Smartphone as altimeter?

[davjohns 1]

Just curious who has tried it and results.

I just figured out that my Note has a barometer and there are apps out there for variometer. I already use it as a GPS on my motorcycle. I'm going to test it for hang gliding. I wonder if the altimeter can keep up for skydiving. I might test it. Have to find a way to secure it that I trust.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Hellis 0]

Would it in any way be better than the other conventional altimeters?
Does it make the skydive safer in any way?
Will it help you in any way?


If the answer is no on any of these questions, why bother?

[davjohns 1]

Fair question.

Larger display means I can read it a bit faster and easier. The biggest reason is convenience.

Currently, I use an audible and digital...sometimes a mechanical...a few times, all three. I carry a cell phone in case I land out. If I combine the altimeter and cell phone, I reduce stuff I have to fuss with.

More, though...

1. I am using my smart phone to replace my MP3 player and workout log in the gym. Toss the MP3 player and log.

2. I am using my smart phone as a radio, MP3 player, and GPS on my motorcycle. Toss a GPS. GPS in Jeep might go next. The radio in the Jeep is nervous.

3. I just disovered my smart phone has a barometer and there are variometer apps available. If they pan out, my smart phone may replace my GPS and variometer on my hang glider. Toss those.

4. I'm going to look for an app that allows me to replace my dive long. Skydive log might follow as well. Not sure how I would get people to sign off, but someone has probably figured it out. Toss a couple of books. If they make a smart phone waterproof that can replace my dive computer, I'll be interested.

Basically, I'm just looking to reduce the stuff in my garage and house. It started with all the helmets. I'm trying to figure out if I can have one helmet for skydiving, hang gliding, and riding.

It might not pan out. But it's worth exploring. You don't get very far by focusing on obstacles and assuming it can't be done.

Just found the logbook with signing ability. I love google. http://www.dropzone.com/news/General/Top_Skydiving_Mobile_Apps_872.html

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[MikeJD 0]

Again this is playing devil's advocate, so forgive me. I'm not really a one-device-fits-all-purposes kind of guy, but I know that's the Luddite in me.

Your current strategy seems to be to replace as many different possessions as possible with your smartphone (although I'm not clear why - none of them is taking up much space! )

Freefall at high altitude makes for a harsh environment - cold, moisture, wind, potential for hard knocks. As I see it, if you take your toy to altitude and lose it or kill it, you're now without your phone, MP3 player, GPS, gym log, variometer, skydive log... I agree it's an interesting experiment, but just because you could replace your altimeter with your smartphone doesn't mean you should.

All that said, I'd be interested to hear how you get on - just make sure you have a backup the first few times you try it.

[sfzombie13 307]

two things i can see with this. first, when you use one device to do many things, it usually does them poorly. second, when you use one device to do everything for you, it makes that device irreplaceable. be careful, a lot of people can't do anything without their phones today.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[riddler 0]

Quote

Just curious who has tried it and results.

I have not tried it, but my initial thought would be that the response time on a phone GPS would not be fast enough for skydiving. By the time it registered and displayed your altitude, you would probably be well below where the initial measurement was taken.

I do recall wingsuiters using dedicated GPS to track their flights, but I don't know what accuracy they achieved. Some GPS units have a fairly high sampling rate, but those are dedicated devices.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

I've tried running a GPS tracker on my phone and run the points through some software I wrote. It's extremely unreliable -- every jump has some "artifacts" where the altitude will randomly plunge or shoot up several hundred or several thousand feet. Several jumps show my landing spot several hundred feet higher and have me descending as I walk back to the trailer. In about half (or maybe a bit more) of my jumps, it just loses some chunk of (or all) the data on the jump -- it'll eat all the points above 5000 feet, all the points below 2000 feet, just not record the jump at all, etc. Very very unreliable.

It appears that the configuration of the flysight is much more reliable -- I've looked at dozens of data files for one of those and haven't seen any anomalies. It samples multiple times per second and seems to have much more accurate GPS hardware. If you could find a phone with super-accurate, fast-sampling GPS, you might be able to pull it off, but I wouldn't trust any given one without testing.

Even if you find a phone with hardware that's reliable, you'd probably need to get some custom software written. I doubt you'd be able to find an altimeter out there that has the smarts of a N3. But you have more hardware to work with than the N3 does too, so you could provide an interface to zero out the altitude. You'd definitely want to be able to lock in the interface so that nothing can switch you off the altitude screen when you're on a jump.

