France bans smoking in restaurants

[jlmiracle 7]

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The wait is longer since they are getting a TON more business now.

Rehmwa- didn't the Viking and a few other places go out of business because of the smoking ban?

Maybe places are busy because there are less of them.

Yes, I smoke but I prefer to go outside and away from others to light up.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[DJL 232]

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It's not politics, it's health, and if you're going to trust a bar owner with your health then you're Philip Morris.

If there were any shred of truth to that, any at all.....all non-smokers would've been dead, a long, long time ago. You're confusing fashion, with fact.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. We don't trust bar owners with our health, therefore we support a smoking ban in bars.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Andrewwhyte 1]

One trend I notice is that the later a jurisdiction goes non-smoking, the more comprehensive the ban tends to be.
British Columbia was the first province in Canada to ban smoking is restaurants, and later in bars. They did however allow for designated smoking rooms with specific ventilation requirements. That is now one of the (if not the) most lax regs in the country.
Alberta on the other hand just banned smoking in bars last month province wide. The ban includes all patios and a five metre zone around the door.
The current smoking related issues here now are whether to ban smoking in cars with children in them, and whether a condominium strata board has the right to ban smoking in privately owned apartments and town houses (apparently they do).

[DJL 232]

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They did however allow for designated smoking rooms with specific ventilation requirements. That is now one of the (if not the) most lax regs in the country.

That may not be the case but I don't know what Canada's regulations are. In the US a smoking lounge has the highest ventilatin requirements of any space and that can get expensive. Very few bar or restaurant owners are willing to pay for a dedicated ventilation system when they already have a full kitchen to pay for.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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They did however allow for designated smoking rooms with specific ventilation requirements. That is now one of the (if not the) most lax regs in the country.

That may not be the case but I don't know what Canada's regulations are. In the US a smoking lounge has the highest ventilatin requirements of any space and that can get expensive. Very few bar or restaurant owners are willing to pay for a dedicated ventilation system when they already have a full kitchen to pay for.

A lot of bars in BC invested. That is what is making it hard to get rid of them. The bar owners are screaming about sunk costs to meet a moving target.
BTW when I said ",..most lax regs in the country" I was referring to my country not yours.

[shropshire 0]

and Brits' in making all bars, restaurants and cafes smoke-free >>

I couldn't believe it... we've just come back from France and it's really weird to see folks standing out side in the cold having a fag.... We can now have a drink and no coughing for the wife any more

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[DJL 232]

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They did however allow for designated smoking rooms with specific ventilation requirements. That is now one of the (if not the) most lax regs in the country.

That may not be the case but I don't know what Canada's regulations are. In the US a smoking lounge has the highest ventilatin requirements of any space and that can get expensive. Very few bar or restaurant owners are willing to pay for a dedicated ventilation system when they already have a full kitchen to pay for.

A lot of bars in BC invested. That is what is making it hard to get rid of them. The bar owners are screaming about sunk costs to meet a moving target.
BTW when I said ",..most lax regs in the country" I was referring to my country not yours.

Yeah, that's why I said that I don't know what's up in Canada. Well, it's not going to cost those guys any more to just ban smoking but yeah, that sucks. On a positive note, they'll actually be paying less for ventilation since they can recirculate the air...

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[ZeG 0]

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It's not politics, it's health, and if you're going to trust a bar owner with your health then you're Philip Morris.

If there were any shred of truth to that, any at all.....all non-smokers would've been dead, a long, long time ago. You're confusing fashion, with fact.

Uh? Smoking is not hazardous to one's health? Being exposed to cigarette smoke is not hazardous to one's health?
Fuck fashion. Body bags are not fashionable.

IF it were truly hazardous, it'd be illegal....just like drugs. No connection has ever been made, between smoking and cancer....lots of rhetoric and bs claims but no positive proof. I know dozens of people who've died from lung or throat cancer and only one, ever smoked (cigars).

So following your argumentation: Anything that is not illegal can't be unhealthy/deadly? So you wouldn't mind if I give your childs (if you have any) some bottles of Vodka? I mean alcohol is not illegal so it can't be bad for your kids

I have never heard of nicotin and/or tarmac not being unhealthy...

[Zenister 0]

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however this should be entirely an economic decision (by the owners and those who 'vote with their dollars) not a political one.

