JanuszPS 0
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ozzy13 0
QuoteAnd yeah; how was that 10-way?
We did very well, finishing with the Bronze Medal against two formidable Gold & Silver Medal teams - just 4.9 seconds behind the Silver team. This was a 10 Way speed event; all that crap about flying your slot before taking grips is for another day. HUGE fun !
I tried to post a picture AND a vid of my cutting away the main, but have had no luck with either.
Post video on you tube and post the link here.
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
Ron 7
My opinion: You can't land a PC in tow. Too many people have tried.
STOP the skydive and then fight what you have.
STOP the skydive and then fight what you have.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
sundevil777 93
QuoteBecause it's not. I just gave my sequence of actions, nothing more.
the possibility of main going out is quite high IMO and that's very unwanted for me doing WS, just right after opening with arms struggled by the wings.
j.
Edit
in fact there is at least two more options, not only those two given in the pull:
- pull reserve and cut away
- try to open it
- none from above (?)
What do you mean by "because it's not"?
Were you not saying what you would do and why?
Of course having both out is unwanted, whether doing WS or not. It is also unwanted to have the main risers or RSL shackle snag the reserve as they are dragged up along it.
Anyway, I understand that there are arguments to support both sides.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
Quotethere is nothing more educational than a nice piece of footage with the comments
Well, here I go then. I've gone over this recently revived thread, and though the wast majority of possible PCIT scenarios (either straight to silver or cutaway first) have already been voiced, I noticed that one rather exotic case has not yet been mentioned. That is, the case where your reserve PC deploys your main. Below goes my interpretation of the whole mess and a vid to support it.
The situation was as follows (this isnt 100% just my ideas):
1. main PC (it was cocked btw)entangles with bridle and therefore flies upside-down(thus no drag).
2. Attempted to a) catch bridle and pull pin via bridle by hand - attempt failed. b)hit container with elbow(been told it may help with pc in tow situations) - no use
3.since no main/or main d-bag out decided to go straight for reserve.
4.Reserve pc tangles with main pc
5. Since reserve pc entanglement with main pc ended up being by the bridle (I guess) - the drag from partially inflated reserve pc was transferred via entanglement to the main bridle and was sufficient to pull the main pin.
6. Main d-bag exits the container, reaches line stretch, reserve freebag(due to entanglement I suppose) follows main and lodges in twisted main lines.
7. Reserve freebag comes down as I kick it out from twists.
8. Reserve freebag is placed under armpit and held there until landing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49M8hD472_I
Shit
congratulations on surviving the whole ordeal.
What method do you use to pack the PC?
Any idea why the bridle tangled up with the PC?
Unfortunately, I am almost sure that your ability to have footage of this jump will raise some eyebrows, but I hope it does not distract from the fact that you were thinking clearly, and fast, under pressure. 
I used to fold the excess bridal, put it onto the PC and wrap the PC around it (a rigger taught me that, so if it sounds as poor packing, its just cause I cant properly describe it now). Now I switched to the Germain method. I was told it was either due to poor packing, poor throw or poor luck (or all three combined).
As for the camera thing, I already went thru the whole "you shouldn't be wearing a cam" thing. Generally, I'd agree, but its too educational in this case :]
As for the camera thing, I already went thru the whole "you shouldn't be wearing a cam" thing. Generally, I'd agree, but its too educational in this case :]
ozzy13 0
QuoteMy opinion: You can't land a PC in tow. Too many people have tried.
I'm sorry but you are deffentlly wrong. To generalize a statement like this is foolish. I'm sorry.
I have seen a few pilotchutes in toe land. It's funny looking because you see a fully inflated pilotchute fling behind the jumper as they come in.
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
ozzy13 0
First let me say good job not giving up.
Their are reasons why we have BSR's I see you broke a few. Don't chance fate to many times my friend. Do you guys at that dz do gear checks before leaving the plane? The guy in front of you in yellow looked like his flap was half way coming out.
Just one question. Why did you wait to remove your toggle for so long?It also didn't look like you flared at all.
