Safire 2 - Off Student Status

[sraja 0]

Hello

I am planning to purchase a new canopy once I complete my AFP program and get my A license (which is about 4 jumps away). Currently I am on a Sabre 2 230. I have been standing up 7 out of 8 landings and have also had one reserve ride on a PD 218 (stood it up). My instructor recommended I go for the Safire 2 209. Before which I will be trying out a Sabre 2 210 and also demoing the Safire 2 209. My exit weight is approx. 205

I searched these forums but most of the posts are on Safire and not Safire 2. Questions -

1. Anyone got a Safire 2 off student status? What was your experience with it?
2. Anyone transition from a Sabre 2 to a Safire 2? I find the Sabre 2 quite nice to land. I make my landing approach with brakes at my ears and then about 7-8 feet I make the full flare. Will this approach work on a Safire 2?
3. How does Safire 2 209 handle turbulence? The Sabre 2 is bumpy but now i am used to it and dont get scared by that.

Apologize for asking so many questions, probably many of these will be answered when I demo but I thought I'd get the opinion of others as well.

Thanks

[billvon 2,426]

Both are good canopies, and are pretty similar in terms of landings.

I would suggest you also check out the Pilot. The Pilot/Safire 2/Sabre 2 are all quite similar.

[justinb138 0]

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2. Anyone transition from a Sabre 2 to a Safire 2? I find the Sabre 2 quite nice to land. I make my landing approach with brakes at my ears and then about 7-8 feet I make the full flare. Will this approach work on a Safire 2?

The Sabre2 230 and Safire2 209 were the first two canopies I tried out after I got my A.

IMO: Both were fun, Sabre2 had ok openings, Safire2 had great openings. Toggle pressure was lighter on Safire2, and it would turn a little bit faster than the Sabre (probably because of the slightly higer wingloading).

The largest difference I noticed was that the Sabre2 planed out with toggles at about shoulder height, and the Safire2 was a little bit lower than that.

Both great canopies, you just gotta demo them to find out which one you like the best.

• Quote

[DougH 270]

I highly recommend a Pilot for a transition canopy.

They have great openings, on heading, with nice long snivels.

The canopy has great glide and when flown properly will get you back from long spots.

The canopy can be a lot of fun when pushed hard, but very forgiving down low when combined with the use of your brain, and braked turns.

Flares great too.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[kaerodyne 0]

sraja

I suggest you demo them all and jump them as many times as possible before deciding to purchase any of them.

Please feel free to contact me if you would like to demo a Pilot 210, you will be very pleased with the Pilot in openings and general performance and landings.

Indeed the Sabre and Safire are good canopies and compare well against the Pilot.

Karl Meyer
Sales Representative
Aerodyne Research
Office:   1 813 891 6300
Mobile: 1 813 841 2149
[email protected]
www.flyaerodyne.com

[skybytch 259]

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I make my landing approach with brakes at my ears and then about 7-8 feet I make the full flare.

Why do you make your approach with the brakes at your ears?

[sraja 0]

Hello

No real reason why I make my landing approach with brakes at my ears. I am talking about the last 200-250'. I think its partly a psychological comfort that I am slowing down the canopy a bit before touch down (maybe I am - I don't know for sure). During my first few jumps I flew in the canopy in full glide but I couldnt time the flare correctly. This technique seems to work well for me - do you think I am doing something wrong?

Thanks

[sraja 0]

Hello Karl

I will definetly consider evaluating the Pilot as well. I think the store at SDC does have some Pilots for demo, if not I will get in touch with you.

Justin, Bill and Doug - thank you for your inputs. I sincerely appreciate it.

Thanks

[Kris 0]

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This technique seems to work well for me - do you think I am doing something wrong?

Yes. You are doing something wrong and need further coaching. You are actually making it harder for yourself to flare and you are ingraining a bad habit.

Coming in at full speed will give you a more powerful flare than coming in on partial brakes. This will be even more apparent when you transition from a 230 to a 210 like you are planning.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[kaerodyne 0]

sjaja

Thanks for the response, and I look fwd to your feed back on the demo jumps.

