How to address someone who has created an unsafe situation.

[DAVE619 0]

I think this is one aspect of our sport that is highly over looked. People are not perfect and everyone makes mistakes, some more frequently than others. These situations need to be addressed in order to keep things safe and sound. There is a certain way to aproach someone after situation like this occurs, and it does not involve curse words and screaming. BE POLITE! aproach the person in a non threating manor, try to smile even though you may want to strangle them. Also try to make a joke or something to further ease the tension of the situation that has taken place. Making a big mistake infront of your peers is embarising and tends to put people on the defensive. Be as non confrontational as possible when asking questions about the persons desisions in the situation that took place. Smile and talk in a calm voice Ensure that they know who to turn to if they have questions in regard to whatever created the unsafe situation, I say this mostly in regard to being unsafe under canopy. Every dropzone has someone with alot of experience, and it is that persons responsiblity to set a positive example for the up and coming groms. They look up to you , so dont be a dick!

[Gawain 0]

I disagree wholeheartedly.

Some situations must not be addressed in a calm, lovey-dovey manner.

Some situations, if serious enough, should be handled with abrupt, hammer-it-through-the-thick-head, style.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Ugali 0]

i agree with Gawain. You can not stand there with a smile and laugh and joke around. its a dangerous hobby this skydiving, and idiots can not be tolerated. to put it simply: THEIR MISTAKE CAN COST YOU YOUR LIFE

Give 'em Hell

Tom, Tom Tom, Tommy, Tom Love

[Squeak 17]

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Some situations, if serious enough, should be handled with abrupt, hammer-it-through-the-thick-head, style.

To prevent something from happening, I would lean towards agreeing here.
After the fact I have rarely seen circumstances where berating someone would be more effective than calmly educating them.
(This of course does not apply to fucktard who already know everything and can not under any circumstances be taught) But I find that these people are largely the minority.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[SarahC07 0]

Forget about what he/she did for a minute and think about the person. Each person handles criticism and correction differently.

It's about how the person will handle what's being said to them.

Now if this person is a repeat offender or has some other character trait that requires you to YELL at them for them to understand you... that's different.

You can calmly and politely explain to someone just how dangerous what they did was. And how angry you are.

I completely agree with what Dave posted.

[Scoop 0]

Maybe thats your military experience talking. They love all that shouting and abusing people until they get it right. It doesn't work in the real world sadly, people just get fucked off.

I'm sure explaining why something may be dangerous or pointing out what may have been overlooked is more constructive. As a newbie I appreciate it when people educate me about things. I like to learn. If I have done something you perceive to be stupid I can honestly say it wasn't done on purpose or with malicious intent. If I am totally oblivious to whatever nearly happened then pull me to one side and explain. When you start doing the whole Parent -> Child thing it really doesn't work.

[IanHarrop 37]

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I think this is one aspect of our sport that is highly over looked. People are not perfect and everyone makes mistakes, some more frequently than others. These situations need to be addressed in order to keep things safe and sound. There is a certain way to aproach someone after situation like this occurs, and it does not involve curse words and screaming. BE POLITE! aproach the person in a non threating manor, try to smile even though you may want to strangle them. Also try to make a joke or something to further ease the tension of the situation that has taken place. Making a big mistake infront of your peers is embarising and tends to put people on the defensive. Be as non confrontational as possible when asking questions about the persons desisions in the situation that took place. Smile and talk in a calm voice Ensure that they know who to turn to if they have questions in regard to whatever created the unsafe situation, I say this mostly in regard to being unsafe under canopy. Every dropzone has someone with alot of experience, and it is that persons responsiblity to set a positive example for the up and coming groms. They look up to you , so dont be a dick!

Agree and add:

Reprimand in private, Praise in public.

Nothing makes people more defensive than having their faults aired in public. So just ask to speak to them and step away from other people and speak at a reasonable volume.


BTW, What did you do that got you verbally assaulted?

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[DAVE619 0]

Agree and add:

Reprimand in private, Praise in public.

