deltron80 0 #1 October 5, 2010 http://www.komonews.com/news/national/103859944.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #2 October 5, 2010 Quotehttp://www.komonews.com/news/national/103859944.html Holy Crap!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #3 October 5, 2010 Quote http://www.komonews.com/news/national/103859944.html It is incredibly hard to judge your height over reallllly clear lakes whether in an aircraft or in a parachute. OR maybe they were just trying to get a quick wash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #4 October 5, 2010 I wonder how much farther he could have descended under the water before the rotors became immersed and the aircraft went down. That was freaking ballsy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #5 October 5, 2010 QuoteI wonder how much farther he could have descended under the water before the rotors became immersed and the aircraft went down. That was freaking ballsy. I am betting that if the exhaust and intake were not impeded, that the rotors would keep it from sinking.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #6 October 5, 2010 I'm not a helo pilot, but I've heard there's a condition where, in a hover down low, the rotors can start picking up "rotors" from their own downwash. This causes them to lose lift in a dramatic fashion, almost like generating their own microburst. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #7 October 5, 2010 QuoteI'm not a helo pilot, but I've heard there's a condition where, in a hover down low, the rotors can start picking up "rotors" from their own downwash. This causes them to lose lift in a dramatic fashion, almost like generating their own microburst. It's called Vortex Ring State, also known as "settling under power." Not a good thing to encounter down low. Wiki Clicky"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TiaDanger 0 #8 October 5, 2010 I live near Lake Tahoe and its been on the news for a few weeks, but the cause still has been very hush hush. I'm also surprised that the rotors remained above water...would have been a completely different video had they hit the water And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant. D.S. #8.8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hvance 0 #9 October 5, 2010 I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 October 5, 2010 Quote I'm not a helo pilot, but I've heard there's a condition where, in a hover down low, the rotors can start picking up "rotors" from their own downwash. This causes them to lose lift in a dramatic fashion, almost like generating their own microburst. I have been under a HELL of a lot of helicopters hovering just a few feet off the water and on land. We had to demonstrate the correct procedure to our students over and over and over for EVERY class we had at the survival school at Fairchild and at HomesteadAFB. Every student had to get underneath a hovering chopper and get lifted into it. It was a core requirement to be able to approach the forest tree penetrator or a rescue sling properly and get into it right. We almost exclusively used N model Hueys ( twin turbine engine and yeah it was 30+ years ago) from the local Pararescue squadrons. I never saw one go down like that but I am sure they would have loved to dunk their huey in fresh water to get all the salt water from Biscayne Bay washed out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #11 October 5, 2010 I'm not sure I see the "Problem" , hell even the title says "Practicing" ... who here has not fucked up during "practice"? Plus only one went too low! Now if they did not have clearance to be in the air space , we have a problem! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #12 October 5, 2010 Quote Quote I'm not a helo pilot, but I've heard there's a condition where, in a hover down low, the rotors can start picking up "rotors" from their own downwash. This causes them to lose lift in a dramatic fashion, almost like generating their own microburst. I have been under a HELL of a lot of helicopters hovering just a few feet off the water and on land. We had to demonstrate the correct procedure to our students over and over and over for EVERY class we had at the survival school at Fairchild and at HomesteadAFB. Every student had to get underneath a hovering chopper and get lifted into it. It was a core requirement to be able to approach the forest tree penetrator or a rescue sling properly and get into it right. We almost exclusively used N model Hueys ( twin turbine engine and yeah it was 30+ years ago) from the local Pararescue squadrons. I never saw one go down like that but I am sure they would have loved to dunk their huey in fresh water to get all the salt water from Biscayne Bay washed out Vortex ring state doesn't happen all the time, or even much of the time. It takes a certain set of conditions to happen. I only fly scale rotorcraft, not the big ones, so I'm not real certain how often it happens. But when it does happen, things get really bad really fast."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #13 October 5, 2010 Quote Now if they did not have clearance to be in the air space , we have a problem! Much of the airspace in this country is Class E and G, and requires no clearance to fly in it. These helos were definitely in Class G. Now whether or not whoever administers that lake is pissed about dunking a dirty helo into their nice clean lake . . .Plus I'm sure the CO for these guys has a few words about doing unauthorized maneuvers with some very expensive birds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #14 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Quote I'm not a helo pilot, but I've heard there's a condition where, in a hover down low, the rotors can start picking up "rotors" from their own downwash. This causes them to lose lift in a dramatic fashion, almost like generating their own microburst. I have been under a HELL of a lot of helicopters hovering just a few feet off the water and on land. We had to demonstrate the correct procedure to our students over and over and over for EVERY class we had at the survival school at Fairchild and at HomesteadAFB. Every student had to get underneath a hovering chopper and get lifted into it. It was a core requirement to be able to approach the forest tree penetrator or a rescue sling properly and get into it right. We almost exclusively used N model Hueys ( twin turbine engine and yeah it was 30+ years ago) from the local Pararescue squadrons. I never saw one go down like that but I am sure they would have loved to dunk their huey in fresh water to get all the salt water from Biscayne Bay washed out Vortex ring state doesn't happen all the time, or even much of the time. It takes a certain set of conditions to happen. I only fly scale rotorcraft, not the