Rainbo 0 #76 March 28, 2007 I'm with you brother, been around and watched a lot of friends do sick shit to themselves and others in the name of fun. My game has changed over the years also but I still think that it someone else who will take me out, somewhere, somehow... As for telling the truth to those coming into the sport, they deserve to understand so they can make the right choice, but from a DZO's perspective that does not necessarily pay the bills, know what I mea.Rainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLKSKY 0 #77 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe Dublin boogie didn't kill anyone--an arrogant, selfish son-of-a-bitch whose need for thrills outweighed his desire to not put his fellow jumpers at risk killed himself and another jumper, though. No, a skydiver and a good man made a mistake and used bad judgement - that's undeniable. I'd venture a guess though that Danny (and Bob for that matter) accomplished more in their lives than most of us could ever dream. For the sport, for others and for their own personal goals. While his mistakes were undeniable (and I call him out on it daily), your comment attempts to gloss over a great man who offered everyone who'd let him everything he had. Your comment's reflection on what exactly you have to offer though.....that I'm not so sure about. Feel free to call his actions into question, but to call his character into question will meet with the highest resistance from me. Ian Sorry Ian i disagree. Danny was told on numerous occasions not to swoop in traffic. He had the personna that it would never happen to him HEY whos your Danny! What danny did was utter sellfishness, needing that last swoop. Not taking any other skydiver into consideration. He may of been a great guy but he will always be the guy responsible for killing a decent human being. What happened at Dublin was a total waste. This will happen again because there are other sellfish bastards out there that have the WON'T HAPPEN TO ME attitude. Sorry Skinny and Walt, but I am with Ian on this one. Danny made a HUGE fucked up decision to swoop and he is dead and so is Bob. We have picked apart the incident to it's tinyest detail. So come on, lets just learn from it folks and stop swooping in traffic. Separate landing areas--maybe even separate loads for those who would like to swoop. However, the name calling is just not necessary. We are all greiving here the tremendous losses, but the insults do not enlighten anybody to prevent any incidents like this to occur again, nor does it foster any type of healing. (forgiveness does) And ps--he was MY Danny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #78 March 28, 2007 QuoteIf your state doesn't have a turbin DZ then you are just part of a taliban regime Asshole ... I'll "Allah Akbar" you the next time I see you. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ORANGENBLUE 0 #79 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote I agree that there is a time and a place for it, and it's not at a boogie. But expecting 300+ possibly uncurrent skydivers to a boogie, putting 70+ of them in the air at the same time and giving them the option of two football field sized landing areas is the start of an incident report. And is just one of the continually smaller boxes we put ourselves into just before the incident occurs. And you will notice that I do use the word incident. We put ourselves into smaller airspace, we put ourselves with more people, we put ourselves with faster canopies... When you investigates an incident how often is there just one issue that lead to the pain at the end. We both know that it is usually more than one thing and that they usually compound themselves. Well I just listed a few above and how about lower experience levels in the same air, multiple aircraft in the same air, and the box gets smaller and soon there is no more room in the box and then comes the pain. We do need to enforce rules but we also as individuals need to think about what environment we are going to be putting ourselves in and make the right decision for ourselves, that being said, I have always known that my life is more in the hands of those around me than in my own up there, and I accept that. I think that as I get older in this sport, I get more scared by that and it's why my skydiving changes to follow suit. It's why I pass on the sometimes zoo loads, and don't attend the boogies. It's why people wonder why I do so many hop and pops, or high altitude deployments. I love skydiving with people, but no one wants to think about the dangerous aspects of it. "Everyone else is out to kill you" is what an instructor told me once. Now I've been chastised by an employer for being too "Sport Death" in what I tell students. word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #80 March 28, 2007 There was a time, thirty years ago, when you went to boogie EXPECTING to see somebody go in. And sure enough somebody would. Of course back then they did it without benefit of an open canopy, so the styles have changed somewhat. Hence the phrase "Boogie 'til ya bounce !" Serious discussionwise though, we're way too social a sport to ban boogies. This is a sport where we're all willing to assume a certain amount of risk to have a good time and boogies can be fantastic. Right now of course the huge controversy is over the recent spate of canopy collision and near collsion deaths, at boogies. This is just a little like the argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", whereas maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle, i.e. "people with guns kill people" ? Everybody's emotions are pretty heated right now. A few careless people - and one reckless person in particular - have brought the shit down upon us all. As a nonswooping relative worker, I feel a definite amount of relief that some of the most egregious bullshit simply won't be tolerated anymore. I already avoid landing on the grass strip at Perris and even treat it like another runway to cross - quickly, because somebody got his jaw ripped off his face by some canopy lines last year. JP, I think cooler heads are going to prevail and that something real will be worked out. But it's not going to happen overnight, right now the memories and the emotions are running too hot. I would like to hear a well thought out alternative from the swooping community besides just "education", which is practically meaningless since it's not mandatory and usually way too damned expensive. