sunshine 2 #1 January 6, 2004 How do you approach someone to let them know their reserve pack job looks less than perfect? I occasionally see containers (mainly wings & javelins) that seem to be a bit "sloppy." I think to myself that the pack job could be better, but it doesn’t seem truly dangerous. However, at the holiday boogie I saw a Reflex that was closed quite poorly. The top and bottom flaps were actually not under the pop top. The corners of the flaps were on the pop top. I didn’t say anything at all to the owner, but its on my mind now. Ethically speaking, should I say something or just let it go? I mean, who am I to go up to someone and tell them about their gear? ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 January 6, 2004 QuoteHowever, at the holiday boogie I saw a Reflex that was closed quite poorly. The top and bottom flaps were actually not under the pop top. The corners of the flaps were on the pop top. There was a Reflex there with the CReW mod with small flaps on the top and bottom reserve flaps to come up over the pop top a little. Is this the rig you saw? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RTB 0 #3 January 6, 2004 If your own gear looks bad, tell the rigger. If someone else's gear looks bad, ask them to have a rigger look at it, the rigger can then give specific recommendations or talk to the rigger who did the pack job. If it is poorly done most (all) riggers would fix it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #4 January 6, 2004 QuoteThere was a Reflex there with the CReW mod with small flaps on the top and bottom reserve flaps to come up over the pop top a little. Is this the rig you saw? Well since i know nothing of CReW mods, i can't be sure. And it's because i don't know everything i'm scared to approach someone. I suppose it would give me peace of mind to quietly talk to the owner of the rig and have him tell me thats why it looked funny, but i just don't know if i should bother. Tis much easier to ignore it and look away, but then it eats at my mind.... ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #5 January 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteHowever, at the holiday boogie I saw a Reflex that was closed quite poorly. The top and bottom flaps were actually not under the pop top. The corners of the flaps were on the pop top. There was a Reflex there with the CReW mod with small flaps on the top and bottom reserve flaps to come up over the pop top a little. Is this the rig you saw? Derek I think that its what Derek refers to... as a Reflex owner, I usually notice them since there arent that manu around, and I did see a C-flex type reflex with the flaps, but didnt notice a obviously poor looking refex pack job....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #6 January 6, 2004 QuoteIf someone else's gear looks bad, ask them to have a rigger look at it, I am a rigger. But i still don't know if it's ok to approach someone....thats why i asked the question. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelted57 1 #7 January 6, 2004 If it comes easy, I'm automatically suspicious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #8 January 6, 2004 Well put RTB. I also look at this way. Instead of bashing others work, I focus on making mine look steller. And hope that others will take this into account and come back to me.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RTB 0 #9 January 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf someone else's gear looks bad, ask them to have a rigger look at it, I am a rigger. But i still don't know if it's ok to approach someone....thats why i asked the question. Well, I'm a rigger too and sometimes we have to make decisons that are not easy to make. If it bothers you enough, approach them. I think I would. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #10 January 6, 2004 QuoteHowever, at the holiday boogie I saw a Reflex that was closed quite poorly. The top and bottom flaps were actually not under the pop top. The corners of the flaps were on the pop top. I think you probably saw a C-Flex modified Reflex. It's pretty much impossible to pack the rig the way you state, as each of the four reserve flaps have a grommet that the loop has to go through. I'm not doubting that you saw something, but maybe it wasn't quite what you thought it was? As for sloppy packjobs; IMO, a rigger should know if there work isn't up to snuff. Just make sure you know what you're talking about before you go pointing fingers in public. If you're not sure, ask someone who knows more than you do. And for God's sake, don't start flapping your yap until you've spoken with the rigger who did the work first. There might be a reason why something was done the way it was, and if you go talkin' smack about the rigger who did it without first asking why, you can irreversibly damage his/her reputation, not to mention making yourself look like an ass. A rigger's reputation is a very important part of who they are professionally...it can make you, or easily break you. Everyone should be interested in how their gear works, and why things look or act the way they do, but don't get caught in the trap of thinking that just because something looks different its wrong. On the other side of that, don't be afraid to ask the rigger why they did what they did. Just think before you speak, that's all! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synapse 0 #11 January 6, 2004 I'm very new to skydiving with only 25 jumps and I have no idea how to judge how well a reserve is packed, but if I saw something on someone's rig that looked even remotely dangerous I would ask them about it. I wouldn't just walk up and say "Wow thats a horrible pack job!", but I would at least ask if thats the way its supposed to look. Maybe that would be enough to get them thinking about it or it may be some CReW mod that I was just ignorant to. Either way I would feel better about it if I said something rather than just forgetting about it because mentioning it may save that person's life. -syn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #12 January 6, 2004 I realize I don’t know everything about rigging and just wanted clarification on something. I’m not very familiar with a Relfex and how it gets closed. I have a good conscious and would never forgive myself if someone got injured or killed because I could’ve said something and didn’t. I do appreciate the help and answers I’ve gotten. But I also know that I would never speak to a fellow rigger in an accusing manner. I was simply asking how to approach a subject to give myself peace of mind. I’ll just silently let it go. I’ve only been a rigger for a year now and have tons and tons to learn. I’m well aware that learning never stops. When I saw the responses telling me about the mods on the Reflex, I felt kinda stupid. I didn't want anyone to question my abilities just cause there was something i didn't know. But then some awesome greenie talked to me and told me it’s ok that I don’t know everything. And she even said that my thread might be *gasp* useful to someone else. