lkolkin 0 #51 August 5, 2004 See this forumn http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=614804;search_string=whuffo;#614804 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
inearnest 0 #52 August 5, 2004 Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice...... [url]--- "Once you jump. you'll never look up at the sky the same way again." Peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #53 August 5, 2004 QuoteNow, what is everyone going to do to make sure it isn't them this year? Put my pocket bike back in the trunk of the car after the sun goes down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #54 August 5, 2004 QuoteQuoteNow, what is everyone going to do to make sure it isn't them this year? Put my pocket bike back in the trunk of the car after the sun goes down. And the sheep?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #55 August 5, 2004 Quote Who are "they"? Especially after almost 900 jumps and 9 years. The dangers are somewhat downplayed to tandems and students, because it's not a good idea to scare the crap out of them(they gotta perform and keep cool headed) and they're being looked after pretty heavily anyway. Instructors are working to build your confidence up, not tear it down. It usually takes watching a few people hammering it into the ground to sort of have it sink in that the sport is more dangerous than what your first impression was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davedlg 0 #56 August 5, 2004 Some Quick statistics for skydiving vs. driving: Roughly 30 fatilities per year in over 3 million jumps equates to about 1 fatality in every 100,000 skydives. The fatal accident rate for passenger vehicles is about 1.5 in every 100 million vehicle miles. This is about 1 fatlity every 65 million vehicle miles. This roughly works out to each skydive being about the same risk as driving a car 650 miles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #57 August 5, 2004 QuoteNext to politics, religion, guns, high wingloading and AADs, there is likely no other hotter topic on DZ.COM when it comes to opinions. You forgot RSL's"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #58 August 5, 2004 I think that comparisons like that just encourage complacency. Nearly everyone drives a car. If nearly everyone skydived I don't think the fatality ratio would be that close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #59 August 5, 2004 QuoteI think that comparisons like that just encourage complacency. Nearly everyone drives a car. If nearly everyone skydived I don't think the fatality ratio would be that close. I don't think the ratio is that close (I don't see that as encouraging complacency - actually it sounds to me like it kills the "Which is safer?" argument) - what are you more likely to do? Make 10 jumps in a week? or drive 6500 miles during that week? I'd make 10 jumps and maybe drive 300 miles... so I'm about 20 times more likely to die skydiving than driving... if I'm reading that right... and I might not be because I'm tired and still at work. it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #60 August 5, 2004 There are a lot of dumbass people driving cars. Imagine them under a parachute. I still think the ratio wouldn't be that close. Most of the time the point of that arguement is to show how safe skydiving is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #61 August 5, 2004 Quotedrive 6500 miles during that whole week? Whew! Then I am lucky! I've done that many miles in a week a few times over the last year! Guess it wasn't my time! _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davedlg 0 #62 August 5, 2004 650 miles is 10 hours of driving! Think of how many times you "save your life" in those 10 hours by making decisions to hit the brakes, steer around curves, miss deer, etc....Now pack all ten hours of making driving decisions into the 60 seconds or so after you exit the plane and the 10 seconds before you land! That's pretty scary to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #63 August 5, 2004 QuoteThere are a lot of dumbass people driving cars. Imagine them under a parachute. I still think the ratio wouldn't be that close. Most of the time the point of that arguement is to show how safe skydiving is. ?? The stats he used obviously took the dumbasses into account. (BTW - hate to break this, but there's a lot of dumbasses under canopy out there too) That ratio doesn't sound close to me at all, I'm not sure why you see it as close. For me personally, I'm 20 times more likely to die skydiving than driving - that doesn't seem close to me at all.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #64 August 5, 2004 QuoteQuotedrive 6500 miles during that whole week? Whew! Then I am lucky! I've done that many miles in a week a few times over the last year! Guess it wasn't my time! You've driven 15 hours a day for a week straight before?!??it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #65 August 5, 2004 Here's a question for you. Let's say that you and I go make a skydive. Who's more likely to get hurt and/or killed? On the surface, most whuffos would say that the lesser experienced person is more likely to be hurt and/or killed. But it just doesn't work that way. The dangers of skydiving never go away no matter how experienced a given jumper may be. If people with thousands of jumps are being severely hurt and/or killed, then the message needs to be embedded in our brains that we're all at risk and all of us are capable of messing up. It's a "Risk" vs "Reward" question that each jumper must come to grips with. