PE Saber 180.....experiences? Positives or negatives

[csc 0]

Hi Guys,

First post for me........... :-)

I'm new to the sport with only 35 jumps and have made a decision to persue further and jump more regularly.

No more rental gear!! yea!!

I'm looking at buying a PD Saber 180 which has had less than 50 jumps all up.

I inspected the gear and everything looks brand new but will get experienced friends to inspect before I buy.

The shute was made in '97 and was in storage after the owner was overseas for 6 years. Hasn't been opened for quite some time.

It's a bad time of the year to ask experienced jumpers here as everyone I know is away on vacation currently and those that I have asked know little or nothing about this shute type.

Here are my basic questions:

Anyone own this model? Please advise your experiences, pos or neg.

Anything specific that I should be aware of with this main?

Does the issue of hard openings that I have seen on forums relate to this model as well?

And if so will a larger slider help as with other models I have read about.


Any advice on your experiences with this outfit or its long time lack of use will be greatly received so i can follow up with my instructor in Jan, 05.

Cheers from Australia.

[PhreeZone 15]

Are you refering to a Performance Designs (PD) Sabre? If so they came in either 170 square feet or 190 sq ft. There is no 180 model.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[FrogNog 1]

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Anyone own this model? Please advise your experiences, pos or neg.

I don't own a PD Sabre; I jumped a PD Sabre 190 and I loved the smooth front riser flying and the great flare power. Otherwise it felt like it flew like a Triathlon with a flatter glide. The forums did not lie about its openings and for that reason alone, I will never own a PD Sabre. I am personally concerned that even if I tamed it by slider, packing, and black magic, a crippling (literally) opening with my name on it (figuratively) could be in there one day.

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Anything specific that I should be aware of with this main?

*cough*searchforums*cough*

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Does the issue of hard openings that I have seen on forums relate to this model as well?

YMMV. Also, Phree's query about whether this is really a real canopy, and if so whether you mean it is a PD Sabre 170 or 190 or what, adds to this question. My advice is to jump it and see. If you pack it yourself, the seller isn't putting magic open-slow dust in there when you aren't looking.

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And if so will a larger slider help as with other models I have read about.

YMMV.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[BIGUN 1,069]

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Anyone own this model? Please advise your experiences, pos or neg.

I don't think anyone owns this

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Anything specific that I should be aware of with this main?

That its not a 180?

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Does the issue of hard openings that I have seen on forums relate to this model as well?

If it exists, probably.

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And if so will a larger slider help as with other models I have read about.

Depends. Could make things better, could make things worse.


Now, that I've given you the smart-aleck answers... Welcome to skydiving, where almost everyone will take jabs (expecially here). I do strongly suggest that the forums are not a good place for getting your first gear purchase advice. Your best avenue is going to be a complimentary blend of local Instructor and Rigger advice.

WHile you may be a bit off on the nomenclature of the Sabre (its probably a 190), what you do need to consider is HOW was it stored for six years and have a rigger thoroughly inspect it for mildew, porsity, etc. Being stored for six years ain't the same as being stored properly for six years.

And, please fill out your profile.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[dropzonefool 0]

And, please fill out your profile. <<

Ditto, the hard openings I believe were caused by poor packing. PD considers a 170 as an entry level high performance canopy, I hope it is a 190 your going to buy/jump. Mildew is a serious consideration with a canopy being not used and "stored" for 6 years. take heed, have a rigger do a PH test, and a thourough inspection for you. (thourgh inspections means $) Tip the rigger. (rigger is the word, not your buddies or higher level jumpers) they may be good people but definitely need a rigger to inspect the canopy.
question, are you happy with the colors?
Have you ever flown a ZP canopy yet?

J

[Kris 0]

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And, please fill out your profile. <<

Ditto, the hard openings I believe were caused by poor packing. PD considers a 170 as an entry level high performance canopy, I hope it is a 190 your going to buy/jump. Mildew is a serious consideration with a canopy being not used and "stored" for 6 years. take heed, have a rigger do a PH test, and a thourough inspection for you. (thourgh inspections means $) Tip the rigger. (rigger is the word, not your buddies or higher level jumpers) they may be good people but definitely need a rigger to inspect the canopy.
question, are you happy with the colors?
Have you ever flown a ZP canopy yet?

Sabres are known hard openers, packing aside. Especially with the ones from 96 (I believe that's the year) and before.

Also, PH tests aren't done on ZP.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[FrogNog 1]

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Mildew is a serious consideration with a canopy being not used and "stored" for 6 years.

Does mildew do anything bad to ZP and untreated nylon other than discolor it and make it stink?

If not, I suppose "serious" would depend on your point of view.

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Pull.

[BIGUN 1,069]

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Does mildew do anything bad to ZP and untreated nylon other than discolor it and make it stink?

