Another suit

[kbordson 8]

Another point that this tread should make us think about (besides the whole no jumping to conclusions) is the Incidents Forum.

Fatality x2 - Plane crash - Mt, Vernon MO - 19 April 2008 had over 230 post to that thread filled with it's share of blame and speculation. That forum can be very helpful and assist others in not making the same mistakes that some have. But... it can also hurt us. It is not one that you need to sign in to view. Anyone has complete, unrestricted access to it. Although the moderators do a good job of cleaning it up, we should really be more careful what we post in there that might later be used against us as a community. . . . or think about making that a forum that you do have to sign into (even though it's not really that hard to get a user name and just sign into it)

[NWFlyer 2]

You do have to sign in to get to the Incidents forum. But that's not a real deterrent for a lawyer or media person who wants to gather information. The one thing it does do is prevent the information from being indexed on search engines.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[kbordson 8]

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You do have to sign in to get to the Incidents forum. But that's not a real deterrent for a lawyer or media person who wants to gather information. The one thing it does do is prevent the information from being indexed on search engines.

No you don't. I just signed out and was still able to access it. You have to be signed in to post, but not to view.


correction - You're right. You can view the forum thread list. But when you click on the thread you have to sign in. But.... you're right. It's not a real deterrent.

[pilotdave 0]

News article about dropping the suit: http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/NEWS01/805220362/1007

Dave

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

What a shame, but in this age of "no personal responsibility" it's becoming less and less surprising.

QF muthafuckin T

Edit to add: I'm glad the suit was dropped.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[headoverheels 291]

Quote

News article about dropping the suit: http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/NEWS01/805220362/1007

Dave

"He contended his wife's injuries cost him loss of consortium."

Someone should tell the husband to go wank off.

[k0k0pelli 0]

Quote

Quote

News article about dropping the suit: http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/NEWS01/805220362/1007

Dave

"He contended his wife's injuries cost him loss of consortium."

Someone should tell the husband to go wank off.

Please re-read the posts before you comment. I know the husband. The loss of consortium is lawyer-speak. Get it? Mike never said such things. These people were duped by a lawyer. They are good people, trying to heal.

And all who dissed them should apologize.

Thanks.

[kaerodyne 0]

Quote

News article about dropping the suit: http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/NEWS01/805220362/1007

Dave

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it seems that the suit might still not be dropped by the lawyer who has written consent from the jumper.

"We had authority from her to file the suit," Rader said. "Discussions have always been that once we obtained this information the suit was going to be dropped. It was never her intention to ever attempt to seek the personal assets of Freefall Express or any of the defendants."

"If it's determined the company doesn't have insurance that will cover the crash, the suit will be dropped, Rader said. If such insurance exists, "there will be discussions on how to proceed," he said."

I would not take too much of what is being said in this article to heart, until the suit is actually dropped in writing.

Lets hope for the best.

[k0k0pelli 0]

I give up. The eagerness to believe ill of others and condemn without all the facts baffles me.

Mike and Tera's friends are reading these posts. You are throwing gas on a fire that was accidental.

Please stop. I don't know how else to ask it. Shred the character of the lawyer who lied to them. But grant Tera and Mike a little peace. We're going to be grieving our losses for the rest of our lives. We miss our girls. And Mike and Tera were family to Marnie and Jen.

Peace.

[harleydee117 0]

YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK...THE RULE IS "BELIEVE NONE OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE" iMMEDIATLY YOU ALL JUMP UP AND SAY HOW SHITTY OF HER AND HER HUSBAND. DID IT EVER OCCUR TO ANY OF YOU PEOPLE THAT THIS WAS NEVER HER INTENT? HOW MANY OF YOU FROG JUMPING ASSHOLES EVEN BOTHERED TO CALL HER AND ASK BEFORE YOU JUMPED TO CONCLUSIONS AND POSTED ALL THE SHIT THAT I HAVE BEEN READING? NOT A DAMN ONE OF YOU!!!! THEN WHEN SHE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE "SUIT SHE NEVER AGREED TO FILE" HAD BEEN FILED, SHE IMMEDIATELY HAD THE SUIT WITHDRAWN, HOW MANY OF YOU EAGER BEAVER FINGER POINTING ASSES POSTED "OH SHIT I'M SORRY, WE BELIEVED WHAT WE HEARD AND NEVER GAVE YOU THE BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT THAT YOU KNEW NOTHIN?" NONE OF YOU!! I UNDERSTAND THAT SKYDIVERS ARE A VERY CLOSE KNIT GROUP...JUST LOOK HOW FAST YOU ALL TURNED YOUR BACK ON ONE OF YOUR OWN. WHO'S THE HYPOCRIT NOW? ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN POSTING "SHIT" ARE JUST AS BAD AS THE MEDIA, WHO GOT THINGS WRONG, AND THE LAWYER WHO FILED THIS SUIT W/O THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SMITH FAMILY. JUST SEE WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE WHEN YOU ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION!! WHICH OF COURSE I HOPE THAT NONE OF YOU EVER HAVE TO GO THRU THIS KIND OF OSTERSIZING FROM THE PEOPLE THAT YOU ALL CALL "YOUR FAMILY!"

[DougH 270]

Excuse me but I immediately retracted my statement and I apologized. I was quick to post, and what I said was wrong.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Gato 0]

If I could delete my previous post, I would. I do not feel, however, that it is hypocritical to "freak out" just a little bit over ANY lawsuit taking place in this sport.

My apologies.

T.I.N.S.

[harleydee117 0]

SKYDIVING IS A "BEAUTIFUL" SPORT...IT IS SAD WHEN ANY THING HAPPENS TO DISCOLOR IT. FREAK OUT...YES IT IS ONLY NATURAL TO DEFEND WHAT YOU LOVE.BUT TO ATTACK ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR OWN W/O KNOWING THE FACTS IS JUST WRONG. FOR THE ONES WHO "PERSONALLY" KNOW TERA AND MIKE, I COMMEND YOU FOR NOT JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS AND POSTING WORDS THAT ARE NOW HAVING TO BE TAKEN BACK. THIS POST IS NOT INTENDED TO ATTACK EVERYONE JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THINGS ARE NOT ALWAYS WHAT THEY APPEAR TO BE,,,FFE IS A FANTASTIC PLACE RAN BY TERRIFIC PEOPLE..NO ONE WANTED THIS TRAGEDY TO HAPPEN...NOT ONLY WAS TERA HURT IN THIS "ACCIDENT" BUT NOW SHE HAS BEEN HURT BY THE POSTING OF A "FEW" WHO REALLY KNOW NOTHING AT ALL...ITS TIME FOR A BIG GROUP HUG AND LET THE HEALING BEGIN FOR EVERYONE...EVERYONE OF YOU SKYDIVERS KNOW THE LOVE OF THE SPORT AND THE SPECIAL BOND THAT DEVELOPES WHEN YOU SIGN ON TO BE A SKYDIVER. KEEP THE LOVE AND HONOR OF THIS SPORT GOING STRONG..BAND TOGETHER AND HELP TERA AND MIKE GET THROUGH THIS AS WELL AS LYNN AND BRIAN...THEY LOST 2 OF THERE OWN FAMILY HERE...HAVE A GREAT DAY EVERYONE!!!

[kbordson 8]

First - Quit shouting. (When you type all in caps it indicates shouting or yelling, so either you didn't know or you intended to be yelling during your entire post)

Second - This is your first post on this website. And it's all about hate and disgust?! That reflects as much on you as this thread does on others. YOU are making assumptions and "immediately jumping and saying how shitty" we are. If you had taken the time to read other threads/comments you would have a better understanding of us "frog jumping assholes." This is a caring group (most of the time) - have you even seen the Memorial Threads for Marnie and Jennifer? We do try to comfort and support each other. Skydivers are NOT all about "Ostersizing" from the family but yes, some do get pushed away - those that intentionally harm within our "family" - which lawsuits do. And typically lawsuits are not placed without the knowledge of the one suing. So the assumption that she was trying to harm the dz and the pilot is a fair one to make. But even still... some of the comments directed toward her and her husband were harsh.... Angers flare.... like yours. And we all need to learn to control it.