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 January 6, 2004 A rigger can't be expected to know every single container and every varient of every container. That is why it is mandatory to have the manual when packingDerek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #14 January 6, 2004 QuoteWhen I saw the responses telling me about the mods on the Reflex, I felt kinda stupid. Oh hush..... Thats why questions and manuals were invented...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #15 January 6, 2004 if something looks weird, I ask the person wearing the gear. On the plane, there were a couple of folks who had very strange looking 3rings. It looked almost like the canopies were on backwards, because the bottom ring was visible, but the top two were under the riser, so the 3ring was on the opposite side of the strap that it usually is on. I looked at it for a bit and finally asked. They laughed and assured me that was the way it was supposed to be, it was just a variation on the 3ring I was used to. By asking, I learned something new. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #16 January 6, 2004 Know your other riggers on the plane/ on the DZ. Most people have no idea who is and is not a rigger. Usually there are other riggers or experienced jumpers on the plane who may know about an uncommon modification. If you know who they are I'd just casually ask them if 'that jumper has a mod on their container'. Other times I've curiously stared at container and started a conversation: "what kind of container is that? How do you like it?" Never having told them I'm a rigger. People like to talk about their 'stuff' and are usually willing to offer up tons of information to someone who's geuninely interested. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #17 January 6, 2004 QuoteI realize I don’t know everything about rigging Nobody does, and nobody ever will...so you're in the same boat as the rest of us. QuoteI’ll just silently let it go. I hope you don't. More people need to ask more questions about what they see out in the world. That's the only way any of us learn about anything! Please don't stop asking questions. Just keep being polite and people will be more than happy to talk with you about just about anything! QuoteWhen I saw the responses telling me about the mods on the Reflex, I felt kinda stupid. I didn't want anyone to question my abilities just cause there was something i didn't know. You shouldn't feel stupid. So what, you didn't know everything there was to know about one of like seven major brands out in the field! I don't think anyone would question your abilities because of something like that. I know I didn't. Just keep learning, and don't ever be afraid to ask questions. Anyone who thinks less of you doesn't know what the hell they're talking about anyway! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #18 January 6, 2004 Yo sunshine! How'ya doing? When I see something that looks amiss on someones gear I let "them" know, posed either as a matter of fact or as a gear question. If some thing doesn't look right and you don't pipe up and nobody else catches it either there could be dire consequences, and you don't want anything on your conscious. At the least you get a learning experience (either in gear or people), at the most save someones life. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #19 January 7, 2004 hey Sunshine. Talking to another rigger about his work can be a mess to say the least. This summer I saw a rigger working away on a very simple closing loop. I barely could watch as he fought the process. I spoke with a second rigger that I knew and we watched for awhile in fear of what we where seeing. Another thing that was getting to us was that this rigger had the customers canopy laid out half packed in the normal packing area during a very small boogie, people where stepping over and around this persons reserve canopy as this rigger did not care. Finally the other rigger and I came to a conclusion that something had to be said. We spoke to this person, offered help and not insult and I think that was the part that made it cool with him. Turns out this person is over coming great life obstacles and is really an insperation, but he is also holding others lives in his hands. i have since found out that this rigger was at one time legally blind and has had surgery to help his vision and I guess he can see well enough to pack. But I am just glad that I am a rigger and no longer have to have my rig packed by any one else.www.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #20 January 7, 2004 Quote realize I don’t know everything about rigging and just wanted clarification on something. "There are no experts in this field, all the experts are dead." Keep asking questions. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #21 January 7, 2004 Those are called reversed risers and are found here in Europe quite a lot, because Parachutes de France's Atom have them, among others. But yeah, I suppose they do look kinda weird if you never saw any before. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #22 January 7, 2004 Maybe a dumb question but when I first started jumping (98, rental gear) somebody asked about my three rings, said they where upside down. I was told it was a reversed 3 ring system. Is that the same as reversed riser system?I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #23 January 7, 2004 Reversed 3-rings are extremely rare (i.e. large ring on top and small ring on bottom), however, reversed risers (middle and small rings on backside of riser) were popular about ten years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #24 January 7, 2004 Thanks. Now that I think about it I think they were on the backside of the risers. Hey, I was a student, I didn't have a clue. They told to jump, I jumped. So what kind of system was I jumping?I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #25 January 7, 2004 Quoteif something looks weird, I ask the person wearing the gear. On the plane, there were a couple of folks who had very strange looking 3rings. It looked almost like the canopies were on backwards, because the bottom ring was visible, but the top two were under the riser, so the 3ring was on the opposite side of the strap that it usually is on. I also did the same as you did, until they told me that's how Parachute de France do their 3 ring system... and now there is the Advance rig, with a "3 ring" but the middle one is not a ring, but some kind of oval shape... It received a prize for innovation at the PIA last year I think---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
