WW II Story ( 2nd try )

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

I received this today:

Look carefully at the B-17 ( in photo Shot up 1.jpg ) and note how shot up it is - one engine dead, tail, horizontal stabilizer and nose shot up.. It was ready to fall out of the sky. (This is a painting done by an artist from the description of both pilots many years later.) Then realize that there is a German BF-109G fighter flying next to it. Now read the story below. I think you'll be surprised.....

Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimbolton, England. His B-17 was called 'Ye Old Pub' and was in a terrible state, having been hit by flak and fighters. The compass was damaged and they were flying deeper over enemy territory instead of heading home to Kimbolton.

After flying the B-17 over an enemy airfield, a German pilot named Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and shoot down the B-17. When he got near the B-17, he could not believe his eyes. In his words, he 'had never seen a plane in such a bad state'. The tail and rear section was severely damaged, and the tail gunner wounded. The top gunner was all over the top of the fuselage. The nose was smashed and there were holes everywhere.

Despite having ammunition, Franz flew to the side of the B-17 and looked at Charlie Brown, the pilot. Brown was scared and struggling to control his damaged and blood-stained plane.

Aware that they had no idea where they were going, Franz waved at Charlie to turn 180 degrees. Franz escorted and guided the stricken plane to, and slightly over, the North Sea towards England. He then saluted Charlie Brown and turned away, back to Europe. When Franz landed he told the CO that the plane had been shot down over the sea, and never told the truth to anybody. Charlie Brown and the remains of his crew told all at their briefing, but were ordered never to talk about it.

More than 40 years later, Charlie Brown wanted to find the Luftwaffe pilot who saved the crew. After years of research, Franz was found.. He had never talked about the incident, not even at post-war reunions.

They met in the USA at a 379th Bomber Group reunion, together with 25 people who are alive now - all because Franz never fired his guns that day.

BF-109 pilot Franz Stigler is photo Shot up 2.jpg.

B-17 pilot Charlie Brown is photo Shot up 3.jpg.

Their reunion is photo Shot up 4.jpg.

JerryBaumchen

[downwardspiral 0]

great story Jerry! thanks for sharing!

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Bertt 0]

Thanks for that. I recently saw a different painting inspired by that same great story.
I heard an interesting story about the type of battle damage those bombers could endure. It seems that some engineers were asked to look at returning bombers to determine where to strengthen them to increase their survivability. The engineers decided it would be best to add armor to the places that didn't have bullet holes. Their reasoning was that the bombers that got back survived the damage they suffered. The ones that didn't get back were probably hit somewhere else.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[Pokerstar 0]

Thanks for sharing this Jerry, what a remarkable story. The 8th Army Air Force sustained horrendous casualties during WWII, and reading stories of their heroism just amazes me every time.

Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber.
--- The Dude ---

[DJL 232]

I just looked this up too. Both passed away just last year.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[warpedskydiver 0]

Why on earth did the first one get deleted?

[Gawain 0]

I've read this story before, but always read it willingly every time. Good stuff.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

Hi warped,

Because I am a 'know-nothing' computer guy.

I have some printed instructions that I keep right next to my computer on how to up-load photos.

I tried & tried to up-load those photos and could not get it done.

I came back later, created a new post ( this one ) & up-loaded the photos before posting the narrative.

The up-loading worked on this try; don't ask me why because I have no idea.

JerryBaumchen

[warpedskydiver 0]

No problem Jerry

It was amazing how professional the Luftwaffe was.

Many times they had chances to be bloodthirsty and yet showed they were true warriors who would not merely kill the vanquished.

Not so much for the Waffen SS, Kriegsmarine or Bundeswehr.

