RyanofOZ 0 #1 January 16, 2004 Hello all, I am trying to decide on my first rig and have found 2 that I am interested in. The part in question is the main on each rig. The rest is all similar. One has a Spectre 210 the other a Sabre 230. My instructor said I can handle a 210 fine but if the Sabre is a better canopy, I would opt for that. Any imput from you all? Thanks! RyanOz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #2 January 16, 2004 Spectre will likely give you a more comfy opening than the Sabre from what I have heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #3 January 16, 2004 Is the Sabre an original Sabre or a Sabre2? The biggest difference you will notice between these two canopies is that the 9-cell Sabre will have a flatter glide than the 7-cell Spectre. It's not an easy choice as both the Spectre and Sabre (especially the Sabre2) are good canopies to learn on. You may also want to consider pack volume (leaning towards the smaller Spectre canopy if the container is sized for a 210, or the Sabre if the container is sized for a 230). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #4 January 16, 2004 Both are okay first chutes. The Spectre has 7 cells, the Sabre nine. Which one you want is a personal preference (ie, demo both if you can)... The spectre usually has really slow openings (too slow for some), the sabre has been known to open more briskly and can open quite hard every now and then but that seems to depend a lot on which canopy, and packing. Some sabres open slow too... The Spectre might be easier to sell later on since it is a current model, the Sabre is not (there's a Sabre 2 now). I don't think either canopy is 'better' they're just different. If you're instructor says you'll be fine on both, it is just a matter of personal preference... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #5 January 16, 2004 First off, how much do you weigh and what have you been jumping up until now? I assume from your profile that this will be your first rig in which case you really ought to try to keep your wing loading at or below 1:1. Either canopy would be fine for a first main canopy at this wingloading. Secondly, I’m assuming we’re talking about an original Sabre rather than a Sabre 2. I jumped (original) Sabres of various sizes for the past few years, and although they fly and land nicely enough the openings are horrible! By that I mean they tend to generally be on the quick side with occasional slammers. As has been said, the Sabre is a 9 cell and the Spectre a 7 cell. There is a very slight loss of glide on the Spectre, but it really isn’t much and certainly nothing to worry about. I recently replaced my Sabre 135 with a Spectre 135 and the openings on the Spectre are beautiful – with a nice long snivel and they generally remain on heading. The Spectre is just as easy to land as the Sabre (IMHO) and is much, much nicer in turbulence. The Spectre feels very “solid” to me compared with the Sabre. I like this, but I fully accept that not everybody will. Going from a Sabre to a Spectre of the same size, I have found the riser pressure lighter on the Spectre but the toggle pressure possibly slightly heavier. Having said that, once the turn starts is feels much smoother than the turns on a Sabre. I feel that my Spectre 135 “feels” slightly bigger than my Sabre 135 but not as big as the Sabre 150 I had before that did. Basically, if your wingloading on the Spectre is sensible and your instructors feel that you can handle it (they know you and your abilities after all!), then that would be my first choice. But don’t take my word for it, demo both and decide from there! Good luck! Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #6 January 16, 2004 The very large Sabres IMHO have less than desireable openings. Also the double brake lines are a little tricky. I vote Spectre 210, but would like to know your exit weight..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanofOZ 0 #7 January 16, 2004 I weigh about 220-225 so my exit will be near 240 with all the "gear" as far as I can figure. So far from what I have read here and on the web, the spectre seems like a better choice. I am not fond of rough openings after having a few going through aff. So what do you think? RyanOz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #8 January 16, 2004 The term "better" is kind of dependent on what criteria are being applied. I've got over 500 spectre jumps and demoed a sabre 2. I'm sticking with my spectre. If at all possible you should jump them and define "better" for yourself. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #9 January 16, 2004 Demo them both... I've got a Sabre that opens beautifully every time and I've been bitten by a Spectre... It depends upon the canopy IMO. Try before you buy.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gremlin 0 #10 January 16, 2004 QuoteI've got a Sabre that opens beautifully every time and I've been bitten by a Spectre... How many jumps did you do on the spectre? It is far more difficult (though not impossible) to get a Spectre to slam open - even if you are an Empuria packer! Have a go at an Aerodyne Pilot. Excellent openings - fun flying and good landings - and I'm not even on a commission! I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vapor 0 #11 January 17, 2004 I can't claim to have enough jumps to make this statistically relevant, but damn, yo, if I never have to suffer a Sabre opening again it'll be too soon. I didn't want kids anyway. Probably a little bad body position on pull involved, but after 4 AFF jumps I fled to an Icarus 230 and think I'll end up with a Spectre for my first main. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #12 January 17, 2004 if your instructor did tell you the 210 was fine, then go for the spectre. sabres are not bad canopies, they have nice flight characteristics, but get the spectre just for the openings. also, in my experience, the spectre is just as fun to fly. plus, it will have more resale value than a sabre of the same wear. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanofOZ 0 #13 January 17, 2004 Thanks for all the info and opinions guys and gals!Oz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #14 January 17, 2004 I agree with BCH7773 - If you are looking between a Sabre Mark 1 and a Spectre - Go with the Spectre. They are a very forgiving and zippy canopy to learn on, and You will hear a lot of horror stories about the openings of the Origional Sabre. I had to make the same decision between a Sabre2 and a Spectre - TOUGH CALL!!!!=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