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #66 August 5, 2004 QuoteThe dangers of Skydiving never go away no matter how experienced a given jumper may be. If people with thousands of jumps are being severely hurt and/or killed, then the message needs to be embedded in our brains that we're all at risk and all of us are capable of messing up. There it is. There is the example and the lesson to be learned. Somebody should paint that somewhere at the dz. Good words. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #67 August 5, 2004 And right next to it should be.. "Living has a 100% fatality rate. Everybody panic!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #68 August 5, 2004 I'll have to do the math again, but I did a few road trips this past year that were all driving all week long. Maybe I wasn't lucky, I just suck at math?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
inearnest 0 #69 August 5, 2004 Since this is about as polarizing a topic as politics: GWB on signing the $417 Billion defense bill today: ``Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.''--- "Once you jump. you'll never look up at the sky the same way again." Peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #70 August 5, 2004 QuoteAnd the sheep? That's when I get the sheep out. They aren't dangerous. They are actually quite loving and tender. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #71 August 5, 2004 Take the politics to the Speakers Corner And there is already a thread about that quote there. 27000 miles on the car in a year, 200+ jumps. I've about killed myself more jumping then driving.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #72 August 5, 2004 Last time at the dz. Sitting around the Bomb Squad table. Out of 10 people. Currently: One person was recovering from an ankle problem that required screws. One person had a pin in their finger. One person had a painful knee. Last time at work during lunch. Ten people at the table. They all drove to work that day. No one had any cast, pins, screws, etc involved with their body. Of the people that I know with over 5 years in sport, 1 in 5 has/has had metal. Not so for driving. There has been "currently injured" threads on this site. Everyone can quote whatever statistics they want. Or they can think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #73 August 5, 2004 QuoteNever tell anyone this sport is safe, it will come back to haunt you. it isnt safe... i've lost 3 people i became friends with in 2 years... not good numbers.. but i've also lost more (death toll is up to 6 with another looking over the edge far to often....) to other activities with less personal rewards... simply driving for example... yes its dangerous, you dont get to decide how you die really, but you can decide how you want to live before you do... QuoteI never push anyone into jumping... I have brought 8 tandems out to various DZs, all good friends who i wanted to show this wonderful experience too.. chased 5 out even. Everyone of them knew up front this was something that could kill them, even if everything went right.. it was emphasized by me and confirmed by their TM's before they jumped.. all of them loved their jumps, i've told a few i'd help them out with a loan to get thru AFF if they were interested, but that they had to make the calls and set it up on their own.....not one has yet....but i'll still get anyone who shows interest out to the DZ...sometimes people need a little push... i knew SDAZ was there from the first few weeks of being in Phoenix...but it took MissMae saying "hey come out and try this" before i really did...and it changed the way i look at the world... anyone, everyone who makes a skydive, even a tandem should accept the risks as they are, and decide for themselves, its not something you can do for anyone else.. no one is responsible for your life but you... no matter what some people might believe____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #74 August 5, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuotedrive 6500 miles during that whole week? Whew! Then I am lucky! I've done that many miles in a week a few times over the last year! Guess it wasn't my time! You've driven 15 hours a day for a week straight before?!?? i recently put 7000 miles on my car in less than 2 weeks the first nearly 5,500 in under 5 days.. of course my average speed was not 65 mph...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #75 August 5, 2004 No argument from me Bill. This sport is dangerous and it will mame or kill you even if you do everything right. However I must have very clumsy workers! A few are on crutches right now, none from jumping!_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