Mildew does bad things to steel - if left long enough.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[csc 0]

Hey guys thanks for the replies.

You are right, its a 190 not 180.

I'll have a rigger inspect next week.

maybe abit to hot for me just yet but if it turns out to be in tip top shape i will buy as its a steal at the price offered to me as the guy has left the sport and just wants to close a deal. hes happy to have it inspected beforehand so that will help me greatly.

Cheers.

[riggerrob 558]

Stop picking on Sabres.
I have hundreds of jumps on Sabre 179, 150 and 135. They only opened hard when I packed sloppily. I also know several big guys who love their Sabre 190s
Ask your local rigger about sewing lips or flags on Sabre sliders to tame the openings.

[ove 0]

Hello!

Jumped a saber 190, loaded 1,1 from student status. A bit fast, but if you do nice stady no turn landings it should be ok.

Hard openings, steady to fly, good flare. And you can get some speed using frontriser "pull ups"!! jumped mine for 200 jumps before downsizing.

It all comes down to your "opening sensibility".

Do, or do not. There is no try.

[CygnusX-1 42]

The one thing that wasn't mentioned here yet is get used to clearing closed end cells. About 80% of my openings have had closed end cells - no real big deal, this canopy flies fine on 7 cells.

As far as hard openings: mind your packing. I've has some incredibly soft openings with mine, but it has also knocked the s**t out of me too. Luckily I was over a wooded area and it landed harmlessly on a bird’s head.

My biggest complaint is with a 0.92 wing loading, it turns very slowly. But I think that is also good if you are just starting to learn. You won't find yourself horizontal with the canopy.

Look at my stats (my low # of jumps) and take what I have written for what it's worth....

[bmcd308 0]

>>I have hundreds of jumps on Sabre 179<<

Lots of odd sized canopies mentioned in this thread.

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[riggerrob 558]

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>>I have hundreds of jumps on Sabre 179<<

Lots of odd sized canopies mentioned in this thread.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Oops!
That was a typographical error.

I meant to say "Sabre 170."

[GravityGirl 0]

But I agree with your origial post.

Stop picking on Sabres. I progressed from 190 to 170 to 150 to 135 Sabres and never got smacked.

I'm not saying that the slammers aren't out there, but I don't think they are as common as virtual reality would have you believe.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[skybytch 259]

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A bit fast, but if you do nice stady no turn landings it should be ok.

Do you know csc? Do you know how much csc weighs or the msl altitude at csc's dropzone? Do you know what kind of canopy control training csc has received? Have you ever seen csc fly and land a parachute?

If you haven't, how can you possibly tell csc "it should be ok"?

[stratostar 5]

AMEN brother!
Got two 170's and about 20lbs of shit on my head wouldn't use them for camera if it was a whacker!

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[billvon 2,426]

>Stop picking on Sabres.

It's important to understand the history of sabres before picking on them for hard openings.

When sabres first hit the scene, a slow opening was a sign of a worn-out canopy. When your Cruislite started taking 1000 feet to open, then it was time to replace it - and since people were pulling at 1800 feet (no cypreses back then) a 1000 foot snivel was a big deal.

So when the sabre first came out it was designed as a fast opening canopy. After a lot of sore backs PD started to re-think the fast opening thing, and increased the size of the slider to slow them down (around 1994 I think.) This helped a lot. (They did some other tricks with the larger sizes to slow them down, like split brake line stows.)

I got my first Sabre (a 150) in 1994, and it had the small slider. Hard openings were the norm. After a few brutal ones I got the larger slider, and they got much better. Still wasn't perfect so I decided to mess with the canopy trim. I just ended up making things worse (and the lineset had 800 jumps on it anyway) so I sent it in for a reline.

When it came back it was back to hard openings even with the larger slider. I put a pocket on the slider and the openings got very slow. As the new lineset shrunk they got even slower (odd) and so I took off the pocket. After about 1500 jumps Amy inherited the canopy, and a combination of her packing (she was willing to spend more time packing it than I was) and her size (taller/less weight meant slower freefall speeds during deployment) gave her good openings. She was happy with it until it blew a seam at around jump 2200.

Since then I've jumped a few different sizes of Sabre 1 and they've ranged from very nice openings to slammers. It depends on the age of the canopy's lineset, the size of the slider (larger is softer) and the size of the canopy (larger is usually harder, especially on old ones.) The openings were never as nice as a Pilot's but almost always nicer than my Nova 150, which had an oversized slider _and_ a huge pocket.

As beginner/intermediate canopies go they're not bad; it all depends on what you want for a canopy. You will likely have to spend more care to get a good opening, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at lower experience levels. Also, a well-worn canopy like a used Sabre 1 is going to be a lot easier to learn to pack than a slick-as-snot new Sabre 2.