[shredder 0]

That's a terrific story! We still have my father's diary from WWII - he was a tail gunner on a B17 in the 351st Bomb Group out of Polebrook, England. There's one entry in it where the plane gets hit over Germany and goes into a nose dive. It takes both the pilot and co-pilot to pull it out of the dive and when they finally do, all of the instruments are broken and the rest of their group are gone. They flipped a coin to decide which direction to fly to get back to England. They made it back safely later that night. He writes that he couldn't sleep and watched the mechanics work on the plane, called the Dottie J. throughout the rest of the night. Next afternoon they got sent back up in the same airplane on another mission! Gives me goosebumps just reading it, but I am so thankful we have it to read and can pass on the stories to others.

Learn from the past - don't live in it!

[ryoder 1,391]

A book about this will soon be published: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/wings_of_an_angel_m7W8NXNsFsgsqcf5YKPGzO/0

"Higher Call" by Adam Makos

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[BigBUG 0]

Interesting story.

For the lot of Russian planes during the War such damages were quite typical. Especially for assault planes like Ilyushin 2 (Ils-2), they were seen returning without big sections of the wings, without ailerons, even without the whole vertical rudder and major part of the stabilizers. Average count of holes and damages after combat day was 100-300. Of course most of them was from infantry ground fire. For German fighters Il-2 flying solo (especially modification without tail gunner) could be an easy target but when they flew in special formation (i.e. 'defensive circle'), not much of the Germans risks their lives attacking them, because frontal salvo of this assault plane was devastating.

here is a pic of a typical crash landing (gears were damaged during combat) of the Il-2, which made it to the airfield safely. Usually it took 1-3 days to get aircraft in this condition back to battle.
http://waralbum.ru/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/il_2_001.d5c1fkyjtp4cgc8ok4040w48.ejcuplo1l0oo0sk8c40s8osc4.th.jpeg

I was always interestet in air combat history of WWII. But never heard such stories about 'chivalry' here about Russian part of war. German fighters always tried to hunt down damaged aircrafts and usually tried to kill pilots who were forced to bailout.

[DJL 232]

Quote

I was always interestet in air combat history of WWII. But never heard such stories about 'chivalry' here about Russian part of war. German fighters always tried to hunt down damaged aircrafts and usually tried to kill pilots who were forced to bailout.

I'm surprised that such a thing would exist. A capable pilot could inflict a lot of damage and death if allowed to fly again. Pilots who were shot down were put back in action as soon as possible. This is a great and touching story but from everything I've read it looks like Charlie Brown continued dropping bombs on German targets.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[steve1 5]

Great story!

[Amazon 7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8EkmyoG83Q

It is indeed a great story

[dthames 0]

I was visiting Virginia Beach VA in July 1982. In the local paper there was a story about a local man that had been a B-24 maritime patrol pilot in WWII. It was very rare for a plane to catch a sub. But this sub had a first officer that had already been reprimanded for being sloppy on deck watch. The B-24 saw through a gap in the clouds, the sub on the surface at a long distance. They cut their engines to reduce the sound and started a gliding attack. The sub submerged but not in time. It was damaged and sunk in 200 feet of water. About 15 men (as I recall) managed to get out via the torpedo tubes and made it to the surface. The bomber circled and dropped all of their survival gear out to the German crew.

The bomber returned to base calling for a rescue effort. Since no planes actually ever hit any subs, no one believed them. Night fell. After everyone was debriefed the commanders decided maybe they needed to send out a rescue after all. By the time they found them the following day, about half of them had survived. The sub commander and the bomber commander were able to have a reunion, which was part of the newspaper story.

Sad that many very personal stories from WWII will be lost with those that were actually there. Much thanks to all of our combat veterans.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[BigBUG 0]

Quote

I'm surprised that such a thing would exist. A capable pilot could inflict a lot of damage and death if allowed to fly again. Pilots who were shot down were put back in action as soon as possible. This is a great and touching story but from everything I've read it looks like Charlie Brown continued dropping bombs on German targets.

Actually I recall my meeting with one of the aces of 2nd Navy Fighters Company (one of the most famous and productive fighter unit on Eastern front) and his story is showing the difference while looks quite the same than original story in this post...

