OVERLOADING RESERVES

[SKYDIVE 0]

I've seen so many people jumping small reserves so they can fit into small containers (fashion)when they are overloading the msw by 20 lbs and more (I've seen guys jumping a 120 with a exit weight of 240 lbs).
What are the chances of failure on a high speed malfuntion ?
What other dangers may exist ?

[Praetorian 1]

I've seen this a lot, I asked a very experienced jumper about AADs, got good advice then asked if he had one... the answer.(paraphrase) "It's only real purpose on a senior skydiver is if I get knocked cold/incapacitaied, my reserve is so loaded that I probabily would not survive a landing under those conditions anyway" REALLY MADE ME WONDER

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I've seen so many people jumping small reserves so they can fit into small containers (fashion)

Not always fashion. Most containers reserve size restricted by the main size. I know of a few people who simply cannot fit a larger reserve in the container sized for their main.

It's the reason PD's new reserve material is of such interest. In theory people could upsize (I know I will) their reserves and still have a container sized to their main.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Canuck 0]

This whole "no point in an AAD with a highly loaded reserve" argument doesn't really hold water.

Even "senior" skydivers fuck up. I think you would find that far more Cypres saves have happened due to loss of altitude awareness than due to an incapacitated skydiver (i.e. knocked-out).



Canuck

[sid 1]

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What are the chances of failure on a high speed malfuntion ?
What other dangers may exist ?

Ask my buddy Jay..... oh wait, you can't! His fucking reserve blew up and killed him (still miss you Jay)

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[diablopilot 2]

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What are the chances of failure on a high speed malfuntion ?

Failure? Reduced.

Malfunction? Higher.

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What other dangers may exist ?

Landing a high wingloading on an unfamiliar canopy while probably not at the "top" of your game.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 2,400]

>What are the chances of failure on a high speed malfuntion ?

Depends far more on the make than on the size. Older (unmodified) Super Ravens are more likely to fail than PD reserves (in my opinion, anyway.) The big issue is speed when you deploy it - if you're a big guy, are wearing a skintight suit, and cut away after fussing with a baglock for 2000 feet, you're going to have problems no matter what you jump.

I've heard some very experienced riggers express the opinion that, all things being equal, larger canopies malfunction more often than smaller canopies. This was certainly true when I was doing tandems (we had a lot of main mals and one reserve mal) but I haven't observed the same effect on sport rigs.

>What other dangers may exist ?

If you find yourself needing your reserve you will likely be lower than normal. Which means your odds of having to land in someone's backyard is higher. I'd much rather have my current reserve (a PD143) than my main (a Nitro 108) if I had to land in a backyard. But given the choice between a PD113 and the Nitro 108 I'd take the Nitro - it has more flare power and I'm more familiar with it down low.

[airtwardo 6]

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>What are the chances of failure on a high speed malfuntion ?

***

Question Bill~

My reserves are all older F111 Strong G3's

Which is 270 sqft. 7 cell.

My concern is that during a demo...at times
I'm 320+ out the door with extra gear.

I've used the G3's and had soft on heading
no problem openings...
Now this canopy design was the prototype for the first tandem reserves and is extremely over built.

What's out there now..in zpo that will fill my needs
since I'm ordering new containers shortly and
obviously nothing will fit an old G3...not that I would want to keep them anyway...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JonBonGraham 0]

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I've heard some very experienced riggers express the opinion that, all things being equal, larger canopies malfunction more often than smaller canopies. This was certainly true when I was doing tandems... but I haven't observed the same effect on sport rigs.

What about when you consider the type of malfunction? If we're talking about malfunctions on reserves then surely we should discount malfunctions such as severe line-twists on small mains that are a direct result of a canopy being elliptical/high performance as this is much less likely (although I'm not sure how much less likely) to cause a malfunction on a reserve?

Durham University Freefall Club

Grounds For Divorce website (band I'm in)

[sundevil777 93]

I think that line twists will be more likely and more severe with highly loaded reserves.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[mjosparky 3]

Jim,

You are not going to find anything that is rated at more than about 300 pounds. And ZP is out, there is only one made and it is a hybrids made by Precision, I think. And ZP when it fails, it fails big time.

One thing you might consider is a quick release on the demo equipment if case you have to go to your reserve.

Other wise, suck it up big boy, that’s why they pay you the high dollars.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[airtwardo 6]

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Jim,

You are not going to find anything that is rated at more than about 300 pounds. And ZP is out, there is only one made and it is a hybrids made by Precision, I think. And ZP when it fails, it fails big time.

One thing you might consider is a quick release on the demo equipment if case you have to go to your reserve.

