Kneejerk Reactions

[skybytch 259]

The fire department in a major city near me got a call the other day. Another report of a gas leak. When the firemen got there, they made sure the power and gas were off. Within a few minutes of doing that, the house blew up. Four firefighters were injured.

It has since come out that they were not wearing gloves or masks. Had they been wearing them, they probably wouldn't have been injured as badly as they were. As of right now, there is no department policy regarding what they are supposed to wear when responding to a gas leak. So the chief is going to put a policy in place, and many other fire departments without SOP's for gas leaks will be doing the same.

This is a knee jerk reaction to one incident. It will cost taxpayer money to develop, institute and police. Firefighters are smart people; they can figure out what they do or do not need to wear on a call. They are also adults who are aware of the risks they are taking. Why do they need to be treated like children who don't want to wear a sweater when it's cold outside?

I mean geez. Hundreds and hundreds of times they've responded to gas leaks and nothing bad happened.

[BillyVance 34]

Here's one stupid-ass kneejerk reaction:

Several months ago on I-20 in east Alabama, a car that was directly behind a large truck, was hit by a piece of asphalt kicked up by the truck's tires, and it went through the windshield. The passenger was killed.

So what does Alabama do? Lower the speed limit of approximately 35 miles of rural interstate from 70 mph to 55 mph.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Zenister 0]

obvious trolling is obvious.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[skybytch 259]

The story.

Sorry, didn't realize that pointing out a news story and making a few sarcastic remarks about it is considered to be trolling.

[skyrider 0]

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The story.

Sorry, didn't realize that pointing out a news story and making a few sarcastic remarks about it is considered to be trolling.

Some folks just feel the need to police boards, rather than contribute!

I wonder if it was a volunteer company? Or proffesionals?

In here Dago, if they leave the firehouse, for any call, they are in full gear, which has got to be a bitch here during the summer!

[JohnMitchell 14]

We modify our procedures according to experience. Sounds like 4 firefighters got some experience the hard way, and the powers that be want to prevent a re-occurence. I didn't read the article, but I can certainly understand making more protective gear mandatory in risky situations.

[godfrog 2]

I agree with John, My job is being a safety Supervisor and believe it or not people will put themselves in situations, no gloves, no respirators, no safety gear because it is uncomfortable, cumbersome, or they just don't feel like it.
unfortunately alot of these rules are written in blood.

Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward

[popsjumper 2]

my knee-jerk reaction:

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-Firefighters are smart people;
-they can figure out what they do or do not need to wear on a call.
-They are also adults who are aware of the risks they are taking.

Assumptions, assumptions.
Apparently wrong assumptions in this case.

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Why do they need to be treated like children who don't want to wear a sweater when it's cold outside?

Maybe because they acted that way?

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I mean geez. Hundreds and hundreds of times they've responded to gas leaks and nothing bad happened.

Hundreds and hundreds of skydives have been made and nothing bad happened....some analogy going on there, eh?

What I find hard to believe is that there was no policy in place before the incident. What were they thinking???

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Gawain 0]

Quote

The fire department in a major city near me got a call the other day. Another report of a gas leak. When the firemen got there, they made sure the power and gas were off. Within a few minutes of doing that, the house blew up. Four firefighters were injured.

It has since come out that they were not wearing gloves or masks. Had they been wearing them, they probably wouldn't have been injured as badly as they were. As of right now, there is no department policy regarding what they are supposed to wear when responding to a gas leak. So the chief is going to put a policy in place, and many other fire departments without SOP's for gas leaks will be doing the same.

This is a knee jerk reaction to one incident. It will cost taxpayer money to develop, institute and police. Firefighters are smart people; they can figure out what they do or do not need to wear on a call. They are also adults who are aware of the risks they are taking. Why do they need to be treated like children who don't want to wear a sweater when it's cold outside?

I mean geez. Hundreds and hundreds of times they've responded to gas leaks and nothing bad happened.

We must live close by each other now! That was just over the 4th in Sacramento (or that area anyway)....

To you point:

This sums it up - If one kid shits the bed, everyone has to wear diapers.

Like it or not, as good as the firefighters are, they are under the authority of the government bureaucracies that administer them. I've yet to see a truly measured government response to an incident when it was called for. The military is very good at it. Sorry to see the FD maybe get hampered by it too...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[godfrog 2]

So take your cypress or aad and give it to someone who wants it and take your reserve out and just put a pillow in there to fill the space up and go skydiving!

Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward

[Bolas 5]

Once again, The Onion sums it up perfectly.

http://www.theonion.com/video/truck-accident-that-killed-rafters-in-canyon-spark,17697/

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Here's one stupid-ass kneejerk reaction:

Several months ago on I-20 in east Alabama, a car that was directly behind a large truck, was hit by a piece of asphalt kicked up by the truck's tires, and it went through the windshield. The passenger was killed.

So what does Alabama do? Lower the speed limit of approximately 35 miles of rural interstate from 70 mph to 55 mph.

Seems to me, that would save on repairing the highway and save drivers fuel mileage and leave some for the politicians!


Chuck

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

The problem is that the costs to develop and implement a new SOP for these situations pales in comparison to the costs of an injury.

The company I drive for spent a significant amount of money teaching all the drivers a "new" way of safe driving (really just a rework of defensive driving in a slightly different package). The result was a pretty dramatic drop in accidents. The estimate I was given was (if the accident rate was presumed to have dropped soley because of the training) that it paid for itself over 50 to 1. ($50 accident payout for each $1 of training costs)

Personally, I've driven a motorcycle for over 20 years with only one minor accident (didn't even drop the bike).
So why then do I wear a helmet (and other protective gear) every time I ride?

Because the potential downside of not wearing it far outweighs the time energy and inconvenience (and cost in dollars too) of wearing it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[k-dubjumps 0]

I think the risk being addressed by the fire department is the risk of being sued. I'm sure it seems like common sense to wear protective gear in a potentially harmful situation, but if one of the fire fighters gets injured and says, "well, they didn't tell me I had to wear it" there's a lawsuit in the making. If the policy is in place and the fire fighter doesn't follow policy, then fault is on him. So while it is going to cost the taxpayer money to develop and implement, in the longer run it is cheaper than one or more multi-million dollar lawsuits.

Unfortunately we now live in a CYA society.

Adrenaline is my crack

DPH #3
D.S. #16 FAG #12 Muff Brother #4406

[Nutz 0]

Actually all it does is generate revenue for the state. They lowered the speed limit and put many more state troopers on the interstate writing a lot more tickets. Doesn't really solve anything but gets the state a bunch of money. F'ing govt! Wait - I work for the government. Thank goodness the gov't was here to save us!

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[godfrog 2]

Talk to the fire fighters involved and see if there would be anything that they would do differently now if they were called out to a gas filled house or building.

Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward

[theonlyski 3]

You think thats bad, the military will often direct changes to SOPs that easily affect tens of thousands of people, because one person did something stupid and unforseen.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[peek 20]

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Sorry, didn't realize that pointing out a news story and making a few sarcastic remarks about it is considered to be trolling.

My dear, I was thinking nearly the same thing as "Zenister", except I was thinking of referring to your post as "tongue-in-cheek"!

I found it amazing that you mentioned firefighters being allowed to make adult decisions for themselves, when, in threads about wingloading and usage of cameras, that you tend to favor more rules for these adult skydivers.

Did I misunderstand you?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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unfortunately alot of these rules are written in blood.

Absolutely. That's the same ink the FAA used to write most of my procedures.

[Bolas 5]

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Talk to the fire fighters involved and see if there would be anything that they would do differently now if they were called out to a gas filled house or building.

I'm sure they would, and sure others will regardless of a policy change.

As mentioned above, this policy change is not for firefighters safety, it's for a CYA from lawsuits.

In general, I feel stupid behaviors should be allowed and then used as examples for others when the inevitable occurs, not be the foundation of new restrictions for all.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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This is a knee jerk reaction to one incident. It will cost taxpayer money to develop, institute and police.

It will cost a lot more to do nothing.

Compensation for a worker who is not working due to a workplace accident is expensive. Further, lawsuits will follow if the same accidents happen and the responsible parties do nothing.

Those same firefighters you seem to hold in such high regard, are the first ones who will be sueing their employer after the accident.

[skybytch 259]

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My dear, I was thinking nearly the same thing as "Zenister", except I was thinking of referring to your post as "tongue-in-cheek"!

I found it amazing that you mentioned firefighters being allowed to make adult decisions for themselves, when, in threads about wingloading and usage of cameras, that you tend to favor more rules for these adult skydivers.

Did I misunderstand you?

Any parallels that might exist between firefighter's gear and novice skydiver's main canopies are left as an exercise for the student.

[masterrig 1]

You bet! Plus, they found I-20, a veritable gold mine of revenue!


Chuck

[Bolas 5]

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Those same firefighters you seem to hold in such high regard, are the first ones who will be sueing their employer after the accident.

Well that is their right to try, unless they filled out a multi page waiver, possibly with a videod portion.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[jsaxton 0]

one person takes a dump and everyone has to wear a diaper.