Third - some have gotten contact information to try to help her... but attitudes like yours in that post throw up a HUGE barrier. Why help her when others like you (in her defense and out of love for her, I'm sure) are attacking those that might want to help? Instead you could have used that bandwidth to start a thread with a link to pay pal for donations to Tera and Mike. But now with all this drama.... how much sympathy is there?

Lastly - Why are you spinning yourself up over attitudes and opinions of people that you have never met? Why increase your blood pressure and worry about comments from other countries? These are people you don't know.... why make yourself sick dwelling on their thoughts. You should just be spending time with those that you do get comfort and support from and give them the same. We might all be skydivers, but this is still the internet.

Respectfully
Karen

[normiss 622]

If anyone never intends to sue...why sign the papers authorizing an attorney to represent you???
That's what they do...and it's hard to believe you wouldn't know they were a personal injury law firm.

My apologies if that wasn't their intent, but they did authorize such actions, didn't they?

Personally, I have always declined any offers of reprensentation when offered. Law suits are not always the right thing to do.

I'm sorry if you disagree.

[yamtx73 0]

Quote

YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK...THE RULE IS "BELIEVE NONE OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE" iMMEDIATLY YOU ALL JUMP UP AND SAY HOW SHITTY OF HER AND HER HUSBAND. DID IT EVER OCCUR TO ANY OF YOU PEOPLE THAT THIS WAS NEVER HER INTENT? HOW MANY OF YOU FROG JUMPING ASSHOLES EVEN BOTHERED TO CALL HER AND ASK BEFORE YOU JUMPED TO CONCLUSIONS AND POSTED ALL THE SHIT THAT I HAVE BEEN READING? NOT A DAMN ONE OF YOU!!!! THEN WHEN SHE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE "SUIT SHE NEVER AGREED TO FILE" HAD BEEN FILED, SHE IMMEDIATELY HAD THE SUIT WITHDRAWN, HOW MANY OF YOU EAGER BEAVER FINGER POINTING ASSES POSTED "OH SHIT I'M SORRY, WE BELIEVED WHAT WE HEARD AND NEVER GAVE YOU THE BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT THAT YOU KNEW NOTHIN?" NONE OF YOU!! I UNDERSTAND THAT SKYDIVERS ARE A VERY CLOSE KNIT GROUP...JUST LOOK HOW FAST YOU ALL TURNED YOUR BACK ON ONE OF YOUR OWN. WHO'S THE HYPOCRIT NOW? ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN POSTING "SHIT" ARE JUST AS BAD AS THE MEDIA, WHO GOT THINGS WRONG, AND THE LAWYER WHO FILED THIS SUIT W/O THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SMITH FAMILY. JUST SEE WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE WHEN YOU ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION!! WHICH OF COURSE I HOPE THAT NONE OF YOU EVER HAVE TO GO THRU THIS KIND OF OSTERSIZING FROM THE PEOPLE THAT YOU ALL CALL "YOUR FAMILY!"

Lots of hate and disgust there and your first post too...
Her and her husband both signed on the line with the lawyer who filed the suit. If you "don't intend to sue" then don't sign the damn papers! Did they even read them before signing? If so then they knew the lawyer was going to file. Once a suit against the DZ/DZO has been filed, even if the suit is dropped so they can go after the insurance company (who will most likely go after the pilot, dzo, and anyone else they can to cover their losses) they've burned their bridges. Ever hear of a waiver? Did you read the waiver she/you/all of us sign?

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[harleydee117 0]

I apologize to everyone about the caps!!! I had no idea that I was Yelling at you...My bad and please everyone accept my apology. It was mearly trying to get the point across about not jumping to conclusions.

[BlueHaze 0]

OMG! I just thought of a GREAT idea. It is a “Jump to Conclusions” mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor… and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO.

[NWFlyer 2]

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If anyone never intends to sue...why sign the papers authorizing an attorney to represent you???
That's what they do...and it's hard to believe you wouldn't know they were a personal injury law firm.

Non-skydiving case, so it's a bit of a different animal... but, I have signed papers with a personal injury firm with no intention of filing a lawsuit unless it became absolutely necessary to cover my costs, and then I'm only talking about a lawsuit against insurance companies with whom I do business, not against a company like a DZ with whom I knowingly entered into a waiver.