It's not politics, it's health...

it is politics, individuals make their own health decisions, posting signs that it is a smoking establishment allows you to make that decision (to enter an area where you KNOW that smoking occurs) If you dont want to be exposed then 'vote' with your dollars and go to the establishment with a non smoking environment. If smoking and second hand smoke are acceptable risks to you then eat in/patronize whichever one you wish.

using your (and the Government's) logic then, Denny's should also be barred from serving grandslam breakfasts

let economics decide who prospers..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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using your (and the Government's) logic then, Denny's should also be barred from serving grandslam breakfasts

Denny's should be prohibited from making the eating of grandslam breakfasts a condition of working there.

[ZeG 0]

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however this should be entirely an economic decision (by the owners and those who 'vote with their dollars) not a political one.

It's not politics, it's health...

it is politics, individuals make their own health decisions, posting signs that it is a smoking establishment allows you to make that decision (to enter an area where you KNOW that smoking occurs) If you dont want to be exposed then 'vote' with your dollars and go to the establishment with a non smoking environment. If smoking and second hand smoke are acceptable risks to you then eat in/patronize whichever one you wish.

using your (and the Government's) logic then, Denny's should also be barred from serving grandslam breakfasts

let economics decide who prospers..

By the time you aknowledge the fact that smoke is unhealthy and that people who work or go there as customers, have to deal with it, you are discriminating people.
What about people who have asthma and can't go into a heavy smoking area, or pregnant women? You can't just say tough luck.. go somewhere else and vote against it.
To use another example: In front of a supermarket, do you just skip having parking lots for disabled and then just say "go shop somewhere else?".
You have to adhere to certain ethical rules. And in my opinion smoking establishments are effectivley banning people from entering (which is discrimination) due to the fact that they don't want to/or can't bear the unhealthy air.
And the poor sods who have to work there.... You are effectivly narrowing your employee base to smokers (and that is a fact I worked in a pub during my student years).... and so on...

[DJL 232]

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using your (and the Government's) logic then, Denny's should also be barred from serving grandslam breakfasts

My credit card statements reflecting 2AM activity would agree with you.

Then it's politics. I don't expect the government to save me from choking on a pile of eggs. I do expect them to (as is my personal profession) to ensure that the air within a commercial space is healthy.

I design and submit several hundred commercial mechanical designs for permit and construction each year. I wonder what would happen if all of a sudden I decided that I didn't care about people's health. Business owners, with a few exceptions, will go with the cheapest legal method. If it weren't for big-bad government looking out for us then we'd all work in smelly shitholes.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[kbordson 8]

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let economics decide who prospers..

Although I don't smoke and prefer non-smoking settings, I personally agree with this. I didn't frequent the bars or establishments that were smoking unless I was with friends that smoked and really wanted to be able to have that decision. I chose to support the restaurants that were non smoking because it was a better experience for me. If more people do so, then FINANCIALLY the businesses that succeed would be non-smoking and it would be by the peoples choice.


And.... kschilk, do you really believe that "No connection has ever been made, between smoking and cancer....lots of rhetoric and bs claims but no positive proof"? Go to www.pubmed.com. Type in smoking, tobacco and cancer to the search criteria. You will find MANY studies, with statistically significant results showing the risks of smoking. Not just related to lung cancer, but also bladder cancer, cervical cancer, certain GI cancers and others. You are right, you could know some people that smoke and don't get cancer. . . . but that doesn't mean that he/she isn't increasing the odds of getting cancer. Genetics does play a role in it, but having a mutagen trigger problems is bad.

[eeneR 1]

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IF it were truly hazardous, it'd be illegal....just like drugs. No connection has ever been made, between smoking and cancer....lots of rhetoric and bs claims but no positive proof. I know dozens of people who've died from lung or throat cancer and only one, ever smoked (cigars).

My mother died at the age of 51 from smoking related lung cancer. So sorry I call BS.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[kschilk 0]

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My mother died at the age of 51 from smoking related lung cancer. So sorry I call BS.

I had 2 cousins, die from throat cancer....1 uncle died from throat cancer and three others, from lung cancer. My ex-mother-in-law died from lung cancer and my half-sister's mother, died from lung cancer....none of the above, ever smoked. One uncle who died from throat cancer, smoked cigars....for the non-gullible, the math just doesn't work out.

