baa75 0 #1 May 26, 2004 What would you do?? I am buying a canopy from someone. I was told that it has less than 100 jumps and is in "new" condition. After a month of emails & phone calls back & forth the canopy finally shows up at my DZ for my rigger to look it over. He didn’t even give me the right tracking # so I had no idea what was up until the canopy showed up! (I was ready to say forget it but I wanted the canopy) The canopy looks ok but there’s a hole in the top skin with a poorly done patch on it. Whoever put it there used some kind of tape on the top side and then the right material on the inside but sewed the tape to the patch! And apparently a poor sewing job at that. (I haven’t seen it yet, this is what I’m told by my rigger) Now I have to pay to have the tape & patch removed and fixed right. Its probably jumpable as it is but I’m told the tape is meant to be a temporary fix, not sewn on. Through a month of emails & phone calls this person never even mentioned that there was a hole, patch, etc. So needless to say, I’m a bit pissed. I wanted this canopy to jump weeks ago and now I have to wait even longer for repairs to be done if I keep it! (About $40) Not to mention that I have to buy Slinks for it since it came with NOTHING to hook it up! Grr!! Has anything like this happened to you? What would you do or did you do?? I’m so frustrated with this whole thing! I could never sell someone a canopy and not tell them there’s a hole and a crappy patch on it! I agreed to $950 but that was before I knew I had to buy Slinks and get repairs done! BettyAnn Getting married? Check out my website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DShiznit 0 #2 May 26, 2004 Uh.... I think I'd be DEMANDING a refund if I were you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #3 May 26, 2004 While a hole won't affect the airworthniess of the canopy, it was bad form not to mention the hole and patch. Also, it should have come with links (how were the suspension lines secured?) I'd tell the guy you'll deduct the price of repairing the patch and the links (and the install cost, if any) or it's no deal. Or you could just say it's not in "new" condition and walk away. Good thing you ran the deal through a rigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #4 May 26, 2004 Tell the seller the story and find out the cost of the patch. Dont have the patch done unless your going to buy that canopy The links or slinks are, IMHO, not a main canopies "responsibility" When you buy a new canopy it does not always come on links. If he had said it would then it is a valid reduction in cost. Let the seller know your not happy with the response time and the canopy was not as described and tell him the price your willing to pay. If he goes for it move on and be happy. If not you dont want to have done a patchthat your going to have to likely eat the cost for. He will probably take a reduction in cost given the story but if not there is no reason to have the work done for him. Depending on the existing temp patch the location of the hole and its size, you should be able to jump it as is to see if you even want tthe canopy.. Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #5 May 26, 2004 QuoteWhen you buy a new canopy it does not always come on links. New canopies always come with links. They do not usually come with risers, toggles, dbags or pilot chutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
554 0 #6 May 26, 2004 [New canopies always come with links. No they don't. I just hooked up a Sabre2 straight from PD. It was hooked on the PD card with plastic zip ties. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #7 May 26, 2004 QuoteNew canopies always come with links. I disagree....my canopy that I bought from PISA 3 years ago was hooked up to the card with Zip ties...then when I bought that safire from you at square1 2years ago it did not have links of any kind. I ended up buying slinks from you. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 May 26, 2004 QuoteNo they don't. I just hooked up a Sabre2 straight from PD. It was hooked on the PD card with plastic zip ties. Yes they do. In the bag/box should have been the customers choice of link type. (#3.5,#5, or Slinks in most cases) If they were not in there contact the dealer. If the dealer doesn't provide them or get PD to, they are not doing their job.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #9 May 26, 2004 If you buy a main and it doesn't come with links, either Rapide (and bumpers) or Slinks (either in a seperate bag or already installed), you got screwed. Same thing if you buy a container and it doesn't show up w/ a main PC, reserve PC, main D-bag, reserve D-bag, main risers and toggles, reserve toggles, cutaway handle, and reserve handle. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryand96 0 #10 May 26, 2004 Quote New canopies always come with links. No they don't. I just hooked up a Sabre2 straight from PD. It was hooked on the PD card with plastic zip ties. I just received my new Sabre 2 yesterday. It was attached to the PD card and in the bag was a small bag containing slinks and SRC's. They also threw in a small bag of rubber bands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #11 May 26, 2004 I've had customers (2) have manufacturer's send new canopies to me for set-up on their containers, only to find the lines attached to a card with zip-ties. Found out later, they didn't check the appropriate box for SLINKS or Rapide Links! Those are the only times I ever recieved a new parachute without links. With used gear, some folks don't seem to understand that when they sell their main (only), to leave the parachute on the links but, KEEP the risers, pilot-chute and 'D'-bag. Those items stay with the container. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #12 May 26, 2004 Quotewhen I bought that safire from you at square1 2years ago it did not have links of any kind. I ended up buying slinks from you. It was supposed to have links... Every new canopy I've seen arrive from PD, Aerodyne, Precision, Atair, or Icarus has come with some form of links. Whether they are installed or not is a different subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baa75 0 #13 May 26, 2004 Thanks everyone. The canopy is a Lotus. (Big Air) The canopy came just tied with tacking thread. So I'm assuming the seller kept the links for himself. Regardless, that means I have to buy new ones. As for the hole/patch. Its not in a high tension area so it should be ok. I'm really annoyed that he didn't say anything about it. (Bad form indeed!) He knew full well he was shipping it to my rigger and this wouldn't get past him. And this whole time he kept telling me how HE was afraid of getting ripped off. BettyAnn Getting married? Check out my website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #14 May 26, 2004 Did they send the links later? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baa75 0 #15 May 26, 2004 QuoteWith used gear, some folks don't seem to understand that when they sell their main (only), to leave the parachute on the links but, KEEP the risers, pilot-chute and 'D'-bag. Those items stay with the container. Thank you! That's what I was wanting to know. I didn't want to ask him for them if I wasn't supposed to get them. Funny though, when I sold my first canopy the buyer actually asked me if it came with its slider. Of course if someone hadn't told me I would've sent my risers along with it! BettyAnn Getting married? Check out my website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitof1976 0 #16 May 26, 2004 I had a sort of similar thing happened to me a few weeks back when I bought a used diablo online. According to the ad, the canopy was only 2 years old and had about 150 jumps on it... So I contact the seller and we agree on 700 bucks. I have previously bought all my gear online and I always got bitching deals like a wings at 50% off and a near new Triathlon for 400 bucks on Ebay. So anyways... I am of the trusting kind, and since I never had bad experiences buying online, I just sent the money and trusted that the canopy was in good shape... When the canopy arrived and I hooked it up to the risers, I noticed that the brakes had been changed... I am immediately suspecting that something must not be right with the trim because it seemed unlikely that the brakes would need to be changed on a canopy with only 150 jumps on it. So I take the thing out for a jump and sure enough, I jumped the thing and immediately after opening the canopy start turning to the left!! The canopy turned out to have a built in turn to the left... So there I am, with a canopy that I already paid for and the freaking thing flies like crap! So I know I am sort of screwed because I already paid for the canopy... At any rate I contact the seller via email to let him know my discontentment and explained in a polite manner that I was not really happy with the canopy and that I wanted a refund. Luckily for me, the seller is a really upstanding guy and eventhough he no longer had to money to refund it to me he did agree to make things right . He took upon himself to contact Aerodyne and organized for me to shipped it back to the factory to have it evaluated and fixed... So I finally got my canopy back from Aerodyne...