Their are reasons why we have BSR's I see you broke a few. Don't chance fate to many times my friend. Do you guys at that dz do gear checks before leaving the plane? The guy in front of you in yellow looked like his flap was half way coming out.
Just one question. Why did you wait to remove your toggle for so long?It also didn't look like you flared at all.
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
We do gear checks, but they're not mandatory, at the time I wasn't familiar with his container, so I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be that way (also, I kind of missed it).
As for the toggle thing, - I had my reserve freebag in my left hand/armpit and really didn't want to drop it accidentally, so I stirred with rear risers and the right toggle. Oh, and I did flare, yet it was a 100% down wind, landing, so I still had to roll a bit (also, I have no experience on landing in plowed fields... 
).
Edited: grammar
QuoteThis was a 10 Way speed event; all that crap about flying your slot before taking grips is for another day. HUGE fun !
If you ain't hittin' it hard, you ain't doin' it right.
Look, fella...you're docking too softly. We'll have to replace you on the team.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Ron 7
QuoteI'm sorry but you are deffentlly wrong. To generalize a statement like this is foolish. I'm sorry.
You should read the second part again.
QuoteI have seen a few pilotchutes in toe land. It's funny looking because you see a fully inflated pilotchute fling behind the jumper as they come in.
You have seen people land a reserve *with* a pilot chute in tow. If you saw a person land a pilot chute tow... Then you saw a fatality.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
DSE 3
QuoteQuoteI tried to post a picture AND a vid of my cutting away the main, but have had no luck with either.
that's a pity, there is nothing more educational than a nice piece of footage with the comments.
j.
Not the video you're looking for, but here is a clip from yesterday's fun.
QuoteYou have seen people land a reserve *with* a pilot chute in tow. If you saw a person land a pilot chute tow... Then you saw a fatality.
You are so right. It might be different than landing a line-over....
ozzy13 0
QuoteMy opinion: You can't land a PC in tow. Too many people have tried.
ok Again not true. You can land a pilot chute in tow. I have seen it and all are walking and talking. No where does your post say reserve pilot chute.
AgreedQuoteSTOP the skydive and then fight what you have.
Have a nice day
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
Ron 7
QuoteI have seen it and all are walking and talking. No where does your post say reserve pilot chute.
No, you have seen (and so have I):
1. People land UNDER A RESERVE trailing a PC in tow malfunction.
2. People land UNDER A MAIN trailing a reserve PC in tow.
But a guy LANDING A PC IN TOW is going to hit the ground at 120 MPH... He is not going to survive.
Not that hard of a concept.... You are doing 120MPH at the ground with only a PC out. You are going to die unless you handle it.
For that reason, my opinion is to STOP the skydive first, then deal with the PC in tow issue.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
JanuszPS 0
Hi,
I explained tht question in the initial post. I just gave my sequence of actions which I think are best for ME.
What I mean is that in the case the reserve deploys w/o cut away, the main might go out due to the lesser pressure on the main pin - highly possible.
If the reserve for some reason does not deploy and you didn't cut away you still have something to work with.
If you cut away first and than have problems with the reserve there is nothing left to work on.
If I deploy reserve and just the main goes out right after the reserve it's not a good thing. But if my arms are not free from the wings is even worst.
So the degree of pressure on the main loop is one big unknown. But to prevent the very bad situation I would prefer to see/feel deploying reserve before cutting away. So in this case the degree of the pin engagement has nothing to my decision to cut away, but the fact that the reserve is opening and the risk of the two out nearly at the same time is high.
I would rather cut away the main straight after feeling/seeing the reserve even in the snivel just for sake of not having two out at the same time (deployment time) or right after with hands struggled by the wings. I was trained to use one hand for one handle during my AFF. For the WS I have been thought to collapse the wings, arch, deploy, keep the position while moving my arms to my chest (close to the handles not for no reason) and wait for deployment.
It is my opinion only (now I could put the warning sentence) and I do what I think is the best for me w/o putting others on a risk.
If I dont fly the WS I might wait or secure the main flap from opening as I have two hands to work with but still I wouldn't have any control during deloyment.
