Spectre or Sabre

[LilZilla 2]

I've heard so much about how ppl just love there Spectre and also there Sabre. Which canopy is better all around and whats the difference in performance.

[mr2mk1g 10]

sabre 1 or 2?

[skybytch 259]

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Which canopy is better all around

"Better" is a subjective term. The one I think is better/best may or may not be the best/right canopy for you, and Joe Bob may think a third canopy is better than both of them. And all three of us may be right.

I love Spectres. At the light wingloadings I've flown I find them to be fun to fly, easy to get good accurate landings with and I love the slow snivelly openings.

I've jumped Sabres as well (Sabre 1; haven't flow a Sabre2 yet). Also lightly loaded I found them to be fun to fly and easy to land.

The biggest difference is that the Spectre is a semi-elliptical/tapered (pick your marketing term) seven cell and the original Sabre is a rectangular nine cell.

[Tonto 1]

Read all the "I love my ........" threads in this forum.

People buy what they buy for a reason. A personal dislike of mine is when someone asks "Spectre or Sabre" and people chime in with "Try the Onyx!" or other such suggestion unrelated to the choice asked.

I look at some people's gear and get the same feeling I do when some dude is going on about his beautiful (fat, ugly, whuffo) girlfriend.
Best to just shut up and say, "Nice!" Love is truely blind, and that's a good thing.

I can understand choices like "Safire 2, Pilot or Sabre 2" but your choice is between 2 very different canopies aimed at different sectors in the market. If you want to learn to swoop, as one of your other threads suggests, then I would advise you to gravitate towards canopies others are already swooping. While swooping a Spectre is indeed possible, I'm sure there are more people doing ok on the Sabre 2.

There. I said it.

Sabre 2.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[kosanke 0]

both are great canopies for different folks. i have a spectre 150 and a stiletto 150 loaded at 1.3. check the PD web site for comparisons. when i jump with camera equip on, i like the spectre. it has never given me an unpredictabe opening. always soft and on heading. higher desent angles and less forward float on flare. as you go ellipitical, some openings can be less predictable. a little more attention on packing and opening. the openings on my stiletto are great, but i still plan more for trouble on it than the spectre. landing- flatter glide and longer swoops. hope this helps. the sabre 2 is right between the spectre and stiletto. i've flown the sabre. great canopy also. why not demo them both to see what you like and would fit your needs. hope this helps.

[Deuce 1]

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I've heard so much about how ppl just love there Spectre and also there Sabre. Which canopy is better all around and whats the difference in performance.

I have two highly loaded Spectres. Originally got them because they have a reputation for good openings, and lots of famoso camera fliers have them.

I have NEVER been hit as hard as my friends who have been just clobbered by their almost-always docile Sabre II's.

Every time I start to get curious about the latest and greatest, that parachute will open so hard on a friend that I quickly get over it.

A very good friend of mine got hit by an opening so hard, with stills, flash, and video aboard by his Sabre II, that it nearly knocked him unconscious.

If your health depends on not getting cracked (if you're brittle) then a Spectre might be a better choice.

[skybytch 259]

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A very good friend of mine got hit by an opening so hard, with stills, flash, and video aboard by his Sabre II, that it nearly knocked him unconscious.

Another good friend of yours got hit by an opening so hard it broke lines and left her stunned for several hundred feet. On a Spectre.

Then she did it again a few weeks ago, not hard enough to break anything but hard enough that her neck is still feeling it. Again on a Spectre.

Any canopy can open hard.

That said, 99% of the time I love Spectre openings.

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[PROGRESSIVE 0]

I like my Sabre2, but the pack volume is noticeable due to the extra material. No big deal.

After the Sabre2 breaks in, 50 or so jumps, the openings seem to be consistently soft. It could be because I'm getting better at packing.

This canopy is slightly eliptical and can do radical stuff if you want it to. Sometimes on opening it does this diving turn and then mellows out. No big deal. Could be my packing.

Landings are fun, soft and easy.

[bodypilot1 0]

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That said, 99% of the time I love Spectre openings.

You mean 98%. Didn't it happen twice?



Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[skybytch 259]

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You mean 98%. Didn't it happen twice?

Twice in 300 jumps. That's about 99.335% happiness.