Nothing makes people more defensive than having their faults aired in public. So just ask to speak to them and step away from other people and speak at a reasonable volume.


BTW, What did you do that got you verbally assaulted?

[popsjumper 2]

Yelling and screaming is most often counter-productive.
While you are yelling, the listener is thinking about what an asshole you are and not listening to the content of your presentation.

Educate with style, not brute force.

Exception previously noted with respect to the skygod...which should also be followed up by a banning from the DZ.

Why are DZOs so reluctant to kick off the idiot that repeatedly screws with your skydiving health?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Sutton 0]

Well, I am going to have to disagree with you as well. I think that if you crack jokes about it and whatnot, its going to water down the seriousness. With something like that, you need to approach them in a very strict manner. That doesn't mean that you have to yell or curse or anything, but you have to let them know that they are putting everyone else in danger, and thats not cool

-Sutton

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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I disagree wholeheartedly. Some situations must not be addressed in a calm, lovey-dovey manner. Some situations, if serious enough, should be handled with abrupt, hammer-it-through-the-thick-head, style.

I totally agree with Max, but maybe that's because we are routinely put in situations where you simply cannot let stupid mistakes slide or people end up dead. I have been accused a bunch of time of being a total asshole and I really don't care. If something truly demands attention, I will gladly step up and be the bad guy. Most of the time you end up getting thanked by the person for setting them straight.

Chuck

[warpedskydiver 0]

I concur with you, serious enough occurances are to be dealt with in any mannaer that will get results.

That may even involve percussion tuning, if it was serious enough.


Muzzle sweep the back of your team mates head and see you don't get a love tap upside your head.

[Thanatos340 1]

I prefer the Carrot and the Stick approach.

If they really piss you off, Shove the carrot up their ass and Beat them with the stick. Works everytime.

[2fat2fly 0]

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I have been accused a bunch of time of being a total asshole and I really don't care.

I don't know you from Adam's housecat, but reading the advice that you give-I expect that you "being the bad guy" is firm correction, not verbal abuse. You probably don't spend 30 minutes yelling at someone and calling them stupid before you get in to the thing that they did and why it was wrong. I would picture you as more of a "That was dumb, this is why". I might be wrong.

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

[ChrisL 2]

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I disagree wholeheartedly.

Some situations must not be addressed in a calm, lovey-dovey manner.

Some situations, if serious enough, should be handled with abrupt, hammer-it-through-the-thick-head, style.

Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Even skygods.

If I screwed up and someone approached me in this aggressive, loud, confrontational, and humiliating fashion, I would hurt them.

Give respect, get respect in return. It's as simple as that.

An old lady screwed up a few weeks ago and rear ended me on the road.
Should I have gotten all up in her face because she did something unsafe that could have resulted in me being injured?

Grow up.

__

My mighty steed

[Richards 0]

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Yelling and screaming is most often counter-productive.
While you are yelling, the listener is thinking about what an asshole you are and not listening to the content of your presentation.

Educate with style, not brute force.

Said perfectly. I second that.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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[piisfish 135]

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Most of the time you end up getting thanked by the person for setting them straight

some people are willing to be educated/to learn, even if it is from their own mistakes. Some other people will never admit they can do anything wrong.

They deserve different treatments.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[livendive 8]

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I disagree wholeheartedly. Some situations must not be addressed in a calm, lovey-dovey manner. Some situations, if serious enough, should be handled with abrupt, hammer-it-through-the-thick-head, style.

I totally agree with Max, but maybe that's because we are routinely put in situations where you simply cannot let stupid mistakes slide or people end up dead. I have been accused a bunch of time of being a total asshole and I really don't care. If something truly demands attention, I will gladly step up and be the bad guy. Most of the time you end up getting thanked by the person for setting them straight.

