MotherGoose 0 #1 November 6, 2006 I need to know if there are stats out there somewhere that can illustrate the highest malfunction rate of each kind of pack job? At my DZ, we are only allowed to flat pack tandems. The rigs are Sigma and they are elliptical with no packing tabs which would indicate that RWS designed them to be P.R.O. packed, yet we flat pack because I was told the mal rate dropped significantly when the change was made. (at my DZ) If this is an old played out topic, I apologize, but the information is very valuable to me. Please state the tandem system, packing technique and whether or not you agree with your DZ's choice for using this technique. Thanks.You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #2 November 6, 2006 Are you sure they are designed to be PRO packed? I would check out the manual if I were you. Bill Booth has stated on these forums that he believes tandem rigs should always be flat. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2022397;search_string=Tandem%20PRO;#2022285 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotherGoose 0 #3 November 6, 2006 I said it would "indicate" that they are to be P.R.O. packed because there are no packing tabs. This was a very unsubstantiated claim and I take it back. The assumer in me made that statement.You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #4 November 7, 2006 At one dz I packed at, they were pro-packing EZ-384's and kept getting a lot of lineovers, so they switched to flat packing and still got lineovers. They now pro pack them, and still get a lot of lineovers. I'd say the lineover rate was about 1 in 80, but the TMs could clear it 2 out of 3 times. They were just shitty packers though. At another, we were pro packing 384's and were getting lineovers maybe one in 400 jumps. The DZ I pack at now uses SET 400's and I believe they've had 4 tandem mals in the past 6000 jumps. They are pro-packed. All the tandem packers pack very very well. I think using the method of folding the sides of the canopy into the center to keep the lines in the center helps a lot. I sure wouldn't want to try to flat pack those new slippery SET 400's though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #5 November 7, 2006 Vectors with precision mains are always pro packed. Strong with set 400's are "supposed" to be roll packed like it says in the manual but we also pro pack them. My dads racer tandem with a flight concepts 9 cell reserve (used as a main) is flat packed. Hope that helpsNa' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #6 November 7, 2006 I'm wondering if the DZ with the high liveover rate still had the 6 grommet sliders. We had a very high lineover rate at my DZ. We were informed that the 6 6 grommet slider on the 384 could be a factor. They were all changed out to 4 grommets and I don't think there has been a lineover since. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #7 November 7, 2006 Quote Strong with set 400's are "supposed" to be roll packed like it says in the manual,... Please refer to the Strong video 'PRO Packing the SET 400.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parafredo 0 #8 November 7, 2006 One thing we did from the last 3 years,on EZ and Sigma 370 is very simple.We attach all steering lines group with a rubber band on the 2 inner C lines and ever since then,no more line over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #9 November 7, 2006 hmmm. something must of changed. I'm sitting here reading the Strong Dual hawk manual and its giving instuctions how to roll pack the set 400.Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Titanman2789 0 #10 November 7, 2006 Quote I think using the method of folding the sides of the canopy into the center to keep the lines in the center helps a lot. That is how i pack them. fold the sides into the center, pull the top skin out and wrap it around the whole canopy into a nice burrito lookin thing, s-fold it and get it in the bag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J_Cook 0 #11 November 7, 2006 We pro pack all of our tandems, Sigma included, and have only had 1 mal requiring a cutaway in the past 2 years. (2200+ tandems) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #12 November 7, 2006 The Strong reserves are rolled(fold)....the mains are pro packed or flat packed. At least dated back to the 9/98 manual, which is the oldest I've seen. I've seen SET's flat packed and PRO packed. I've seen Icarus canopies PRO packed and flat packed. I can't say I've noticed either one working better than the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #13 November 7, 2006 Its does say in the caption directions for packing the set 400's and Marster reserveNa' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pornstar 0 #14 November 7, 2006 Wolmari-pack to set 400, no malfunctions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Samurai136 0 #15 November 7, 2006 QuoteIts does say in the caption directions for packing the set 400's and Marster reserve Most recent manual I have for Strong is "May 2002 Revision E" Page 20: Pro Packing Procedures for Packing the SET 400/ SET360 Flat packing procedures are on page 31. To the OP: I like to flat pack new SETs until they are broken in and then I'll Pro-pack them. Never noticed any association with malfunctions and packing technique but I have noticed an association between the person packing and malfunctions/ hard openings. Packing tabs are an aid to flat packing. Their presence or absence is no indication of the "proper" packing method. Any parachute can be flat packed. Sometimes I flat pack my sport mains for a change of pace."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 562 #16 November 7, 2006 The August 2004, (Revision F) of the SET 400 manual says to PRO pack them, so we do at Pitt Meadows. We suffer less than one malfunction per 1,000 jumps/year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 136 #17 November 7, 2006 at my DZ we Pro-Pack everything... We jump BT-80's and Sigmasscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Minisuksi 0 #18 November 7, 2006 At my dz we pro pack our tandems and we have had 2 malfunctions in past 10 years and those 2 were both blown up cells in the opening because of hasty packing. We have 3 set400-systems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 60 #19 November 7, 2006 Skydive Las Vegas did 7,000 malfunction-free jumps in a row. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MotherGoose 0 #20 November 7, 2006 Flat packing slippery ZP elliptical's is no fun, but very possible. Rolling the air out, tail to nose before starting is crucial. I've never heard of the technique of stowing the steering lines to C lines, I'm going to look into this, it sounds interesting. We use an elastic to stow the slider to C line, that's pretty common for a little extra snivel.You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sockpuppet 0 #21 November 7, 2006 Quote the mal rate dropped significantly when the change was made. (at my DZ) Was the change in packing method done at the same time as a change in the packer or supervisor. That could explain the mal rate change aswell... ------ Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kissrg 0 #22 November 7, 2006 QuoteAre you sure they are designed to be PRO packed? I would check out the manual if I were you. Bill Booth has stated on these forums that he believes tandem rigs should always be flat. They are talking about pro packing in the new sigma manual. Robert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MotherGoose 0 #23 November 7, 2006 QuoteQuote the mal rate dropped significantly when the change was made. (at my DZ) Was the change in packing method done at the same time as a change in the packer or supervisor. That could explain the mal rate change aswell... Something to consider as well I guess, the change was made before my time, so I can't be certain if the packers changed. QuoteQuoteAre you sure they are designed to be PRO packed? I would check out the manual if I were you. Bill Booth has stated on these forums that he believes tandem rigs should always be flat. They are talking about pro packing in the new sigma manual. Robert This is just it. The manual says to PRO pack, then Mr. Booth says QuoteI'll say it again, If you want to get rid of "line-overs" and drastically lower your chance of nearly every other kind of partial malfunction on tandem mains...the answer is very simple...flat pack. Is anyone else confused ??You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #24 November 7, 2006 QuoteI've never heard of the technique of stowing the steering lines to C lines, I'm going to look into this, it sounds interesting. SOP for canopies with long brake lines such as the SET (http://www.strongparachutes.com/Documents/PDF_Files/DualHawkPN510047LOW.pdf p.19) and Hop (any others?)Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MotherGoose 0 #25 November 7, 2006 So its not SOP for Sigma ???You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Samurai136 0 #15 November 7, 2006 QuoteIts does say in the caption directions for packing the set 400's and Marster reserve Most recent manual I have for Strong is "May 2002 Revision E" Page 20: Pro Packing Procedures for Packing the SET 400/ SET360 Flat packing procedures are on page 31. To the OP: I like to flat pack new SETs until they are broken in and then I'll Pro-pack them. Never noticed any association with malfunctions and packing technique but I have noticed an association between the person packing and malfunctions/ hard openings. Packing tabs are an aid to flat packing. Their presence or absence is no indication of the "proper" packing method. Any parachute can be flat packed. Sometimes I flat pack my sport mains for a change of pace."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 562 #16 November 7, 2006 The August 2004, (Revision F) of the SET 400 manual says to PRO pack them, so we do at Pitt Meadows. We suffer less than one malfunction per 1,000 jumps/year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #17 November 7, 2006 at my DZ we Pro-Pack everything... We jump BT-80's and Sigmasscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Minisuksi 0 #18 November 7, 2006 At my dz we pro pack our tandems and we have had 2 malfunctions in past 10 years and those 2 were both blown up cells in the opening because of hasty packing. We have 3 set400-systems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 60 #19 November 7, 2006 Skydive Las Vegas did 7,000 malfunction-free jumps in a row. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotherGoose 0 #20 November 7, 2006 Flat packing slippery ZP elliptical's is no fun, but very possible. Rolling the air out, tail to nose before starting is crucial. I've never heard of the technique of stowing the steering lines to C lines, I'm going to look into this, it sounds interesting. We use an elastic to stow the slider to C line, that's pretty common for a little extra snivel.You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sockpuppet 0 #21 November 7, 2006 Quote the mal rate dropped significantly when the change was made. (at my DZ) Was the change in packing method done at the same time as a change in the packer or supervisor. That could explain the mal rate change aswell... ------ Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kissrg 0 #22 November 7, 2006 QuoteAre you sure they are designed to be PRO packed? I would check out the manual if I were you. Bill Booth has stated on these forums that he believes tandem rigs should always be flat. They are talking about pro packing in the new sigma manual. Robert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotherGoose 0 #23 November 7, 2006 QuoteQuote the mal rate dropped significantly when the change was made. (at my DZ) Was the change in packing method done at the same time as a change in the packer or supervisor. That could explain the mal rate change aswell... Something to consider as well I guess, the change was made before my time, so I can't be certain if the packers changed. QuoteQuoteAre you sure they are designed to be PRO packed? I would check out the manual if I were you. Bill Booth has stated on these forums that he believes tandem rigs should always be flat. They are talking about pro packing in the new sigma manual. Robert This is just it. The manual says to PRO pack, then Mr. Booth says QuoteI'll say it again, If you want to get rid of "line-overs" and drastically lower your chance of nearly every other kind of partial malfunction on tandem mains...the answer is very simple...flat pack. Is anyone else confused ??You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #24 November 7, 2006 QuoteI've never heard of the technique of stowing the steering lines to C lines, I'm going to look into this, it sounds interesting. SOP for canopies with long brake lines such as the SET (http://www.strongparachutes.com/Documents/PDF_Files/DualHawkPN510047LOW.pdf p.19) and Hop (any others?)Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotherGoose 0 #25 November 7, 2006 So its not SOP for Sigma ???You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