Other wise, suck it up big boy, that’s why they pay you the high dollars.

Sparky

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Everything HAS quick releases..
But Murphy lurks!




Besides....you've SEEN me pack!


...and that was my 'special care' for opening~
"Winter Time Over The Ocean"
Pack Job!!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[70sdiver 0]

well im trading my 1999 raven IV for a pd -281 from all ive read on here its a better canopy and pd informed me that they tested the canopy way past 300 lbs and higher deployment speeds.Ids there an advantage in getting a white reserve i was thinking of getting it in blue.

[mjosparky 3]

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Jim,

You are not going to find anything that is rated at more than about 300 pounds. And ZP is out, there is only one made and it is a hybrids made by Precision, I think. And ZP when it fails, it fails big time.

One thing you might consider is a quick release on the demo equipment if case you have to go to your reserve.

Other wise, suck it up big boy, that’s why they pay you the high dollars.

Sparky

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Everything HAS quick releases..
But Murphy lurks!



Besides....you've SEEN me pack!


...and that was my 'special care' for opening~
"Winter Time Over The Ocean"
Pack Job!!

Oh No, not the "special care" pack job.

Got a demo off today and the landing area was huge. But they insisted on paying us any how.

Ain't life grand.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[airtwardo 6]

Ids there an advantage in getting a white reserve i was thinking of getting it in blue.

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They say less weight...with a PD~281,
I wouldn't be overly concerned!


...All my reserves match the mains exactly in color
pattern, that way only the person washing
my drawers, knows I had a function!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mjosparky 3]

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well im trading my 1999 raven IV for a pd -281 from all ive read on here its a better canopy and pd informed me that they tested the canopy way past 300 lbs and higher deployment speeds.Ids there an advantage in getting a white reserve i was thinking of getting it in blue.

They list the max weight as 300 pounds so it was tested to at least 360 pounds. And the speed was at least 180 knots or 207 mph.

There is no advantage to a white reserve that I know of.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[cheneyneel 0]

IF you look at the specs on the pd113R it is not much less than the 281.. why are some of the same size reserves TSO'd at lower or higher weights than others???......(the same size ones anyways)

[stratostar 5]

an advantage in getting a white reserve (quote)

Chicks dig it.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[nitrochute 2]

white reserve would be slightly lighter and less bulky due to no color dye in the fabric

[BIGUN 1,053]

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Not always fashion. Most containers reserve size restricted by the main size. I know of a few people who simply cannot fit a larger reserve in the container sized for their main.

Have to disagree. The manufacturers will accomodate the main and reserve to specifications. IF you need a 249-M and jump a 135, they'll do it.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[riggerrob 558]

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IF you look at the specs on the pd113R it is not much less than the 281.. why are some of the same size reserves TSO'd at lower or higher weights than others???......(the same size ones anyways)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

All reserves have to demonstrate openings at heavy weights and high speeds, but manufacturers do not expect large, fat guy's ankles to survive landing tiny reserves.

[mjosparky 3]

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IF you look at the specs on the pd113R it is not much less than the 281.. why are some of the same size reserves TSO'd at lower or higher weights than others???......(the same size ones anyways)

It is up to the manufacture. As long as they test to the minimum required weight and speed.
Minimum test speed is 180 knots for a maximum operating speed of 220 knots.
Minimum test weight is 264 pounds for a maximum operating weight of 220 pounds.
The manufacture can choose to go higher but can’t go lower.

Hope this helps.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 558]

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I think that line twists will be more likely and more severe with highly loaded reserves.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes, but rectangular reserves will never spin up as bad as tapered mains.

[riggerrob 558]

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well im trading my 1999 raven IV for a pd -281 from all ive read on here its a better canopy and pd informed me that they tested the canopy way past 300 lbs and higher deployment speeds.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am tired of posters parroting PD's advertising hype, because every manufacturer tests heavier and faster than placarded limits.
t is written into the TSO testing process.
I lost count of how many 340 + pound dummies I released from a B-25 bomber flying at 205 knots. We would have tested at higher airspeeds, but that was as fast as the B-25 would fly with the bomb bay doors open.

Towards the end of the drop test program, we piled on more and more weight - until we ran out of lead ingots - and we still could not tear P-124A prototypes.
We had to call in a CASA to drop the heaviest dummies.

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[katzurki 0]

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And ZP is out, there is only one made and it is a hybrids made by Precision, I think. And ZP when it fails, it fails big time.

There is an ugly Russian reserve, 9-cell and all-ZP. Killed more than one person...now banned on most DZs.