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Sangi, Try to understand Jerry's comments in the spirit they were intended. Sure Jerry is old and grumpy, but he is old and grumpy because he has a lot of scar tissue, scar tissue from doing foolish things when he was your age. He is trying to share his knowledge so you can learn the same lessons without the scars. Sometimes we have to revisit mistakes made thirty years ago, to avoid repeating them. And some of the ramblings on this forum are just grumpy old skydivers reminiscing about when they were young and beautiful. Let them ramble, because they are harmless old men. Tee! Hee!
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Hey Sangi, Don't talk too loudly, because your profile says that you are still jumping a Falcon and Swift Plus. Last time I checked, those canopies fell out of fashion fifteen years ago in Canada! Tee! Hee! Ignoring fossils is the overly-simplified answer I tend to give junior jumpers. Main canopies older than that tend to be made of F-111 fabric. Okay in its day, but if they are twenty years old, are probably worn out by now. Similarly, twenty year old main canopies made of ZP fabric open too hard for delicate young jumpers and - if they are any good - are worn out by now. Similalry, most reserves more than twenty years old were never designed to be loaded more than one pound per square foot. Every year stupid, fat, white men try over-loading old reserves and every year they hurt themselves re-learning old lessons. Ho! Hum! This is like reading accident reports in old issues of PARACHUTIST Magazine ... same accident, different date ... Ho! Hum! Similarly, most containers more than twenty years old probably don't have BOC or Cypres pockets or bridle covers and by the time a Master Rigger sews those on, it costs almost a s much as a ten year old container. ... and I am teasing you!
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Hi Sangi, There are times in life when two people just do not do a good job of communicating with each other. I am thinking this is one of those times. The incident that I wrote about happened probably 25+ yrs ago. That rig was fairly modern at that time. Hope that this clears that up for you, JerryBaumchen
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Hi Sangi, It was a good many years ago; about the time of your birth possibly, JerryBaumchen PS) And that comment is not to be negative towards you.
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A lot of factors effect inflation Sangi. How well the suit fits the pilot can effect inflation for one. Some suit designs are ultra critical of the fit. For example the acro/phantom1 series had indirect inflation of the leg wings. If the suit didn't fit right the inlets could be totally obscured. This design flaw was cured with later versions of the acro/phantom with direct inlets and airlocks. Most of the mono suits ( S-fly, Matter suits) are one big internal shape. Easy to pressurize but not in every orientation to the oncoming airstream. Easy in and easy out. They have smoother contours across the span and less air mattress effect. Some suit designs feature uncomplicated but yet very effective inlets and airlocks that hold in the air pressure very effectively during transitions through less than optimum angles of attack like the Tony suits. The air mattress stays tight longer until pressurization can resume. Some elements of this design has gone back to improve versions 2 of the acro-phantom-ghost over the version 1 but tested on the stealth ( as a test bed) from the PF line. One aspect of the new V3 arm wing is the completely closed off cell with simple inlet/ airlock design. The V3 has excellent air mattress like pressurization. The newer Tony arm sleeved suits and the V3 are the only suits with completely enclosed arm wing cells.
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Hi Sangi, OK, let's look at the photos & where you have circled things in yellow. 1. The reserve flaps on the Infinity & the Vector III are very different. The reserve flaps close in very dissimilar sequences on these two rigs. The Infinity top reserve flap tucks into the bottom reserve top flap ala Icon, Mirage, Wings & others throughout the world. The Vector III top reserve flap folds back under the two side flaps and does not tuck into the bottom reserve flap. 2. If my memory serves, the original Infinity ( designed when Larry Chernes owned Northern Lite ) had the main flaps in this manner before the Javelin was developed. Again, there are numerous rigs throughout the world that close/look like this. Just my old two cents on this . . . . JerryBaumchen
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Guys, guys........ This thread has gone on for more then 5 years with out any bickering. So let's not start it now. Sangi, there are many many differences between the 3 rigs. I have never heard anyone say they look alike in the past and suggest you get your hands on one and really look. They are all good rigs, but very different especially when you get down got the details of them. To other peoples point about cars having similar parts and pieces. It is true that all rigs have similiarities. There is only so many ways to build a rig. Maybe Kelly can jump in and explain to you just how different his rig is and maybe even some of the similarities for you. Dom
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I may not be a rigger, but I have done enough research on gear to know that the Infinity is most definitely not a copy of a Vector or Jav... Do some research and actually look at the rigs side by side and differences will become readily apparent. Oh, and Sangi, if you want people to give you a pleasant response you should perhaps consider wording your questions in a way that won't come off with a negative connotation
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Funny thing is, I posted to Sangi that he'd explode on opening if he jumped a V3 just a few days ago. I wonder if I've created a retarded new rumour among the DZ.com Mad Skillz crowd Do you want to have an ideagasm?
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Are my ears burning? Sangi, i'd be happy to catch up with you over a beer and answer your questions. Whqat DZ do you jump at? Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies
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Hey, I was wondering, what would happen if say a person with 100 skydives strapped on a V3 wingsuit? Would the outcome would be pretty much the same as throwing out a person on his own who has never jumped? If say a person with 100 skydives has a good tracking skills, would trying about an intermediate wingsuit (like Ghost or Phantom) be dangerous? Sangi "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean
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The guys youtube profile shows he's from Great Britain. Go figure. Maybe that's the guy they call "spotted dick". Sangi, is that you? Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
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The guys youtube profile shows he's from Great Britain. Go figure. Maybe that's the guy they call "spotted dick". Sangi, is that you?