I had chest x-rays taken, during my Navy separation physical in '93. While showing me the x-rays, doctor said my lungs were in near perfect condition. I replied "You mean, for a smoker...right?" He re-examined the x-rays and sent me for a second set, which showed the same. He couldn't believe I was a smoker, let alone....that I'd smoked a pack or more per day, for the previous 22 years. If smoking truly caused cancer, I'd have had it a long time ago. On the other hand, I don't drink coffee and all the aforementioned relatives that died from cancer, did. Obviously, it's coffee that causes cancer, not smoking....by gov't and medical standards, the proof I've just offered, is irrefutable.

"T'was ever thus."

[DJL 232]

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My mother died at the age of 51 from smoking related lung cancer. So sorry I call BS.

I had 2 cousins, die from throat cancer....1 uncle died from throat cancer and three others, from lung cancer. My ex-mother-in-law died from lung cancer and my half-sister's mother, died from lung cancer....none of the above, ever smoked. One uncle who died from throat cancer, smoked cigars....for the non-gullible, the math just doesn't work out.

I had chest x-rays taken, during my Navy separation physical in '93. While showing me the x-rays, doctor said my lungs were in near perfect condition. I replied "You mean, for a smoker...right?" He re-examined the x-rays and sent me for a second set, which showed the same. He couldn't believe I was a smoker, let alone....that I'd smoked a pack or more per day, for the previous 22 years. If smoking truly caused cancer, I'd have had it a long time ago. On the other hand, I don't drink coffee and all the aforementioned relatives that died from cancer, did. Obviously, it's coffee that causes cancer, not smoking....by gov't and medical standards, the proof I've just offered, is irrefutable.

And there you have it.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[kschilk 0]

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So following your argumentation: Anything that is not illegal can't be unhealthy/deadly? So you wouldn't mind if I give your childs (if you have any) some bottles of Vodka? I mean alcohol is not illegal so it can't be bad for your kids

I have never heard of nicotin and/or tarmac not being unhealthy...

There are laws (at least in the U.S.) against providing alcohol to minors and despite what you may have been told, vodka does contain alcohol.

"T'was ever thus."

[DJL 232]

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So following your argumentation: Anything that is not illegal can't be unhealthy/deadly? So you wouldn't mind if I give your childs (if you have any) some bottles of Vodka? I mean alcohol is not illegal so it can't be bad for your kids

I have never heard of nicotin and/or tarmac not being unhealthy...

There are laws (at least in the U.S.) against providing alcohol to minors and despite what you may have been told, vodka does contain alcohol.

Not when you mix it with olives. Then it contains...super powers of unfathomable wit.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[kbordson 8]

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Obviously, it's coffee that causes cancer, not smoking....by gov't and medical standards, the proof I've just offered, is irrefutable.

Your "n" of 7 or 8 would not be published by ANY medical journal as "proof." Understanding epidemiology and power of studies will help with that statement.

[kschilk 0]

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Not when you mix it with olives. Then it contains...super powers of unfathomable wit.

"T'was ever thus."

[ltdiver 3]

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I'll admit to getting used to smoke free bars in Arizona ...

Where? They really do have smoke-free bars in AZ? I'll admit that I thought all bars in AZ allowed smoking, but my only reference is the Bent Prop in Eloy.

I cannot take cigarette smoke, makes me very ill, and it was a let-down after medaling at Nat's '06 that I couldn't celebrate with my buds there in the bar due to the heavy smoke layer.

Now, would there be -any- chance of the Bend Prop going smokeless?!
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[kschilk 0]

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Your "n" of 7 or 8 would not be published by ANY medical journal as "proof." Understanding epidemiology and power of studies will help with that statement.

I wouldn't expect them to, after all....religions don't publish evidence of evolution....since it's counter to their cause.

"T'was ever thus."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Now, would there be -any- chance of the Bend Prop going smokeless?!
ltdiver

All bars in AZ have been smokeless since last May.

[ltdiver 3]

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Now, would there be -any- chance of the Bend Prop going smokeless?!
ltdiver

All bars in AZ have been smokeless since last May.

I'm hoping that that includes private industry such as the Bent Prop? Have you been there since May? And if not, any Eloy local care to comment?
Nationals '08 is in Eloy and if this is true it's one of my wishes that's been granted this year.



ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I'm hoping that that includes private industry such as the Bent Prop? Have you been there since May? And if not, any Eloy local care to comment?
Nationals '08 is in Eloy and if this is true it's one of my wishes that's been granted this year.

ltdiver

Aren't all bars private industry? No I have not been there since May, but I am pretty sure they are complying with the law.