jlmiracle 7 #26 January 8, 2007 QuoteElegant solution to a non-existent problem. I may be wrong, but I have never heard of anyone, apart from the tandems, falling out on deployment. Bryn Actually we have lost a few people who fell out of their rigs but only because their chest strap was undone when they left the plane. I will not use a back strap on a sport rig. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #27 January 8, 2007 i know two people who didn't have there chest strap properly and jumped,, they still live to tell the story..Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #28 January 8, 2007 Quotei know two people who didn't have there chest strap properly and jumped,, they still live to tell the story.. Sure. I've seen this as well. I've also taken VERY obese and short people on tandems who haven't fallen out of the harness. Parachutes open without malfunction the majority of the time...but sometimes... Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
douwanto 22 #29 January 8, 2007 I think you may be more suited for BOWLING. Good luck I hope you get that perfect game. You will never be able to get rid of all the risks in skydiving. and if you could what would be the attraction ???? Uncle/GrandPapa Whit Unico Rodriguez # 245 Muff Brother # 2421 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stitch 0 #30 January 8, 2007 Quote You will never be able to get rid of all the risks in skydiving. and if you could what would be the attraction ????You would still be able to blow all your money."No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leapdog 0 #31 January 8, 2007 The Mirage G4 has a very good design. the 2 inch elastic webbing connecting the leg straps to the back pad keeps the leg straps semetrical and up on the legs. You design is elborate it is as simple as keeping the leg straps up and semetrical. use a rig that is sized for you. (lift web mainly) and keep your leg straps tight. Tighten them up before boarding the pane not just before you exit while inthe plane. be ready to jump at all times would be the other reason for tightening them before boarding. In case of Aircraft emergencies. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivexxl 0 #32 January 8, 2007 Seems a bit "Troll-ish"... Stirring the pot and running away. No name, #'s, but knows what we "SHOULD" be doing (his words.) Who are you, and what are you selling? Blog Clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #33 January 8, 2007 I did mean "out the back" of the harness...... BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #34 January 8, 2007 QuoteI did mean "out the back" of the harness...... Bryn Oh I know, I just wanted to make sure the original poster knows they can fall out the front too. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #35 January 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteI did mean "out the back" of the harness...... Bryn No worries. Bryn Oh I know, I just wanted to make sure the original poster knows they can fall out the front too. jJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #36 January 9, 2007 in reply to "I'm developing a portable strap which can be connected to most rigs and also be removed whenever you want," .......................................................... Good luck with it . You'll have to overcome skydivers inherent fear of change unless they see the "good " guys doing it first. Then they will push each other out of the way to be the first on the DZ with your new strap. I've often wondered if the next big step in rig design will morph the straps and liftwebs etc into an actual suit of clothing. Instead of leg-straps as they currently exist the loads could be taken by a much wider set-up that fits you like a very tough set of shorts. Likewise up top the rig could have very short sleeves and a fully enclosed front perhaps persisting with the chest strap for psychological reasons. This rig would have NO holes or gaps for people to fall out of or put things into at the wrong time. It would look more like a well fitting wet-suit than the mess of straps and buckles we are currently stuck with. Of coursed there would be wingsuit versions with their fully integrated rigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #37 January 9, 2007 > Instead of leg-straps as they currently exist the loads could be taken >by a much wider set-up that fits you like a very tough set of shorts. Check out Poynter's book for some old fashioned solid saddles. We got away from them because they were fairly uncomfortable. (You don't _really_ want a pair of shorts, unless you want your genitalia to take a significant part of the opening shock!) >It would look more like a well fitting wet-suit than the mess of straps >and buckles we are currently stuck with. Such an item would look even more like "a mess of straps" than what we have now! I mean, surely you wouldn't trust your life to a zipper, which means you need some additional fasteners. Compared to that, three straps (two of which you need never unthread) is pretty simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #38 January 9, 2007 in reply to "(You don't _really_ want a pair of shorts, unless you want your genitalia to take a significant part of the opening shock!) The idea is to spread the load around ( not just dump it all in the crotch as at moment.) Current (often only optional) wider padded legstraps are already pointing in this direction. Those early Poynter designs were using much less refined materials than are available today no doubt contributing to their discomfort. The current design of leg strap has many disadvantages as well as the male genital squash and female genital pinch if not careful. A more mature and advanced design would be able to deal with these issues. Making the gear more comfortable makes our sport more attractive as our history proves. in reply to "Such an item would look even more like "a mess of straps" than what we have now! I mean, surely you wouldn't trust your life to a zipper, which means you need some additional fasteners. Compared to that, three straps (two of which you need never unthread) is pretty simple. " The current set up is satisfactory but it can certainly be improved upon. It wouldn't have to be a mess of straps, more like a short legged /sleeved one piece wet suit. If anything it would look more integrated and be relatively fool-proof compared to todays rigs which can be put on incorrectly. Any zippers as you mention would not necessarily have to take large loads . Another example of how this may work is using a cloth bag to hold something as opposed to using a string bag . The string bag concentrates the load into smaller areas whereas the cloth bag spreads it out over a larger area-- and things can fall through the gaps in the string. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #39 January 9, 2007 This thread made my day. It's a huuuge mistake people, and none of you experienced folks ever noticed that! I have to go with bodypilot on this one - bowling is your friend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 562 #40 January 9, 2007 All those harness/containers have lower lateral back straps sewn into the bottom edge of the backpad/main container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #41 January 9, 2007 >The idea is to spread the load around ( not just dump it all in the crotch as at moment.) ?? Right now you take the load with the backs of your thighs, which are fairly strong and well padded. There's not much pinch risk unless you have a jumpsuit issue, or have planned poorly. During a brutal opening (10G's or so) you could see an impact of 2000 pounds on those straps, so you want to make sure you're _not_ loading anything delicate. >Those early Poynter designs were using much less refined materials . . . More like much less refined designs. Webbing hasn't changed all that much. (BTW Poynter didn't design em.) Keep in mind that skydiving harnesses are not built to be comfy for a long time under canopy. They are built to be comfortable for up to ten minutes or so. They also have to deal with the following: -very high load openings -enough flexibility that freefall body position is not affected -sufficient retention to prevent the person from falling out of the harness -sufficient adjustability to accommodate changing clothing/weight -sufficient rigidity to keep handles in roughly the right place, and to provide a launch platform for the reserve -ability to be body-steered for higher performance canopies -wearability (i.e. have to be able to lug the thing around for 30 minutes on a hot day) Now, if you just want comfort under canopy, go with a paraglider harness. They are much more reclined, and have a solid saddle so it's a lot more like a chair. Or, if you want better retention, use a full-body climbing or retrieval harness. Or do what a few people are doing and add a belly band. >It wouldn't have to be a mess of straps, more like a short >legged /sleeved one piece wet suit. Hmm. I wouldn't want to do 4-way in such a thing, or wear it on a hot day! And I definitely wouldn't want to try to get out of it after a water landing. Might be good for hop and pops though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #42 January 9, 2007 Yes,, in a safe happy heaven everyone will have that extra strap with dacron lines with big three ring instead of mini ring, and let's be even safter here, no one should pick a canopy more than 1.0 wing loading and no smaller canopy than 150sf, no final approach should be done more than 90, no more jumps anything above 12 mph wind. Those are all the choices we can make everyday to make skydiving safer but why aren't we doing it??? Just like Bill Booth said once, they won't buy it if it doesn't look cool... Yeah you can try to sell that but many people will not choose that option...Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #43 January 9, 2007 QuoteYou will never be able to get rid of all the risks in skydiving. and if you could what would be the attraction ???? Good point, I've thought this myself on occasion especially in relation to claims that incidents damage the sport, I've wondered how much damage would be done if skydiving were seen as perfectly safe. People especially whuffo tandems skydive because it's seen as dangerous and a test of your courage/will. It goes on the to-do list because of this, not in spite of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #44 January 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteYou will never be able to get rid of all the risks in skydiving. and if you could what would be the attraction ???? Good point, I've thought this myself on occasion especially in relation to claims that incidents damage the sport, I've wondered how much damage would be done if skydiving were seen as perfectly safe. People especially whuffo tandems skydive because it's seen as dangerous and a test of your courage/will. It goes on the to-do list because of this, not in spite of it. Incidents due to STUPID mistakes (such as screwing yourself into the ground with a low turn) hurt the sport in the eyes of the public, in my opinion. The whuffos already think we're crazy - hearing about someone slamming in on a low turn doesn't help us with that.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #45 January 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou will never be able to get rid of all the risks in skydiving. and if you could what would be the attraction ???? Good point, I've thought this myself on occasion especially in relation to claims that incidents damage the sport, I've wondered how much damage would be done if skydiving were seen as perfectly safe. People especially whuffo tandems skydive because it's seen as dangerous and a test of your courage/will. It goes on the to-do list because of this, not in spite of it. Incidents due to STUPID mistakes (such as screwing yourself into the ground with a low turn) hurt the sport in the eyes of the public, in my opinion. The whuffos already think we're crazy - hearing about someone slamming in on a low turn doesn't help us with that. They rarely hear that, it's always "the parachute malfunctioned/didn't open" ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #46 January 10, 2007 QuoteThey rarely hear that, it's always "the parachute malfunctioned/didn't open" Good point...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #47 January 10, 2007 Quote Incidents due to STUPID mistakes (such as screwing yourself into the ground with a low turn) hurt the sport in the eyes of the public, in my opinion. The whuffos already think we're crazy - hearing about someone slamming in on a low turn doesn't help us with that. The "public" can't differentiate a stupid mistake from an otherwise not so stupid mistake. In actuality, business always increases after a well publicized accident. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #48 January 10, 2007 QuoteElegant solution to a non-existent problem. I may be wrong, but I have never heard of anyone, apart from the tandems, falling out on deployment. Bryn It has happened before. There was a girl in Louisiana that fell out of her harness a few years ago on a jump. The rig (I think was rented) was way too big for her. Also, some sit-flyers can slip out of their harness easily if their canopy prematurely deploys and they're in the right position for an 'oh shit' moment."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #49 January 10, 2007 >>Also, some sit-flyers can slip out of their harness easily if their canopy prematurely deploys and they're in the right position<< I think you'd also have to add an abnormal opening like a slider left stowed, or something like that, othewise you'll get pulled up right before opening shock . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #50 January 11, 2007 Quote>>Also, some sit-flyers can slip out of their harness easily if their canopy prematurely deploys and they're in the right position<< I think you'd also have to add an abnormal opening like a slider left stowed, or something like that, othewise you'll get pulled up right before opening shock . . . NickD BASE 194 How so? If you're already in a sit, and the legstraps have slipped down...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