Altimeter software is difficult to get right. Just look at how atrocious the first try with that FlightHud Jeb was pushing here a while back was. You couldn't even zero the starting altitude without a major effort. It took all of about 15 minutes of playing with it to decide that it was a nifty concept but not anything I'd ever want to wear on a skydive. When someone's betting their lives on the accuracy of your hardware and software, you want to do a better job than that.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[kuai43 7]

davjohns

I just figured out that my Note has a barometer and there are apps out there for variometer.

You do NOT have a barometer/variometer in your smartphone. Nor do you have ammunition for your virtual Glock. You have a GPS. You have software to interpret data.

ETA: Apparently, you do have a toy barometer in that thing. If you want to risk using a BB gun in a firefight, have at it. Let us know how it goes...

Read your own sig line.

"But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. "

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[ryoder 1,384]

kuai43

***

I just figured out that my Note has a barometer and there are apps out there for variometer.

You do NOT have a barometer/variometer in your smartphone. Nor do you have ammunition for your virtual Glock. You have a GPS. You have software to interpret data.

Read your own sig line.

"But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. "

Google: http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2011-10/so-um-why-does-new-google-phone-have-barometer-it

Samsung: http://singularityhub.com/2013/04/01/sensors-in-smartphones-galaxy-s4-adds-pressure-temperature-and-humidity-sensors/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[skydiver30960 0]

I just read the list of all the stuff you're doing with that phone. PLEASE tell me you're paying the extra monthly charge for the insurance!


ETA: That being said, if it does survive you have a LOCK for a badass TV commercial for that make and model of phone.


Elvisio "been there, done that, twice" Rodriguez

[Hellis 0]

kuai43

***

I just figured out that my Note has a barometer and there are apps out there for variometer.

You do NOT have a barometer/variometer in your smartphone. Nor do you have ammunition for your virtual Glock. You have a GPS. You have software to interpret data.

ETA: Apparently, you do have a toy barometer in that thing. If you want to risk using a BB gun in a firefight, have at it. Let us know how it goes...

Read your own sig line.

"But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. "


I think a few here has not read his post.
He has a phone with a barometer, some phones have that.
He does not want to use his GPS, he wants an app that uses the barometer.


Back to topic.

I kind of understand why you want to this, but I don't see the real advantage.
I would not want my phone attached on the outside of my jumpsuit, it can easily fall off or someone gives it a kick and the screen (or barometer ) is destroyed.
I can understand why you want to get ridd of a car GPS and use the phones, or how the phone can replace the mp3 player.

But your altimeter is (probably) in your gearbag or jumpsuit, it's not taking up that much space in your garage that it would matter?

[quade 3]

davjohns

Just curious who has tried it and results.

I just figured out that my Note has a barometer and there are apps out there for variometer. I already use it as a GPS on my motorcycle. I'm going to test it for hang gliding. I wonder if the altimeter can keep up for skydiving. I might test it. Have to find a way to secure it that I trust.

The thing about using your phone's barometer (if it has one) as an altimeter is the software provided probably has no good way of zeroing the needle or entering in the local barometric pressure. Similarly, if you use the GPS function, it will give you a reading to the GPS ellipsoid, but not the actual ground; approx MSL, but specifically NOT AGL.

The last thing I'd want to do in free fall is math and having that MSL number in my head is not something I'd want.

But who knows? Maybe you have custom software to do this. If so, I'd give it a shot just for giggles, but as others have pointed out, smartphones are a lot more expensive to replace than normal altimeters.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[champu 1]

MikeJD

Again this is playing devil's advocate, so forgive me. I'm not really a one-device-fits-all-purposes kind of guy, but I know that's the Luddite in me.

Hell, I don't even care for the Neptune because I think something being both a visual and an audible is silly.

[piisfish 135]

would you wrist mount your phone ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

piisfish

would you wrist mount your phone ?

That's my question.

I've seen wrist mount altis smashed against the door frame of the plane, torn off and lost and crunched on a bad landing.

I carry my phone when I jump, but it's in an inside pocket. For it to get damaged, I would probably get hurt.

The problem with "1 device that does everything" is that if you break it, then you can't do anything.

But I tend to be a Luddite about technology too. YMMV

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rcs 1]

How do you use it for a GPS on your motorcycle? How do you mount it?

[Remster 24]

rcs

How do you use it for a GPS on your motorcycle? How do you mount it?

There are plenty of handlebar mounts for phones out there...

Remster

[david3 0]

davjohns

Just curious who has tried it and results.

I just figured out that my Note has a barometer and there are apps out there for variometer. I already use it as a GPS on my motorcycle. I'm going to test it for hang gliding. I wonder if the altimeter can keep up for skydiving. I might test it. Have to find a way to secure it that I trust.