One day he was on a solo hunt mission (which were quite rare in URSS air forces and only real aces were allowed to fly like this) when he saw Ju-88 bomber with serious damages over the Baltic sea. Apparently it was damaged in dogfight before and lost his group while hiding in the clouds. Rear gunner was dead so it was no problem to shoot it down. Fighters of this 'ace' company wore special decals and paint schemes (red oil radiator panels, tips of the propeller etc) so crew of the bomber was wery well aware what will happen next. But what happen next is that Russian pilot just flew over the bomber, overlooking holes and blood mess in rear gunner turret, and waved hand to bomber's pilot, then just flew away. Crew of the bomber maybe considered this as a act of mercy, but he said to me : 'it was the worst moment for me in this war - I had to let it go because my ammo boxes were empty and ramming into the bomber was not in option so far over the sea'.

I seriuosly doubt about much 'reunions' after the war here in Russia. Every family was affected by it and every family lost someone, most of them lost few family members. 29 millions of people were killed during the war in USSR.

[DJL 232]

It's easy to forget that the USSR was fighting a very cold and bloody war a long time before Normandy.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[sfzombie 3]

it's also easy to forget that without the russians, we would never have even come close to winning. talk about a whole nation of heroes.

http://kitswv.com

[BigBUG 0]

That's correct. On the other side, now in Russia we have same situation with American help - it is greatly misjudged. My grand dad was in fighter squadron - I still have some tools from Aircobra maintenance kit. Aircobras and Hurricanes planes made a great deal until Yak-3s and La-5s were in design stage and Russia does not have modern fighters at all.

American and British planes, trucks, food and supplies saved thousands of lives and gave great support in time of need. So bad the history is corrupted and twisted by politicians from all sides.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

It's easy to forget that the USSR was fighting a very cold and bloody war a long time before Normandy.

Russia lost something like 25 million people during the war. It is difficult to fathom that magnitude of loss.

OTH, what their troops did to German civilians made a deep and lasting impression on our military leadership. Dwight, et. al., viewed them as mongrel hordes because of their behavior. It was one of the reasons we had a cold war, along with their stated intent of destroying capitalist culture. George Kennan's 1940s "long telegram" describes Soviet attitudes, and is worth the read:
George Kennan, "The Sources of Soviet Conduct"

We are all engines of karma

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Interesting story.

For the lot of Russian planes during the War such damages were quite typical. Especially for assault planes like Ilyushin 2 (Ils-2), they were seen returning without big sections of the wings, without ailerons, even without the whole vertical rudder and major part of the stabilizers. Average count of holes and damages after combat day was 100-300. Of course most of them was from infantry ground fire. For German fighters Il-2 flying solo (especially modification without tail gunner) could be an easy target but when they flew in special formation (i.e. 'defensive circle'), not much of the Germans risks their lives attacking them, because frontal salvo of this assault plane was devastating.

here is a pic of a typical crash landing (gears were damaged during combat) of the Il-2, which made it to the airfield safely. Usually it took 1-3 days to get aircraft in this condition back to battle.
http://waralbum.ru/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/il_2_001.d5c1fkyjtp4cgc8ok4040w48.ejcuplo1l0oo0sk8c40s8osc4.th.jpeg

I was always interestet in air combat history of WWII. But never heard such stories about 'chivalry' here about Russian part of war. German fighters always tried to hunt down damaged aircrafts and usually tried to kill pilots who were forced to bailout.

After what the German army did to Russia I can't say I blame them. The USAF took especially severe casualties due to their daylight bombing strategy but it was slim chances of survival for all of them the USAF, RAF (and the Allies who flew with the RAF) and the Russians.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

It was the chivalrous and nobel thing but not the professional thing. I wonder how man germans are dead today because he didn't fire his guns?

Bottom line, its the man in the moments call and no one else's.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

corrupted and twisted by politicians from all sides.

Not to mention Hollywood

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

It was the chivalrous and nobel thing but not the professional thing. I wonder how man germans are dead today because he didn't fire his guns?

Today?

Probably none.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?