What he said. If it's a novice, and they honestly didn't know any better, I'll approach them privately and we'll have a reasonable talk about it. If it's someone with some experience who made a rare mistake, they'll probably get the same treatment. But if it's someone who's a frequent offender that's gotten the kit gloves before, or showing blatant disregard for others' safety, or intentionally being stupid to please a crowd, a bit of humiliation can be an effective taskmaster. Light, public joking about serious breaches of safety can make them seem light and funny, encouraging an environment in which such acts are seen as positive attention-getters. That cycle has to be nipped right in the bud.

Edit to add: On the other hand, see attached.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[masterblaster72 0]

On my 20-x jump I went into final a bit high and sashayed over the landing area to lose altitude and land in the landing area. Once I picked up my canopy some guy came rushing over to me and called me a f.cking moron and told me to look around before doing something that stupid -- he was going into final behind me as I was doing my s-turns.

He went on for over a minute about how stupid I was in doing what I did. He would have gone on longer had I not acknowledged it and apologized.

It was a real wake-up call, and gave me a different perspective on things. Not only can I f.ck myself up, but I can f.ck someone else up if I am not careful enough. I wouldn't be able to live with that. It taught me a lesson and I've been much more careful since.

I never saw him again, but if I do I will remind him of the incident and thank him for being an a-hole about it.

Sometimes a harsh scolding can be very effective and is quite called for.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Brian425 0]

Yelling and being abrupt will get you nowhere. Most people who jump out of planes are not wallflowers. They will simply yell back.

Pulling someone to the side and talking/educating them will get far more results. When you are doing something, you do not see it from an observer's perspective. Education is the way to go.

If that fails, buy their name in Bounce Bingo. Somehow that always get their attention.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[DAVE619 0]

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On my 20-x jump I went into final a bit high and sashayed over the landing area to lose altitude and land in the landing area. Once I picked up my canopy some guy came rushing over to me and called me a f.cking moron and told me to look around before doing something that stupid -- he was going into final behind me as I was doing my s-turns.

He went on for over a minute about how stupid I was in doing what I did. He would have gone on longer had I not acknowledged it and apologized.

It was a real wake-up call, and gave me a different perspective on things. Not only can I f.ck myself up, but I can f.ck someone else up if I am not careful enough. I wouldn't be able to live with that. It taught me a lesson and I've been much more careful since.

I never saw him again, but if I do I will remind him of the incident and thank him for being an a-hole about it.

Sometimes a harsh scolding can be very effective and is quite called for.

Dont you think that if he took you aside and explained the situation to you and how serious it was that the lesson would have been just as effective? There was no reason for him to talk to you in the way that he did. You were a student and did not know any better. I can tell you that if I ever witness anyone do that to a student I will definately have words with that person. They need to know that this is wrong and people are not to be treated with disrespect. I dont care if they have a bazillion jumps, that does not give them the right to treat somebody in such a manor!

[waltappel 1]

IMO it depends on the attitude of the jumper who created the unsafe situation. There is no need to thoroughly ream someone out if they are being receptive to what you are saying. In fact, I'd consider it very counterproductive to be an asshole about it.

Sometimes people screw up without hurting themselves or anyone else and they take it as a wakeup call. I'm not going to be disrespectful to them.

Sometimes people screw up because they didn't know better. Again, as long as they're receptive to constructive criticism, I see no problem.

If someone is consistently screwing up in a way that *only* puts themselves at risk and won't listen to constructive criticism, I don't see any problem with that either. Those problems tend to take care of themselves. The one exception I can think of is if someone I care about is doing something that will get them hurt. I'm not going to let them off easy and I hope they would jump on my case if I were doing something stupid that could get me hurt.

It's the very rare person who puts others at risk and doesn't care that gets under my skin. Even then, I don't know that there is anything gained by reaming them out. They just need to be grounded.

Walt

[ryno1972 0]

That is pretty important stuff you bring up. I think another important aspect is to approach the person one on one. Do not do it in front of other people, that will ease the urge for the offender to get defensive.

I know a few people that will correct someone or point out a mistake in front of the whole world and make a point to let EVERYONE know that they are giving advice or saw something out of whack. I think people like that think they are going to look better.

glad to be here!!