helldog 0 #15 January 17, 2004 The spectre will give you a more consistent softer opening. My concern is that with 15 jumps and a exit weight at 240lbs you be loading the spectre at 1.15:1. You might discuss that with your instructor and see if he thinks your ready to land at that wing loading. Also PD will let you demo the canopies for 2 weekends for $30. I'd recommend demoing before buying. Good luck with your decision Blue ones Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #16 January 17, 2004 Still--Sabre 1 or 2? I like 7 cells so I would say Spectre anyway, but that is a personal preferance. If your instructor says your OK for 210, go for it. Some things to remember; Your talking about a comparatively large rig--one that will wiegh closer to 30lbs than 20lbs. PD measures their canopies diferently than most other manufacturers. Opinions from people using canopies from other manufacturers will be based on experience with a canopy that is sized diferently. Lu7k, D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #17 January 18, 2004 I just bought a rig with a Spectre 190 (which I'm loading at 1.29) after renting demo Spectre 230's and 210's and Sabre2 210's. Between a Spectre and the original Sabre, which I've never jumped, I'd say Spectre because the Sabre is already an obsolescent canopy with a rep for hard openings. If you have a chance to get a Sabre2, I guess it's up to you. They open a quicker than a Spectre, and quite comfortably. They're fun to fly, but personally I just can't seem to find the right flare with a 9 cell. The steeper glide of a Spectre is only apparent on final, there is no problem at all with a Spectre getting you back from a long spot. Spectres can be quite snappy and a lot of fun and they have one hell of a nice flare. They do take a long time to open, I typically burn up a good 500-600 ft on my openings. So throw it our just under 3 grand and sit in just above 2 grand, you'll be fine. The opening is so NICE that I like to tell people it's "like falling into bed with a blonde", which if you think about it is pretty darn nice regardless of gender or preference.... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redramdriver 0 #18 January 18, 2004 I too am pondering a Spectre or Sabre2. I went to the PD web site and downloaded the flight charicteristics of both. Most of the information here is exactly what is on the info sheet from PD. Its your call..jump both. I have decided on the Spectre myself...I like the softer openings and my exit weight is about 265lbs...so the 230 is just right says goldie locks...blue onesSo, you bring your beer? Its 5 o'clock somewhere POPS #9344 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #19 January 18, 2004 Edit to add; "Your talking about a comparatively large rig--one that will wiegh closer to 30lbs than 20lbs" (with gear) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EDYDO 0 #20 January 18, 2004 I went through the same decision process 12 months ago. I jumped both. The Sabre2 has more glide, less toggle pressure and greater flare potential. I bought the Sabre2 and I am happy that I did. I consider the Spectre to be old technology. I am sure there are those with different opinions as to that statement, but the flare is my reason for saying it. Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #21 January 18, 2004 QuoteI bought the Sabre2 and I am happy that I did. I consider the Spectre to be old technology. I am sure there are those with different opinions as to that statement, but the flare is my reason for saying it. I don't understand how having different landing characteristics makes a canopy "old technology" compared to another canopy. 7 cell canopies typically just land differently 9 cells. Most people start jumping on 9 cells mains. Then they do a jump or two on a Spectre or Triathlon and when it doesn't land the way that they expect, it becomes a "bad" landing canopy. And that is simply not true. The Spectre lands as well as most 9 cell mains that I've jumped, it just takes a little bit of practice to get used to the 7 cell landing style. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #22 January 19, 2004 QuoteI consider the Spectre to be old technology. I am sure there are those with different opinions as to that statement, but the flare is my reason for saying it. ??????????????? What ????????????????? How do you consider the Spectre to be old technology? It is one of the most modern (non-crossbraced) 7-cell canopies on the market. Perhaps it was the individual canopy that you jumped? The Spectre offers a fantastic flare with plenty of lift. Now I am curious where you are coming from to make such a comment. Please. Enlighten me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #23 January 19, 2004 Here's my 100 jump wonder opinion. Most folks start out on big 9 cell student canopys. At my DZ when you have shown good canopy control skills you will be invited to try a smaller canopy. The smaller Triatlon canopys are also the regular rental canopys at my DZ. I've got a couple of dozen jumps 220-190 TRI canopys, for this I am thankful because if I ever need to use my reserve I won't be surprised landing a 7 cell canopy. Your results may vary. blues jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanofOZ 0 #24 January 20, 2004 I think I will go for the rig with the older container and the spectre vs. the newer container and sabre 1. Thanks for all the info! I will let you know how it turns out. RyanOz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #25 January 21, 2004 Try Sabre2 210 ;) Or, event Sabre2 190 after some jumps on rental rigs. IMHO, there one should not hurry with buying big size rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