I hired an attorney to represent my interests with the insurance companies (in this case for an auto accident so we had two auto insurance and one health insurance company involved - fairly complex situation). I needed help navigating the multiple claims that needed to be made to cover my medical bills (just under $100k). A lawsuit would have only been considered had the claims not covered the cost of the medical care, and only at the end of the process after exhausting all other options. It would have been months later, not hours after signing the papers. Turned out not to be necessary at all as the settlement covered my care.

This guy was predatory, not legitimate. I can't believe I'm defending personal injury attorneys, but after having worked with a decent one, I can say that there's decent ones out there.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[normiss 622]

I think you've hit our issue with this ordeal.
Why do people try to circumvent a waiver?
How often are they successful at that?
Or is it simply a "legal process nuisance" that they end up paying...the cost of representation, and a smaller settlement to make it go away.

Some things should be about the principle behind the original intent. That's the way I see it anyway.
I signed a waiver WITH the intent of abiding by the clauses of said waiver. I don't understand how it's even possible to attempt to throw that out at a later date.

I understand the need to seek aid in costs when something happens and I still believe that was and is the purpose of personal injury law firms...BUT...like you stated...I haven't signed a waiver with any of my insurance companies saying I won't attempt to hold them liable when I have an accident. That is not the case in skyjumping.

SIUCC!

but I'll stop now...I don't want to go upsetting anyone....

[NWFlyer 2]

But we don't know why she signed on with the lawyer - she may well have been looking for someone to help her file claims with her own health insurance company or accident insurance company. It's possible that's all she was looking for assistance with.

In my mind, a big part of the personal responsibility we take in skydiving is financial responsibility, and that means being able to pay for our own medical care one way or another, whether that's through donations from friends and family, our own financial resources, or making sure that we're adequately insured... and if we do take steps to be financially responsible through insuring ourselves and those insurance companies are turning around and trying to fuck with us when we file claims, I don't see anything wrong with getting a lawyer to help you work with those insurance companies to make sure you get paid. BUT ... make sure you get representation that won't try to turn on the DZ.

None of us really knows - there are a lot of impassioned posts from Tera's friends that sound like there really was no intention to go after the DZ and I really genuinely hope that's true.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[tmanmike 0]

Amazing how many people think skydiving is the holy grail. Guess what, its not.

The lynch mobs that form on this site are absolutely amazing. Passing judgement without credible facts or information makes EVERYONE on this site (as someone else has said) just as ingnorant as the media that people here so commonly blame.

Some of you people think you fucking know it all. Your comments serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever except to perhaps fill a void in what could be perceived as a gaping hole in your boring lives.

Skydiving is not sacred. Skydiving is not the be all to end all. You people who state that you would not sue if you were to be injured or would prefer your family not to sue if you die have no room to speak until you are in those fucking shoes. Unless you have been in that position (and I know some of us have been) how about shutting the fuck up.

Life is not black and white. There are many many shades of grey. Get off your fucking soapboxes (cause I am getting off mine now) worry about yourself and stay the fuck out of other peoples business and personal choices.

[jsaxton 0]

Quote

None of us really knows - there are a lot of impassioned posts from Tera's friends that sound like there really was no intention to go after the DZ and I really genuinely hope that's true.

Then she can direct her counsel to drop the lawsuit. Pretty simple.

[normiss 622]

I couldn't agree more.

[FlyingJ 0]

I've heard people say "but I'm just going after insurance money, not after XYZ friend/business, etc." and the article referenced in this case sounded kind of similar. I saw it happen in a non-skydiving related incident. The injured party did not directly sue the person/business but did go after the insurance claim, and a sizable one, but had no idea (either through ignorance or being mislead by a sketchy personal injury attorney) that the insurance company would then go after the very friend/business to recoup their losses that the injured party thought they were protecting by only going after insurance money.

I don't blame anyone for checking into options when it comes to insurance. Maybe the answer is that you don't like the way it sounds and you drop it, but with the type of bills, etc. that can add up from a serious injury I think it is insane not to at least investigate, hopefully with good and honest help that won't try to take advantage of the situation.

Killing threads since 2004.