Report: Dacron lines on Stiletto

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Report: Dacron lines on Stiletto

I had my Stilletto relined with Dacron because:
1. I got tired of the dimensional changes with wear.
2. To give me even softer openings.

I don't have too many jumps on it yet, but thought I would report on it in case someone else has considered doing this.

(Note: I already have a larger than stock slider on it, so the changes described are from the lines only.)

The openings are simply phenomenal (to me).

It is in the "sniveling" stage about 1-2 seconds longer and "wanders" back and forth a bit more, (which to me does not seem unusual, since it has more time in which to do this.) It still opens on heading.

The slider stays up near the top of the lines for 1-2 seconds longer after the canopy has done most of the spreading, and then it moves down the lines much slower than when it had Spectra lines. (I would think that this will cause less wear in general on the lines over time.)

We'll see what happens as the lines wear.

The flight characteristics changes are very small. It "seems" a bit slower in flight and during turns, (but this is very subjective.) I don't (seem to) notice any difference on landing.

I also jump 3 large parachutes so going back and forth between them and the Stiletto is going to make it difficult to "feel" the difference. And after a few more jumps on it, the "feel" of the Spectra lines will be gone, and further comparison will be useless anyway.

[marinho 0]

Hi Peek,
Just to add to your post. We're the official rigging services for the WFFC and Norman Kent, the official cameraman. I did some work on both of his canopies and he has 2 stilettos with dacron lines! He carries 24 Lbs of video equipment on his head. He definitely cannot play with hard openings!
Just more info!
Cheers,

Gus Marinho

[riggerrob 561]

Just a caution: closely inspect your stabilizers and slider stops.
I have plenty of experience with SET 400 tandem canopies which often have 3 to 8 seconds of "slider fall" before their sliders come down the lines.
When the slider vibrates - a the top of the lines - it frays slider stops. I usually have to replace two or three slider stops whenever I re-line a SET 400 ( at the 300 to 350 jump interval recommended by Strong Enterprises).
Fortunately, SET slider stops hang below the stabilizers and are easy to replace.
If you let lines stretch/shrink badly out of trim, you can also suffer from A line attachment tapes fraying.

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It was a PD reline job and they replaced 4 slider stops and material in the area (patches.) It would seem this happens to canopies that have a number of jumps on them and open medium to slowly to begin with. Interesting, and it only makes sense.

[JohnRich 4]

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I had my Stilletto relined with Dacron because:
1. I got tired of the dimensional changes with wear.
2. To give me even softer openings.

But... but... Dacron is so un-cool!

[katzurki 0]

Not if it's black! Or red!

[masterrigger1 2]

Gary.
We have lined a couple of Stilettos with 525 Dacron in the past. The forward speed is affected, but to a point to where it becomes unnoticable over time, just as you stated.

The problem comes from center cell "A" line stretch.
As they elongate a couple of things happen.
1. The snivels become longer.

2. The canopy wants to open off heading more.

The solution is to watch the elongation and when it becomes 3/4 to 1 inch from nominal(300-400 jumps), have them readjusted to nominal length.


I think Dacron on the larger sizes is a good choice overall IMHO.


BS,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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The problem comes from center cell "A" line stretch. As they elongate...

That's a new one on me. It the line set is built with even tension on all lines, how is any particular line going to stretch more than another?

I've seen GP and FCI Mantas with 2000 jumps that are still in trim.

[skymedic 0]

Gary...I have Dacron on my Stiletto. Openings are like gooey butter. Now I see why norman kent jumps em that way.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[JerryBaumchen 1,068]

Hi peek,

I 'remember' something from Para-Flite many years ago that said that the center 'A' lines took a greater share of the load. Greater being more than the other lines.

Jerry

[masterrigger1 2]

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I've seen GP and FCI Mantas with 2000 jumps that are still in trim.

Not with the same lines!

Jerry B. summed it up very well. The center cell is always getting the inital load during inflation.
With Dacron lines, the center cell always elongates more than the outside ones.


Measure the overall length now and again in about 250 jumps. You will be surprised at the results.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

The Golden Knights 8-way team (which also then emcompassed both four-way teams) got their first Stillettos (after trading from Sabres) with Dacron. Afther that first year, they decided they wanted Microline. It was then that they started snapping lines and having shit openings. That same year, they ordered replacement canopies with Dacron and had all their microline canopies changed to Dacron. This was back when they all packed their own mains though, and everyone that I can remember flat-packed their ST's (and all their previous mains). Anyway, Dacron is the far better choice for someone looking for a smoother opening (because of the "give" in those lines), but most teams opt for the smaller lines these days strictly for vanity. Ultimately, what's the point of using tiny lines on your main and having shit openings if you need to wear ten pounds of lead for team jumps. It's especially pointless when you don't swoop anything but the beer line.

Chuck

Jumping an Excallibur when you were shitting green.

[marinho 0]

SkymonkeyONE, always a wise man!!!!!! Cheers for you brow
I hope you guys are doing fine at your new temporary place. I'm coming over to visit you very soon!!!!!!
What about those that order the latest type of lines for more performance, but they use freefly(baggy) suits for swooping!
Cheers,

Gus Marinho

[riggerrob 561]

Similarly, just as manufacturers perfected micro-lines and ZP fabric to make tiny canopies practical, harness manufacturers added hip rings, chest rings and extra hard housings to bring the weight of rigs back up to standard.
Hee!
Hee!

[riggerrob 561]

The moral of that story is: "If you pack sloppily, buy Dacron lines."

[CrazyL 0]

Dacron lines were the best thing that ever happened to my Sabre 120 ( the old model ), Relined in 1997 with 525 Dacron and continuous center A lines. Opens in about 400-500 ft soft and cushy. Has yet to snap open like it used to with spectra line. My Sabre 120 is a downplane whore, and a dirty low hooker, flies backwards , and spins around like a helicopter prop. There is an old wise jumper out in Perris who i've relined his Stilleto's with the Dacron line. He's been using Dacron for many years as well. I also have 5 mains that i can jump on any given skydive. Some with spectra, vectran, or both.

[Deuce 1]

I relined my Spectres in Dacron and really can't tell the difference. The slider hangs up more.

Hey, MonoUno, I like that "when you were shitting green" thing. I'll be using that.

[CrazyL 0]

Ya, it makes since to me that there would not be much difference with Dacron vs. spaectra on your Spectre canopy. The Spectre opens slow with Spectra lines. With Dacron , maybe a little slower w/ slider hang. There is a much more noticable difference on the sabre(old model), the Dacron on my Sabre resolved the old Sabre slam. Enjoy

[marks 0]

Quote

My Sabre 120 is a downplane whore, and a dirty low hooker, flies backwards , and spins around like a helicopter prop.

hahaha, crazy larry.

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

The Golden Knights 8-way team (which also then emcompassed both four-way teams) got their first Stillettos (after trading from Sabres) with Dacron. Afther that first year, they decided they wanted Microline. It was then that they started snapping lines and having shit openings.

Yes, they did! But that was with 500 lb. Spectra lined canopies. That stuff is terrible!

Not all went with the Dacron after that. I know Joe Trinko, Darren Schuster, and maybe a couple of others still used 725 Spectra.

But you are right, most of them went back to Dacron.

I just got back in from doing some military training and testing.
I noticed that all of the"special" teams are still using Dacron on their canoies as well.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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Quote

Jerry B. summed it up very well. The center cell is always getting the inital load during inflation. With Dacron lines, the center cell always elongates more than the outside ones. Measure the overall length now and again in about 250 jumps. You will be surprised at the results.

OK, it's 250 jumps later and no noticeable change in the trim.....