[Dumpster 0]

I've got over 300 jumps on Spectres and got thoroughly slammed this past weekend (some very sore ribs).

I concur - any canopy can slam ya!

[maggott 0]

Oh My God! That's scary!!! I jump a spectre loaded about at about 1.1... I bought it because of it's slow openings and I've never had anythign but great openings and landings on this thing (knocking on wood). This is important to me because I've had neck surgery... a fusion! I don't know what I'd do if I had such an opening as one that breaks lines and leaves you stunned!

what was the wing loading on that canopy? Was the slider collapsed! (probably not).

~Maggott
__________________________________________________________________________________
"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?"

[skydiverek 60]

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This is important to me because I've had neck surgery... a fusion! I don't know what I'd do if I had such an opening as one that breaks lines and leaves you stunned!

Below is a reply a wrote to someone who had back issues and needed advice on choosing a slow opening canopy:

"Hi there,

Yeah, Spectre would be perfect. Also, opt for Dacron lines, which strech more than Microline and have more friction when the slider grommets slide on them. Here is Performance Designs' opinion on them (from their website):

"Why would anyone want to use Dacron line on their canopy?

Though most people prefer the lower bulk and drag of Microline or Vectran, Dacron is often the best choice for some applications. Dacron is a fairly elastic line, so it gives a little when there is a sharp "spike" to the opening force. This elasticity won't change the really good openings very much, but it can take the edge off those occasional abrupt openings where your packing was a little off or your airspeed was a little high at opening time. Dacron may be preferable in a student operation, where unusual body positions can compound opening issues. Some camera flyers with very heavy helmets also prefer Dacron lines. Older jumpers, who may not want to subject their bodies to hard openings, may want Dacron to help reduce the impact should something get a little out of control at opening time."

Also, Bill Booth made some comments on that issue, too:

"Spectra (or micro-line) is strong and tiny, so it reduces both pack volume and drag , which means you get a smaller rig and a faster canopy. Unfortunately, It has a couple of "design characteristics" (this is manufacturer talk for "problems") It is very slippery (less friction to slow the slider), and stretches less than stainless steel. This is why it hurt people and broke so many mini risers when it was first introduced. Now, I must say that the canopy manufacturers did a wonderful job handling these "characteristics" by designing new canopies that opened much slower than their predecessors. However, the fact still remains, that if you do have a rare fast opening on a microlined canopy, Spectra (or Vectran) will transmit that force to you (and your rig) much, much faster, resulting in an opening shock up to 300% higher than if you have Dacron lines. (It's sort of like doing a bungee jump with a stainless steel cable. At the bottom of your fall, your body applies the same force to the steel cable as it would to a rubber bungee cord, but because steel doesn't stretch, your legs tears off.)"

Moreover, you can opt for lighter, brass slider groomets, instead of heavier, stainless steel slider groommets. Lighter mass equals less momentum (speed) down the lines. BTW, Precision Aerodynamics favors them, saying they contribute to softer openings.

Also, on their website Performance Designs says that "larger Spectres open slower than the smaller models".

So, to sum up, if I were you my choice would be large Spectre, Dacron lines, and brass slider grommets. Careful packing and deploying at no faster than 120mph (and not while tracking, especially steep tracking) will help, too. Some people also say that Psychopacking helps, but I am not sure about this.

Good luck and welcome back
Bart"

Also, read the post from user 'lauras' about fusion surgey, spectre and lining it with dacron for softer openings, here:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1324436#1324436

and

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=890252#890252

Moreover, PD published a ".PDF" document "How to prevent hard openings" here: http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/hrdopn.pdf

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[darkwing 4]

This is a comparison of apples and oranges. They are quite different canopies. Im pretty sure the resale value on a Spectre will be better than a Sabre I(?).

On the slammer note, I have one slammer in 600 Spectre jumps. As said above, ANY canopy can slam you.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[skybytch 259]

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what was the wing loading on that canopy?

Between 1.0 and 1.1.

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Was the slider collapsed!

No.

The first one was on a canopy with 1100+ jumps, the second on one with 250 jumps. I know the second one was packing, I roll the tail much tighter now. Don't know for sure what caused the first one but I suspect packing as well.