If SDC does indeed not have a Pilot (they should) let me know and we'll get one out to you ASAP.

[sraja 0]

Hello Kris

Thanks for pointing this out - I will request my instructor to tape my landings so we can better examine the situation. I will also explain my current landing approach to him and learn from what he has to say. He has asked me to begin aiming for the peas from my next jump - accuracy landing is one of my main goals.

One thing though, and you can probably advise on this, even when I am flaring from my ears on downwards the amount of flare I get makes my canopy kinda 'swoop'. In other words, I get enough of a lift at the end of my flare that I can sense it. I am a tall person, 6'2" with very long arms. Maybe it makes no difference and the approach is still incorrect but thought I'd share this with you.

Thanks

[ockers 0]

Here is a different opinion!

New canopies are a PITA to pack and if you are going for new gear too, you will notice the damage when you stack it a few times!

Find yourself an older set of gear with a safire2/sabre2/pilot and put a heap of jumps on it. Easier to pack, won't matter when you land on your arse and you should be able to sell it for about the same $$ in 6 months or a years time. Chances are you will want to downsize around the same sort of time too!

My 2 cents worth!!

[AllisonH 0]

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Here is a different opinion!

New canopies are a PITA to pack and if you are going for new gear too, you will notice the damage when you stack it a few times!

Find yourself an older set of gear with a safire2/sabre2/pilot and put a heap of jumps on it. Easier to pack, won't matter when you land on your arse and you should be able to sell it for about the same $$ in 6 months or a years time. Chances are you will want to downsize around the same sort of time too!

My 2 cents worth!!

Used gear is great advice for your first rig, but that doesn't mean you can't demo several canopies first to see which one you prefer. You may find that you like them all, which opens up your options for used gear. Or you may find one you don't like, and it's better to find that out before you buy it!

[mattjw916 2]

Safire 2s are good canopies as are Pilots, Sabre _2_s and many others. Any one of them is a good pick off student status when sized appropriately.

I had a Safire 1, and I loved it.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[jaitken 0]

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Currently I am on a Sabre 2 230. I have been standing up 7 out of 8 landings and have also had one reserve ride on a PD 218 (stood it up). My instructor recommended I go for the Safire 2 209. Before which I will be trying out a Sabre 2 210 and also demoing the Safire 2 209. My exit weight is approx. 205
[...]
2. Anyone transition from a Sabre 2 to a Safire 2? I find the Sabre 2 quite nice to land. I make my landing approach with brakes at my ears and then about 7-8 feet I make the full flare. Will this approach work on a Safire 2?
3. How does Safire 2 209 handle turbulence? The Sabre 2 is bumpy but now i am used to it and dont get scared by that.

After getting my A license, I bought a used rig and put a Sabre2 230 in it. Shortly after I hit 100 jumps I bought a new rig and elected to buy a new Safire2 209. Due to an injury this spring that kept me out for almost 6 months (torn muscle in freefall) I haven't jumped much this year, so I've only put 20-25 jumps on the Safire2, but I like it so far. I am about 60lbs heavier than you but I think you'll find the Safire2 to be a great canopy. Packing a brand-new zero-p canopy is a pain in the ass, so I'd definitely agree with the suggestion that you buy one used if possible.

I had a few "abrupt" openings with the Sabre2, but those were likely due to a combination of poor packing technique and body position on my part. Openings on the Safire2 have been great and it's plenty of fun to fly. As for turbulence, I haven't noticed any difference between the two canopies. Demo'ing each of them sounds like a good plan.

Regarding your flare technique, I've only got ~150 jumps so I'm not qualified to give much advice. In general, the more speed you have coming in, the more flare power you have at your disposal. However, you should really take this up with a qualified instructor/coach. I took Brian Germain's canopy class and would highly recommend that you do something similar, then follow it up with additional coaching. In particular, get someone to film your landings and review the video with your instructor.


