climber71 0 #26 December 15, 2012 Thanks popsjumper, yes do know that if the pilot or instructor tells the jumpers get out now, to exit at that time. Just wanted to see it there were people that have been through it as to have good discussions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #27 December 17, 2012 Here's something you can take to everyone on your DZ... In an aircraft emergency situation, your job is to stay seated, put your helmet on, take care of the seat belt, and STFU and listen to the jump master whether he be the pilot, your instructor, a designated JM or the most experienced at the door.! Unbelievably, every situation I have been on that had us prepare for bailout, there were people yelling, people jumping up to tighten leg straps and people gazing out the windows trying to see what the problem was. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andym148 2 #28 December 17, 2012 Heres one for the AFF-I's? We were in Deland recently with a load of AFF students, we had a student who as it turned out was not that keen to jump. When the door opened on jump run, his hands went on to the grab rail that runs along the top of the windows on the inside of the Pac; and credit due to him we couldn't get his hands off that rail! Thankfully there was no emergencyand we landed without further incident, but when we got back to the team room we started to discuss all the "what if's....". What would you do as an Instructor, if on an aircraft emergency your student will not go for any reason? As the clash sang...."should i stay or should i go now?" Do you stay with the student or do you get out? I came to the conclusion that my will to live will be greater than my students grip and he WILL be leaving the aircraft! My first aircraft emergency, was in an MI-8 helicopter in Russia. We were climbing to altitude and then all of a sudden my helmet that was on the floor was suddenly floating at chest height! And then the door of the cockpit was flung open and the flight engineer started shouting at us. Now i dont speak Russian, and i'm not the smartest person in the world but i guessed what ever he was shouting was roughly translated to "get the F**k out"! Even with all the alarms going of and all the shouting that was going on around me, i still found time to find this funny! There was a tandem that was not hooked up being pushed towards the open door, the student was quite rightly pushing back, while the TI was quite rightly trying to get the hell out of there and pushing him closer to the door! I remember seeing the last of the lumber straps being tightened as they went head first out of the small door at the front. I got out into complete cloud at a nice and safe 8k, how ever somewhere in the cloud was 20+ jumpers and a rather large helicopter auto rotating back to the DZ which was somewhere in the general vicinity? Thankfully my nerve held until i came out of the clouds at 3k, i pitched and opened just at the edge of the DZ....and not over the sprawling industrial area not far from the DZ. From then on i make a point of keeping an eye out of the window so 'I KNOW where the DZ is at all times', and i keep a mentality of "what if...." and i keep an eye out for where i'd tell people to land if we ever have to bail out again. At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 176 #29 December 17, 2012 Most DZ's are out in the middle of huge flat areas. If you have to bail out it's not an issue, your alti is correct. However in some DZ's you will be climbing out over some pretty tall hills and large mountains. Nothing like getting an order to bail at 2000 while you're over a 1600 ft mountain. It's always wise to look out the window once in a while during the climb. At some DZ's it includes being over water, populated areas or other landing hazards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,393 #30 December 17, 2012 Quote Here's something you can take to everyone on your DZ... In an aircraft emergency situation, your job is to stay seated, put your helmet on, take care of the seat belt, and STFU and listen to the jump master whether he be the pilot, your instructor, a designated JM or the most experienced at the door.! Unbelievably, every situation I have been on that had us prepare for bailout, there were people yelling, people jumping up to tighten leg straps and people gazing out the windows trying to see what the problem was. In my case, once the a/c started flip-flopping around the sky, we all came to the same conclusion: The pilot was no longer "In Command" of the a/c. And since it was obvious the stall was caused by aft-CG, getting rid of the weight in the tail was to the pilot''s benefit. There have been some jump run stall-spin cases in the past where few or none of the jumpers were able to get out. I know a guy who was in an a/c that did a jump-run stall/spin. He was sitting right next to the open door, but was pinned against the wall so hard he couldn't move. Had the pilot not recovered from the spin, he would have been dead."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #31 December 17, 2012 True. Sometimes you gotta take what you can get, eh? My floater bail was not determined by anybody other than the six of us outside. When the plane shuddered and the left wing dipped, it was time to go...and we did. Oh and one more....I was first diver. Same thing with the shudder and the dip, I took three with me when I left. The other first diver took two. Camera guy took care of himself.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #32 December 18, 2012 Hinckley, July 4, 1994. Porter. At 2,000, the plane shuddered (not sure how else to put it), and the pilot said exactly that "Get out of the plane now." We did. Everyone, inlcuding the plane, landed safely in a beanfield. Apparently a small screw broke in the elvatator. The pilot was able to obtain another screw and repair the plane in the field. We resumed jumping it that same day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
climber71 0 #33 December 18, 2012 popsjumper you advice , and others is sound. Just getting a good topic to make things interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #34 December 18, 2012 Yes...and good job too. Talking safety is ALWAYS a good thing. Thanks for generating some important discussion.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