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I don't know what I'd do if I had such an opening as one that breaks lines and leaves you stunned!

Probably what I did - say "ow! %&$&" ow!" several times and then deal with getting to the ground safely.

I too choose the Spectre largely due to the nice openings. I've had a spinal fusion as well (lower back).

[ltdiver 3]

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A very good friend of mine got hit by an opening so hard, with stills, flash, and video aboard by his Sabre II, that it nearly knocked him unconscious.

Another good friend of yours got hit by an opening so hard it broke lines and left her stunned for several hundred feet. On a Spectre.

Then she did it again a few weeks ago, not hard enough to break anything but hard enough that her neck is still feeling it. Again on a Spectre.

Any canopy can open hard.

That said, 99% of the time I love Spectre openings.

Both my Spectres open a bit faster than I'd like with all my camera stuff on my head....so, unlike most people who jump this canopy, I pack my Spectre to open -even slower- than a regular pack job would give me.
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[maxmadmax 8]

My first demo was a Spectre.....hard opening....knocked my ass out....saw stars and then awoke.....

So that's why I bought one!

Don't go away mad....just go away!

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

In my personal opinion ...

Sabre 1's SUCK!

Spectres are awesome!

I put about 500 jumps on my Spectre and I had one smacky opening because I deserved it and probably rushed the pack job but all the others were soft, beautiful and on heading.

I put about 5 jumps on a Sabre 1 and that was literally 4 jumps too many because 4 out of 5 of them slammed me, one to the point that I saw stars.

I have flewn the Sabre2 and like it more than the Sabre but if I was a novice canopy pilot I would choose the Spectre. If I was an experienced canopy pilot I would buy the Stiletto.

I love my Stiletto

Edited to give another view and be fair:
I should add that my SO has a Sabre 1, he is a gear hound, master rigger and probably jumped everything under the sun. He LOVES his Sabre1 and says it opens beautifullly for him all the time because he knows how to pack it. I guess it depends on the particular canopy you get and if you know how to treat it, but I guess the Sabre just didn't like me as much as my Spectre or my Stiletto.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[Deuce 1]

LEEEEEEEsah!

I've been pounded by my Spectre's too, a few times. But getting pounded by a Spectre is nothing like being pounded by a Velocity, or to a lesser extent, a Sabre II.

Iwan VideoScooter is the guy who was blasted that I was talking about. He is younger and tougher than me. He was THRASHED by that opening. Way more so that the very worst opening I've had on my Spectre's.

Yes, when I'm due, I'm going dacron.

I'm more about free fall.

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[NoShitThereIWas 0]

By the way, if you want to get an in depth explanation of the performance characteristics of both the Sabre and the Spectre, I would recommend visiting the PD website, should be www.performancedesigns.com. On that website PD does a pretty good job at explaining and comparing the different types of canopies and their recommendations for your weight and experience level.

Also, it used to be for about $20 they will mail you a canopy that you can hook up to a compatable container if you ask them to demo it and you can try different canopies to see which one you like best. The staff over at PD is very helpful and I think they can lead you in a good direction.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[crazydiver 0]

It's all relative. To me, the perfect opening is 500 feet. 300 feet may be a slammer. 600 feet or more, and I feel as though I am wasting altitude sniveling. A slammer opening on a spectre may be 600 feet, which in my opinino is just longer than perfect. I had a sabre 135 for 200 or so jumps and only had a few openings that were less than choice, I never had any that knocked my socks off.

Cheers,
Travis

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I've heard so much about how ppl just love there Spectre and also there Sabre. Which canopy is better all around and whats the difference in performance.

I have been jumping a Spectre ( a 210 until 30 jumps ago and now a 170) since before I was off student status. Though I have low jump numbers, I have been packing my own rig since then. I have packed quite a few "trash packs" and have never had a hard opening. That being said, friends of mine HAVE had hard Spectre openings.

In any case, I have been more than satisfied with my Spectre. It opens nice and flies great.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[TomSpoon 2]

Maggott,
If you've had neck surgery.You definitely want dacron lines on your Spectre. I got them after having C4-C5 fused. Also you should have dacron on your reserve. A terminal reserve opening WILL be hard.