Why would you? What are you trying to accomplish?

[mjosparky 3]

As someone mentioned, what you are doing serves no useful purpose. It will be a huge distraction while you are guessing if it working or not.

The best altimeter ever made…it is easy to see, it updates faster than you can think, requires no batteries and is less expensive than most.

Sparky

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/AltimasterII.jpg

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[davjohns 1]

Weekend is over...here we go.

The Note has a barometric sensor. That's why my initial post says it has a barometric sensor. The apps I have found use the GPS and barometer for accuracy. Just like any skydive altimeter, you turn it on at the DZ and it zeros for AGL measurements.

The log app I found allows someone to sign.

I haven't decided on mounting, but inside my forearm seems likely. It is better protected there and still handy. Someone claimed mounting on my arm might be an issue. Not sure why they sell all those wrist mounted alits, but ok.

I'm not sure how some of you land, but my altimeter takes much less of a beating than my phone.

My altimeter mounts on my wrist, so that's no change. The biggest change I see is the increased wind resistance of a larger screen. That's mitigate a little by the size of my forearms. I can't use the sport mount I got for my Note. It's supposed to go around my upper arm, but wouldn't fit. It fits my forearm. I'll test some to see if it is strong enough.

I agree that my altimeters don't take up much space (use at least two and sometimes three (first post)). But a tour of my garage might help someone to understand:

Helmets: motorcycle x4, rock climbing, skydiving x2, hang gliding x2 - there's a whole damn shelf...

Electronics: GPS x2, tablet, phablet, cell, laptop, variometer x2, alit x3, dive computer, digital camera x2, intercom system

Motorcycles: 4 + alternate seats, fairings, spare parts, manuals, etc.

I'm exploring ways to consolidate. I'm selling off excess dive equipment and reducing my rig to minimalist. I'm selling off excess helmets and exploring one helmet for multiple sports. I'm looking to sell off excess electronics and consolidate where I can.

I have no idea if the alti app will react fast enough for safe use. I'm willing to test it. I will not use it exclusively under any circumstances. Worst case would be the Note and the audible in my helmet. I've had my digital alti fail during a jump.

If I am able to consolidate, there is a chance of losing, damaging the phone. But that's true of everything. Right now, I have maintenance issues because there is too much stuff to care for. Different batteries, different connections, different parameters of use. With the Note, I can back up files on the internet and have a quick replacement time. When my digital alti failed, I had to send it overseas and wait for the replacement. There are pros and cons. I'm trying to figure out where the scales land.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

rcs

How do you use it for a GPS on your motorcycle? How do you mount it?

I currently use the 7" tablet for that, but can use the Note as well. I was originally told on a motorcycle forum that I was crazy for mounting a GPS on my bike. Now, it is quite common. Go figure. There are plenty of commercial mounts available now. Handlebars, triple, and tank bag are primary suspects. Mind is mounted on the triple. The larger screen means my eyes are off the road a shorter period if I look at it. But I don't often look. I have it bluetooth connected to my helmet and I do what the nice lady tells me. I bought a bike my first time in England and rode it back to Belgium just based on what the nice lady told me to do...and listened to musice...and took pictures...and skyped / checked email at rest stops.

I actually had someone post online that I was too stupid to own a motorcycle because of this. I'm really surprised there are so many nay-sayers here...amongst a group of people that jump out of airplanes...

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[platypii 20]

BASEline Flight Computer for Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.platypii.baseline

BASEline - Wingsuit Flight Computer

[davjohns 1]

Thanks!

Any idea why a couple of people didn't like it? They didn't document their qualms.

Does it link images to the log so I can have someone sign?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[champu 1]

I would do a bunch of jumps with it in an inside pocket using it just as a logger before mounting it externally to see what the data looks like. Also, you could consider asking around your dropzone if someone has an altimeter calibration chamber (or you could make one, basically just a vacuum chamber with a see through side.) Toss it in there with a "real" altimeter and throw it through some loops and see if it stays accurate.

But always be wary of being too clever for your own good with 50 jumps. And I mean that in the least condescending way possible. I remember having 50 jumps and solving problems that didn't exist, like making my own plexiglass mudflap altimeter mount.

And regarding helmets, it's generally good to have specific-purpose helmets. I have a full face skydiving helmet, an open face, a camera helmet, a helmet for BASE, one for bicycling, and another one for snowboarding. They all have design features specific to their intended use (unlike, say, the four motorcycle helmets you have to match the paint scheme on each of your bikes )