big ones, so I'm not real certain how often it happens. But when it does happen, things get really bad really fast. I am REALLLY glad one never did over my head... as you hang out there motioning the next student to get his ass over.... and not grab the damn metal thing before it grounds.... and that he is doing everything right to get on the penetrator and put the strap around his body under his arms.... all while a chopper is hovering 15 ft over your head .. we would not want to get one of those million dollar airplane driver college boys hurt ya know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #15 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Now if they did not have clearance to be in the air space , we have a problem! Much of the airspace in this country is Class E and G, and requires no clearance to fly in it. These helos were definitely in Class G. Now whether or not whoever administers that lake is pissed about dunking a dirty helo into their nice clean lake . . .Plus I'm sure the CO for these guys has a few words about doing unauthorized maneuvers with some very expensive birds. IF they were not actually "training" Yep , I'd love to hear that CO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #16 October 6, 2010 vortex ring state requires 20 to 100% power applied , zero or very near zero iarspeed and a sustained 2 to 300 fpm rod. it is most often encountered ingressing into tight confined areas. with a fair amount of altitude it is easily recovered if entered into. within a couple rotorlengths of the surface it's nearly impossible to recover from. the problem is exacerbated when the pilot sensing the uncommanded sink rate attempts to correct with the application of more power. this accelerates the effects of settling with power. and yes the helo essentially instantly reingests it's own downwash. the lake looks calm apart from their rototwash. so 2 of the necessary requirements are almost certainly present. any helicopter divers will also have an interest in youtube under ochanimal skyrapping. i can be imposed upon to link it. the pilot is yt! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeJD 0 #17 October 6, 2010 Wow. If you're going to do something like that, you really want something like this. Similar incident, but in a machine equippped for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #18 October 6, 2010 QuoteI have been under a HELL of a lot of helicopters hovering just a few feet off the water and on land. We had to demonstrate the correct procedure to our students over and over and over for EVERY class we had at the survival school at Fairchild and at HomesteadAFB. I went through the USAF Water Survival School at Homestead in 1973. You may have been there then. You are right about being in the water under a hovering helo. It is an experience like no other. I felt like I was in a blender. I think I was breathing more water than air. It would certainly suck to have the aircraft sink down on top of you. Kevin K. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #19 October 6, 2010 Dude,,link us up !! lets see you in action... smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowapproach 0 #20 October 6, 2010 I asked a friend about this and he said that Navy helos would practice maneuvers similar to this for boats to drive in to. I think he mentioned they had done it on side door aircraft such as the hh60, but I found this video of a chinook doing a fast boat extraction. http://wn.com/Chinook_Picking_up_Navy_Seals Cool stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #21 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote I have been under a HELL of a lot of helicopters hovering just a few feet off the water and on land. We had to demonstrate the correct procedure to our students over and over and over for EVERY class we had at the survival school at Fairchild and at HomesteadAFB. I went through the USAF Water Survival School at Homestead in 1973. You may have been there then. You are right about being in the water under a hovering helo. It is an experience like no other. I felt like I was in a blender. I think I was breathing more water than air. It would certainly suck to have the aircraft sink down on top of you. Kevin K. I went there in 1972 as a student . The parasails were the very first time I was ever under a canopy. My first two landings under a canopy were in the water I did not get back there as an instructor till a few years later I was also there in the summer.. when the water was warm and the sun was hot. Sitting there in the sun after the parasail ride was relaxing.. bouncing around in the little one man raft. THEN here comes the huey...I was already used to being under one on land.. but yeah...sitting under there crawling out of the raft making sure there was water in the raft and it was disconnected so it did not do anything you or the chopper crew would regret.... and just having fun in the CLASS 3 hurricane under the chopper.Trust me.. in the winter.... when the air temp is 45 degrees and the water temp is about 60.... its not quite as much fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #22 October 6, 2010 Quote Trust me.. in the winter.... when the air temp is 45 degrees and the water temp is about 60.... its not quite as much fun. I hear ya. I was there in January. They gave me an exposure suit full of holes. It was just as cold, but held about 30 lbs. of water when filled up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shoot 0 #23 October 6, 2010 looks more like LTE to me... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #24 October 6, 2010 Quote Quote Trust me.. in the winter.... when the air temp is 45 degrees and the water temp is about 60.... its not quite as much fun. I hear ya. I was there in January. They gave me an exposure suit full of holes. It was just as cold, but held about 30 lbs. of water when filled up. I HATED those things.. at least they issued the instructors wetsuits.... 1/8".. yeah.. at least they were wind proof. I do not know what the wind chill was when zooming around on the boats.... or under the choppers.. or hell just the really windy conditions while sitting out there in the various rafts.. but when you are soaking wet... hypothermia was never very far away that time of year. Miami is supposed to be warm right??? I think the coldest I ever got in my life was down there during training phases. I was at least warm and dry when I went thru the Cool School at Eilson AFB in Dec Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #25 October 6, 2010 Quote Wow. If you're going to do something like that, you really want something like this. Similar incident, but in a machine equippped for it. THAT is awesome - look at the last two pictures - looks like they shat themselves.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