Jeff

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--Mario Andretti

[brianfry713 0]

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Due to an injury this spring that kept me out for almost 6 months (torn muscle in freefall)

Care to explain how and what exactly you injured?

As far as this thread goes, I like the Sabre 2 better than the Safire 2 or Pilot for swooping or learning to swoop.

[jcbfly 1]

Hi Raj! We met at SDC when you were taking your first few jumps, big congrats on your progress with sky jumping!

I demoed a Safire 2 169 for 7 jumps right after graduating AFP and I liked everything about it, but I also really liked the Sabre 2 170 I used for my last few AFP jumps. I also demoed a Spectre 170 for 8 jumps once I got home to Skydive New Mexico and that's the canopy I wound up buying. For me, the Spectre just felt right in the air. I think I could be very happy flying any of those 3 because they all opened, flew and landed great, but the Spectre just "spoke to me". The fact that the Spectre has a reputation for being forgiving of poor packing also influenced my decision since I really struggled with packing at first. Another contributing factor to my decision was that I really liked the simplicity and reliability of the Spectre's 7 cell design.

That new Zero P Spectre turned out to be an absolute bitch to pack though! For the first few weekends it would take me many tries to bag it every time, and my pack jobs looked like total shyte. However, true to it's reputation, it never spanked me despite my dismal packing skills. I practiced packing it in my living room over and over until I tamed the beast and now I can get it in the bag first time, every time.

So, my advice is just to pick the canopy that feels best, and if you wind up with a slippery new one, then just practice packing until you get it down!

Looking forward to jumping with you next time I get up to SDC! Say Hi to Dave C for me!

JC Brown

[jaitken 0]

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Due to an injury this spring that kept me out for almost 6 months (torn muscle in freefall)

Care to explain how and what exactly you injured?

Sure. While tracking away during an otherwise-uneventful 3-way, I went to wave off and pull. As I reached out with my left hand I felt a "pop" in my left shoulder area. I didn't know it at the time, but I had torn the pectoral muscle away from its attachment point on the upper arm.

Unfortunately, my first reaction wasn't helpful; I instinctively pulled my arm back in towards my body, which caused me to get unstable briefly. After a couple of missed atempts at grabbing the main PC, I hit my hard deck and went straight to the reserve handle (with the injured arm; yeah, that felt good). I was in the saddle by about 1800' and landed without any other complications except that it hurt like hell to steer and flare. A few weeks later I had surgery to have the tendon reattached and began the lengthy rehab process.

After talking to my surgeon (who happens to be one of the team docs for the Redskins), I believe I may have damaged the tendon previously in the weight room. While it's a fairly rare injury, the two most common causes are lifting exercises like the bench press and making a tackle where your arm gets bent backwards. A month or so before the accident I had taken a couple weeks off of lifting due to pain in my left shoulder, so my guess is that it was strained or even partially torn and I managed to tweak it "just right" on that particular skydive.

In any event, the repair seems to be holding up well. I've resumed all normal activites and haven't had any issues. I'm still weaker than I was before the injury but based on my results so far it's just a matter of rebuilding my strength... another six months of lifting and I should be fine.



Jeff

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--Mario Andretti

[Bobajob 0]

That's interesting Jeff, about surgery to have the tendon re-attached. The upper bicep in my left arm hangs down from the shoulder because the tendon broke on a hard opening and my doctor said surgery wasn't possible. I have learned to live with it now as it happened several years ago. Perhaps surgery techniques have changed in recent years?

Bob

[sammielu 3]

I second the idea of buying used canopies. Especially at the 209/210 size, lots of folks downsize out of them as they gain experience in the sport. Demos are great and you can learn what you like, but saving jump money and packing frustration by buying used is something to consider.

While you demo, remember that canopies flare differently (and fly differently, but you'll likely notice it only during landing) and there are many reasons for it: how your rig fits your body, riser length, your arm length, brake line length. Talk to an instructor to understand what I mean, and get yourself into a canopy course ASAP.