To be hones the PCIT situation was one of my worries while deciding to do WS jumps.
j.
Edit
QuoteOf course having both out is unwanted, whether doing WS or not. It is also unwanted to have the main risers or RSL shackle snag the reserve as they are dragged up along it.
Anyway, I understand that there are arguments to support both sides.
I have at least one less worry as I don't use RSL and any (other) MARD. I prefer simplicity of mine system and less variables in a difficult situation although my system was made by Performance Variable ;-) - that might explain the PCIT,
. So I don't consider RSL disconnection in my sequence of actions. j.
Back to Poland... back home.
ozzy13 0
QuoteQuoteI have seen it and all are walking and talking. No where does your post say reserve pilot chute.
No, you have seen (and so have I):
1. People land UNDER A RESERVE trailing a PC in tow malfunction.
2. People land UNDER A MAIN trailing a reserve PC in tow.
But a guy LANDING A PC IN TOW is going to hit the ground at 120 MPH... He is not going to survive.
Not that hard of a concept.... You are doing 120MPH at the ground with only a PC out. You are going to die unless you handle it.
For that reason, my opinion is to STOP the skydive first, then deal with the PC in tow issue.[/reply
Geez Im sorry if I didnt state the obvious. Of course they had a parachute over their head. Hens landing not pounding in. My badNever give the gates up and always trust your rears!
JanuszPS 0
Thanks,
I'm not sure but it looks that he/she was struggled to find the PC at the first. Than the person was flying the WS after pulling PC. was that a student? what was the direct reason for PCIT?
j.
I'm not sure but it looks that he/she was struggled to find the PC at the first. Than the person was flying the WS after pulling PC. was that a student? what was the direct reason for PCIT?
j.
Back to Poland... back home.
PiLFy 0
I was trying to remember where I saw this vid a few months ago. Thanks for re-posting it. I've decided. I'm not going to cut away first if this ever happens to me. Could we please change the subject now? All the dire scenarios & videos are starting to make me nervous...
sundevil777 93
I am not understanding your logic.
Near simultaneous deployments are not a good thing, that is correct, but it very often results in both deploying. I think that would be OK, even with your arms temporarily tied up by your WS, even if they both open in a down plane.
That is not the worst thing that can happen.
If you cutaway first, the main can no longer open and might hopelessly entangle on the reserve. I and many others think that is likely enough that not cutting away first is the best choice.
Wearing a WS complicates the situation slightly, however I'd rather have to deal with getting my hands free to deal with a 2 out than have to deal with getting my hands free to deal with a chopped main that has fouled my reserve.
Both scenarios can go completely, unrecoverably bad, but if cutting away made more sense as you say with a WS, then it would be the right choice without a WS.
QuoteIf I deploy reserve and just the main goes out right after the reserve it's not a good thing. But if my arms are not free from the wings is even worst.
Near simultaneous deployments are not a good thing, that is correct, but it very often results in both deploying. I think that would be OK, even with your arms temporarily tied up by your WS, even if they both open in a down plane.
QuoteBut if my arms are not free from the wings is even worst.
That is not the worst thing that can happen.
If you cutaway first, the main can no longer open and might hopelessly entangle on the reserve. I and many others think that is likely enough that not cutting away first is the best choice.
Wearing a WS complicates the situation slightly, however I'd rather have to deal with getting my hands free to deal with a 2 out than have to deal with getting my hands free to deal with a chopped main that has fouled my reserve.
Both scenarios can go completely, unrecoverably bad, but if cutting away made more sense as you say with a WS, then it would be the right choice without a WS.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
DSE 3
This is a wingsuit student. Student has no problem finding the handle, it's that the BOC is far too tight, and it's a PUD-type handle with a locking tab (bad idea, IMO).
Add to it the container being overstuffed (160 in a 120/135 container, a too-short kill line, wingsuit burble...you have 12 seconds of "is it gonna...?"
Add to it the container being overstuffed (160 in a 120/135 container, a too-short kill line, wingsuit burble...you have 12 seconds of "is it gonna...?"
that's a pity, there is nothing more educational than a nice piece of footage with the comments.
j.
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