climber71 0 #35 December 18, 2012 It is winter in Ohio, so this also helps me keep my mind focused on skydiving. May take some time and fly to Florida. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #36 December 18, 2012 Quotepopsjumper you advice , and others is sound. Just getting a good topic to make things interesting. In that vein, I'll add to this discussion... Back in the day, (It's always a good idea to find a soft chair when I start a story this way) it was a windy day so we were, as we often did, sitting around going thru safety scenarios. One of the very experienced, highly respected jumpers brought up an interesting “what if”… “You’re in the plane, the door is open, it’s spinning and about to crash and you cannot get out. Is there anything you can do?” After a long silence, his reply was, “Dump your parachutes (main & reserve) out the open door/window/hole in the fuselage, anything to slow the crashing plane down. NEVER GIVE UP!!” A very short time later, this jumper was involved in a plane crash that killed 7. At the crash site, his reserve was found open outside the plane. Speculation was it probably opened on impact, etc. But, knowing this person, I’d like to believe he refused to give up. Wow! That's a hard story to tell. Hope this doesn't open up any wounds. Blue Skies!Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #37 December 19, 2012 QuoteWow! That's a hard story to tell. It's also an awesome story about never giving up. Thanks for sharing. It's clear that it was a hard thing for you to say.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeJD 0 #38 December 19, 2012 Quote After a long silence, his reply was, “Dump your parachutes (main & reserve) out the open door/window/hole in the fuselage, anything to slow the crashing plane down. NEVER GIVE UP!!” Thanks for the story, especially as it obviously involves some difficult memories. On the other hand, during 99% of aircraft emergencies I'd hate to think that sort of option would be going through somebody's mind. I'm sure it'd be very unlikely to make a significant difference even if the crash was unavoidable, and it would likely kill any remaining chance of a recovery to normal flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foolishklown 0 #39 December 19, 2012 QuoteQuoteWow! That's a hard story to tell. It's also an awesome story about never giving up. Thanks for sharing. It's clear that it was a hard thing for you to say. my friend was featured on an episode of that show "i shouldnt be alive".......i had heard him tell the short version of the story regarding a fatal skycrash down in costa rica, but hearing all the grave details in the half hour episode of the show really made my heart go out to him. short story, weather turned nasty real quick after takeoff, they were out over open water, when all of a sudden the plane simply started flipping this way and that way. he was able to get out along with a couple tandems and another sport jumper, his aad popped automatically, and he watched the plane go down into the water under canopy. he was the only survivor of the crash, and he was out at sea floating for a full 48 hours before he was pushed into shore. he said his will to live is the only thing that saved him literally................. RIP to the unfortunate ones involved Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shorehambeach 9 #40 December 19, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdYBIt51rgM This gives you a first hand account of an out of control skydive plane..... pretty amazing to watch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,393 #41 December 19, 2012 Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdYBIt51rgM This gives you a first hand account of an out of control skydive plane..... pretty amazing to watch. Can any Porter pilots chime in here? Why would that spin not be recoverable?"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karen89 0 #42 December 19, 2012 That was terrifying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #43 December 19, 2012 Quote Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdYBIt51rgM This gives you a first hand account of an out of control skydive plane..... pretty amazing to watch. Can any Porter pilots chime in here? Why would that spin not be recoverable? Not a Porter pilot, but I've done spin training (a long, long time ago). That was an inverted spin. While actually easier to recover from, they need opposite technique. If the pilot didn't fight it the right way, he would have made it worse, not better. He may not have realized it was inverted and tried to recover as if it was an upright spin. Or he never had any spin training at all and didn't have any experience at it. Wiki Clicky on spin recovery."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 198 #44 December 19, 2012 Beech 18. 4000 feet over downtown Garretsville, OH. Pretty orderly exit. Pilot ground looped the landing.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrouse 0 #45 December 19, 2012 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdYBIt51rgM This gives you a first hand account of an out of control skydive plane..... pretty amazing to watch. Thats Insane......Lovin every second of it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karen89 0 #46 December 20, 2012 Damn what if that happened with a tandem? This is such a stupid thought I'm having. Okay, so maybe the plane starts freaking out like that before you reach altitude and the student isn't hooked to the instructor? I did two tandems and we didn't get hooked together until 8,000 feet....And we were in a Cessna and I was behind the pilot. I am wondering why they never went over these types of things during tandem training? >.< I feel so dumb for asking this question. I don't plan on doing a tandem ever again since now I have gone alone.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iowa 0 #47 December 20, 2012 I've had three, two were real but not serious. The second was in a Huey with only four of us in the helicopter at 10,000' when the engine went ''kawampa wampa wump'', our friend and fellow skydiver the pilot turned and looked at us like 'what the fuck did you do?' We returned looks that said 'we didn't do nothing Fred' and he said ''Get the fuck out!''. We did, opened right out the door so he could have airspace below, did a three stack with a follower and landed after the Huey. No explanation for the noise. The third was in a Beech with tricycle retract (H-18?) and I was standing up front and looking down at the chain jumping around on the spocket making sparks after takeoff. I told the pilot and he found that it was jammed and would not go back down. We all got out at 5000' and he bellied in the plane on the grass as well as could be expected. Now the first one; I had a little over 100 jumps and was going through the static line jumpmaster course (1986) with my mock student, 6'-8'', 4000 jump skygod, former Golden Knight, yadda yadda, when we're on jump run and the pilot tells me I can open the door (C-182), When the door opens he cuts the power and noses down the plane and yells ''Emergency, get out!''. Well, I completly forgot about my mock student and did a perfect hop and pop and watched the airplane power up and fly away. Didn't pass that part of the test. Hey Chuck, do you remember that one? Keith ''Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.'' - Ernest Hemingway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