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #81 March 28, 2007 QuoteDiscuss. Just ban skydiving. It's a stupid way to spend your weekend. Seriously. The downside of what we do is the risk of an early and unpleasant death from sudden impact trauma. Thats's the coin we pay for the high. If you can't handle it, the door to leave is always open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #82 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteDiscuss. Just ban skydiving. It's a stupid way to spend your weekend. Seriously. The downside of what we do is the risk of an early and unpleasant death from sudden impact trauma. Thats's the coin we pay for the high. If you can't handle it, the door to leave is always open. I was waiting for a post like this . . .simply because I think it's worth it.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #83 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteDiscuss. Just ban skydiving. It's a stupid way to spend your weekend. Seriously. The downside of what we do is the risk of an early and unpleasant death from sudden impact trauma. Yeah, but it seems so much more acceptable to me if it is from my own screwup and I don't take anyone with me. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #84 March 28, 2007 Actually the door to leave is usually closed, at least at the start. Then they open it, then I leave, but the door comes back and I have to do it all over again...Rainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carpediem 0 #85 March 28, 2007 Quoteall these boogies happened at DZ's ...maybe we should ban DZ's? Discuss. I broke my ankle stepping off a curb once. We should ban curbs too Those who do, can't explain. Those who don't, can't understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #86 March 28, 2007 Quote I broke my ankle stepping off a curb once. We should ban curbs too Cute, but that doesn't seem to be the point that this thread is trying to get across. Now if you picked a particularly high curb, and then tried to do some dumbass move like a backwards monkey flip with a twist off of it then you might be on to something. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #87 March 28, 2007 noice...very.... best post in thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carpediem 0 #88 March 28, 2007 QuoteNow if you picked a particularly high curb, and then tried to do some dumbass move like a backwards monkey flip with a twist off of it then you might be on to something. Actually I did, but it was a low curb, that's what got me. Getting too stupid too low Those who do, can't explain. Those who don't, can't understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pullhigh 0 #89 March 28, 2007 Boogies don't kill people, people kill people.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #90 March 28, 2007 your right it will not help...Lets say you come across a very erratic person behind a steering wheel of a car. You keep telling this person that they need to slow down. Time and time again they say its ok i am a good driver.. Then all of a sudden this person kills your best friend or your family member. Should we just put this down to an accident or put it down to that person was too arrogant for their own good. Swooping is not killing innocent people its the arrogant self centred pilots that think they are invincible. Sorry, but that is how Danny saw himself.http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #91 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe Dublin boogie didn't kill anyone--an arrogant, selfish son-of-a-bitch whose need for thrills outweighed his desire to not put his fellow jumpers at risk killed himself and another jumper, though. Walt Easy man. Arrogant yes, selfish son of a bitch, nope. He made a fucked up mistake and paid for it with both his life and Bob's life. Name calling not necessary. I find this extremely ironic. A month ago, if you walked up to Danny and said, "You know what, you are an arrogant, selfish son-of-a-bitch!!!" He'd probably just look at you, smile that big smile and say, "That's Mr. Arrogant, Selfish Son-Of-A-Bitch to you, or just call me Mr. Asshole for short!!!" Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #92 March 28, 2007 The discussions this week really needed to happen...I'm so relieved that we are talking about safety, landing patterns and degrees (90s, 180s, 270s,etc) of swooping, etc..it's so long overdue IMO... In regards to boogies...it is only an increase in the number of jumpers landing into the LZ at the same time and # of jumpships in the air full of jumpers back to back...that's really the only difference...but IMO, it's ATTITUDE which needs adjustment and things would be very different as far as our incidents forum. If we all FOCUS on our surroundings and keep our heads on a swivel and know where everyone is at all times, then we could avoid so much of these incidents. Tunnel vision is detrimental to this sport. _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HillerMyLife 0 #93 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteHOWEVER my home DZ is one of the busier as far as jump numbers and canopy traffic and we routinely have to deal with 10+ canopys in the air on any given jump. 10!!!!!!!!!!! How do you guys manage with that much traffic. I have seen more then 10 jumpers in the air before at a DZ that only flys a single C-182. Easy there killer...I said 10...wait for it...wait for it...PLUS!!! Holy shit we've gotten to the bottom of this one!! And I woulda gotten away with it if it hadn't been for you damn kids!! Seriously though last weekend we had both Otters and the Skyvan in full effect...so yeah 10+ is just a way of covering the low end.Someday Never Comes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #94 March 28, 2007 Ban people, They are killing boogies. Fixed it for ya.~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #95 March 28, 2007 ***Your comment's reflection on what exactly you have to offer though.....that I'm not so sure about. __________________________________________________Quote While some may not "get" what he has to offer by his comments, I can assure you he offered up more than the average person would even dare to on that horrible day in Dublin as well as many days after.