( I just have to mention really quick that they did a kick ass job at fixing the problem and their customer service is top notch!) So now I have a canopy that flies perfectly and the seller agreed to reimbursing me for the cost of the repair. So in your case, I would ask the seller if you can work something out to fix the problem. Obviously, if you have already paid for the canopy your options are a bit more limited... If you haven't paid for the canopy just return it and your problem is solved. If you already paid for it then I suggest you politely ask the seller to work something out. Remember you catch more flies with honey than vinegar Chances are the guy will work with you on fixing the problem. I still think that most people a fundamentaly good... Good luck! "We see the world just the way we are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baa75 0 #17 May 27, 2004 Thanks. Similar situation except thankfully we have enough riggers at my DZ that I knew to have it checked out first. I sent him half of the amount we agreed on and the rest to be sent after it checks out. If he can't agree to knock down the price for the repairs then we have a problem. He even had the guts to tell me that I need to pay the $14 shipping! After taking so long to get it to me I would have at least offered to split it or something but I guess that's just me. My rigger is going to contact him about the repair work so we'll see how it goes. Probably not a good idea for me to talk to him right now, I'm still not in the best of moods about it. I guess I should have known I was in for it when I asked him if it had the new line-set that Big Air started using recently and he replied that it has less than 100 jumps so it doesn't need new lines. BettyAnn Getting married? Check out my website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #18 May 27, 2004 It's beginning to sound like you're buying from an asshat. Do you want that exact canopy, the one he has, badly enough that you want to support someone like the seller? I'd work on getting out of the deal and go to someone who doesn't suck. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #19 May 27, 2004 I have acted as the middle man/rigger for dozens of similar transactions. Heck, I even have a used Sidewinder in my loft now that is "between owners." First of all, take a deep breath. Secondly ask your rigger to talk directly with the seller. He has 1/10 the amount of emotion than you. Thirdly, ask the seller if he is willing to accept his asking price, minus the cost of a - neatly sewn - patch and 4 links. Sending a canopy without links is silly, seeing as how PIA wrote that standard 20-some-odd-years ago. The last few new canopies I have received from PD, Aerodyne and Flight Concepts had lines zip tied to cards, with soft links in a smaller bag stuffed in with the main canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitof1976 0 #20 May 27, 2004 Quote I sent him half of the amount we agreed on and the rest to be sent after it checks out. The way I see it right now is that you got yourself a canopy with a 50% discount... So either he agrees to revised the price or you'll revise it for him when you pay the rest!! "We see the world just the way we are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baa75 0 #21 May 28, 2004 Ok... I finally spoke to him. He will pay for the repair of the hole in the canopy. (After a bit of balking and telling me its really minor) But he insists that at his DZ no one EVER sends the links with a canopy. So he said he'll pay for the shipping ($14) and I can buy new slinks ($25). Why is it I still feel like he's being a jerk and I'm paying for things I shouldn't have to pay for?? BettyAnn Getting married? Check out my website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #22 May 29, 2004 But he insists that at his DZ no one EVER sends the links with a canopy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like his DZ is out of synch with the rest of the parachute industry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepnjump 0 #23 June 4, 2004 Did you happen to purchase this canopy form the classifieds here on dropzone.com? Just wondering if this is the same lotus I was trying to get, the time frame sounds right. Tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baa75 0 #24 June 4, 2004 Actually yes. Trying to get? What happened? He said he was having problems with other deals. ??? (I think I know WHO the problem is though!) PM me if you want to chat. I don't want to put personal details about who the guy is on here. (Even if I am still pissed that he thinks I should pay for the dang links!) BettyAnn Getting married? Check out my website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepnjump 0 #25 June 5, 2004 no big deal, the day he posted it, I sent him an email asking about the canopy, he replied a day later, then the day after that I sent him one back saying I was interested, he replied that it had been sold. There was never any mention of a patch to me either, just that it was "like new". I personaly would have been very upset if someone told me that a canopy was like new, and it had a patch on it that they never mentioned. Just for your own info, I emailed Brian Germain about the new line set for the lotus, the line set gives you the upgrade, and the cost of the line set is $250. On the bright side, the Lotus is a great canopy, and you will love it. If you have any questions about the canopy, I'm sure Brian would be more than happy to answer them. He's a great guy, and knows more about parachutes and flying them than any of us could ever hope to learn (if you get the chance, I highly reccomend his seminar). Tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