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #96 March 28, 2007 QuoteDiscuss. I am very heartened to see the outpouring of viewpoints in this and the other threads in the past week. It's sad that it took a really stupid selfish accident that killed two people to bring things to a head, but sometimes things will sit until something outrageous happens. I continue to go through life as the eternal optimist, hoping and believing that the creative solutions are out there and all we need is the right people who are thinking outside the box to find those solutions and convince the rest of us. And that's how I feel about the whole swooping issue. Swooping is beautiful. I don't do it, but anyone who has ever watched the PD Factory Team in action has got to have felt inspired to see real artistry in motion. Now of course not all swoopers are on that level, anymore than the rest of us are on Airspeed or the X Team's level. Swooping has it's place and we need to recognize that. But right now things are not good and they haven't been good for a while. Way too many people are getting killed. Are we supposed to put up with another 18 or 24 more fatalities like this for the rest of the year, on top of the usual dumb stuff, low cutaways, hooking into the ground, landing in power lines, that always kill off a few more of us ? It seems there's a groundswell of opinion saying "hell no" to that idea, and at least for now I think it's long overdue. I'm really hoping that cooler heads with some creative ideas will come up with something that really works. But first, the immediate crisis - and it IS a crisis - has to be dealt with. The collision fatalities may not be eliminated, but they just have to be drastically reduced or there will be hell to pay for ALL of us, not just the swoopers. We have to get our "shit" together before we can move to the next step for OUR sport, or else that next step is going to be dictated to us "for our own good" by our elected public servants. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #97 March 28, 2007 Boogies don't kill people..........People kill people. Lets ban people! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #98 March 28, 2007 QuoteLOL ... just ask one of my CO friends who got into a night time drunken golf cart accident back in '03 when he drove his cart into a fire hydrant hidden by some vegitation. He broke some ribs, a girl in the front seat apparently broke her wrist and two dudes sitting on the back of the golf cart got a bad case of whip lash. The WFFC was not a safe event.to me it's not that the WFFC is not a safe event, it's people who are so drunk/stooopid/whatever that they manage to crash a golfcart. I thought this could only happen in Jackass The Movie. scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityJunky 0 #99 March 28, 2007 QuoteBoogies don't kill people..........People kill people. Lets ban people! Fucker, beat me to it! *My Inner Child is A Fucking Prick Too! *Everyones entitled to be stupid but you are abusing the priviledge *Well I'd love to stay & chat, But youre a total Bitch! {Stewie} Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #100 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuotePeople don't kill people - Guns and 270's do. And boogies ... don't forget the boobies and boogies. They definitely kill people ... along with the guns and the 270s.and life... Living too long kills. Let's ban life. Oooh wait .. Let's ban banning. At least the Brits had a nice song about this : Anarchy in the UK scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 4 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
tbrown 26 #96 March 28, 2007 QuoteDiscuss. I am very heartened to see the outpouring of viewpoints in this and the other threads in the past week. It's sad that it took a really stupid selfish accident that killed two people to bring things to a head, but sometimes things will sit until something outrageous happens. I continue to go through life as the eternal optimist, hoping and believing that the creative solutions are out there and all we need is the right people who are thinking outside the box to find those solutions and convince the rest of us. And that's how I feel about the whole swooping issue. Swooping is beautiful. I don't do it, but anyone who has ever watched the PD Factory Team in action has got to have felt inspired to see real artistry in motion. Now of course not all swoopers are on that level, anymore than the rest of us are on Airspeed or the X Team's level. Swooping has it's place and we need to recognize that. But right now things are not good and they haven't been good for a while. Way too many people are getting killed. Are we supposed to put up with another 18 or 24 more fatalities like this for the rest of the year, on top of the usual dumb stuff, low cutaways, hooking into the ground, landing in power lines, that always kill off a few more of us ? It seems there's a groundswell of opinion saying "hell no" to that idea, and at least for now I think it's long overdue. I'm really hoping that cooler heads with some creative ideas will come up with something that really works. But first, the immediate crisis - and it IS a crisis - has to be dealt with. The collision fatalities may not be eliminated, but they just have to be drastically reduced or there will be hell to pay for ALL of us, not just the swoopers. We have to get our "shit" together before we can move to the next step for OUR sport, or else that next step is going to be dictated to us "for our own good" by our elected public servants. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #97 March 28, 2007 Boogies don't kill people..........People kill people. Lets ban people! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #98 March 28, 2007 QuoteLOL ... just ask one of my CO friends who got into a night time drunken golf cart accident back in '03 when he drove his cart into a fire hydrant hidden by some vegitation. He broke some ribs, a girl in the front seat apparently broke her wrist and two dudes sitting on the back of the golf cart got a bad case of whip lash. The WFFC was not a safe event.to me it's not that the WFFC is not a safe event, it's people who are so drunk/stooopid/whatever that they manage to crash a golfcart. I thought this could only happen in Jackass The Movie. scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityJunky 0 #99 March 28, 2007 QuoteBoogies don't kill people..........People kill people. Lets ban people! Fucker, beat me to it! *My Inner Child is A Fucking Prick Too! *Everyones entitled to be stupid but you are abusing the priviledge *Well I'd love to stay & chat, But youre a total Bitch! {Stewie} Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #100 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuotePeople don't kill people - Guns and 270's do. And boogies ... don't forget the boobies and boogies. They definitely kill people ... along with the guns and the 270s.and life... Living too long kills. Let's ban life. Oooh wait .. Let's ban banning. At least the Brits had a nice song about this : Anarchy in the UK scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