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Who said it has to advance the sport (it may lead to others advancing the sport, time will tell). BTW errors in experimenting teach us much more than success ever will. Why cant it be done just for the pure thrill of it, like Hmm jumping a motorbike over 10 Buses. Most of you lot have your heads up your collective arses Sport skydiving and parachuting is an unnecessary endeavour, it it solely done for the thrill and excitement. Stop pissing on other peoples play time and go make a jump yourselves, try something different on the next one, you might just get a kick out of it. Sangi don’t reply You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing?
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Just to show you how stupid people really can be, and yes, I do mean stupid, regardless of his achievements. http://expn.go.com/expn/story?id=3055619 "But he is very possibly the least experienced, with only about 100 jumps and a beginner's rating to his credit." So what makes you think anyone else with 100 jumps wouldn't do it, they must be just as capable. Please for the love of god stop posting until you're ready to contribute something useful. (Sangi) Blink P.S. Great minds think alike Skittles!
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The last time I checked on this thread it was on page 6. And to be honest catching up on the whole ordeal has been one of the most annoying things I've done lately. I wanted to just jump to the end and give my $.02 but I don't want to repeat after someone else. I realize I've had a short career so far. I'm obviously not a TM. Hell i can't even freefly yet. My first jump was a a little over 2 years ago. It was a tandem at a certain dz. Do you know how much of it I remember? .......... Ya I remember little glipses of some clouds and a cameraman smiling at me. Then a sudden jerk and a quiet ride under a blue canopy. 6 months later I did my next jump. Yep, a tandem again. This time is was at my now home dz. I remember a little more, but not even close to everything. I have stills from the first jump and video from the second. So out of curiosity from this thread I went back and watched the video and looked at the pictures. Turns out, that first tandem was full of HD "tandem modern flying" and the drogue wasn't tossed until a few seconds before deployment. Watching the video closely, the TM was wearing an Eclipse rig. I don't know much about other tandem rigs, but I've packed several hundred Eclipse tandems (my home dz owns Eclipse's) and I KNOW that isn't a freefly friendly rig. Quite honestly it pisses me the F#@& off. Do you know how much of all that extra shit I remember? At the time, both jumps felt the exact same to me. I mean I just jumped out of a plane! Now with a few more under my belt, I realize things alot more. But back then, I had no idea what was going on. So why do it then? You can argue it all you want, but tandems are always dangerous jumps. In just over a year ive seen all kinds of videos and heard all kinds of stories of close calls with seemingly "normal tandem jumps". I agree with the experienced folk. Leave the damn tandems alone. The student (passenger) is counting on you to get them down safely. They are putting their life in your hands. And they sure as fuck won't know the difference between freeflying or belly flying when it's over. The unnecessary risk is pointless for so many reasons. Sure pushing the envelope is necessary for the sport. But do you remember seeing any tandems jump out in cars, or chase their rig out the door? No? I wonder why. Keep on pushing the limits for the experienced jumpers. Some great things have come from it! But damn, just give the tandem passenger the ride they want...a regular skydive. What if you're not willing to be bored during a regular droguefall? Simple. Quit jumping with tandems. Go freefly with your pals. And Sangi, we're pretty close on experience and no one expects us to know everything, far from it really. But gees, most questions you ask should be answered in your head with basic common sense as you type them out. When you get a rundown of a tandem rig maybe you'll understand why a little more. "Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52
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I am really puzzled by this thread. So far Sangi has only expressed curiosity in something that he freely admits is dangerous and risky. He has been bashed by swoopers who push the envelope in terms of wingloading and while landings under highly loaded canopies kill more skydivers than anything else these days (even experienced "conservative" jumpers like Tonto) they continue to expose themselves to the un-necessary and added risk. A number of base jumpers have reacted very negatively as well - another group who push the very envelope of what many people would call insane (myself included ) As someone put it even skydiving is an un-necessary risk activity - hell its not like he asked this on the bowling forum! The ONLY logical argument that I have heard is that tandem manufacturers are probably subject to a higher level of liability and therefore in terms of ethical behaviour it is unfair to risk someone else's livelihood for the sake of a cheap thrill. As to tandems being the holy grail/lifeblood of modern skydiving, I don't accept or believe that. Turbine aircraft and "large" DZ's provide a certain lifestyle or environment but so do little DZ's perhaps it is due to my entire skydiving experience being at a DZ with only a single cessna where we were annually treated to jumps from a CASA and helicopters courtesy of the airforce (Africa has its perks as these were cheaper jumps than the cessna). The environment is different and having lurked at a couple of large(r) UK DZ's you are clearly a customer of a business rather than a member of the family. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.
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This discussion has nothing to do with sport rigs. Sangi - It was already discussed. Re-read the thread. I won't repeat myself.
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Who the fuck cares? You don't seem to care what any other highly experience Tandem Instructors say if their opinions don't fit your view. Last post of mine in this thread, Sangi remember up thread how you said you have trouble finding people to jump with because you're a light weight? You sure that's the reason? I hope you find some open mindedness for yourself in this sport, for all the complaining you're doing about "old timers who are too set in their ways", you've developed that attitude in spades. You seem to equate open mindedness and forward thinking with rule breaking, not understanding that it takes open mindedness, the ability to think ahead, experience, blood and failures to create those rules. Without them Tandem skydiving would have never survived the 20+ years it has. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
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Oh god Look at this video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nrKDAdXc4bU&feature=related It's great footage of showing flight, the student looks absolutely awesome there. It's HELL OF A LOT more interesting to watch the student this way than watch his zoomed in face for 30 seconds and not see anything else. Sangi: By your blatant ignorance and lack of experience you have made yourself irrelevant to this discussion. I only respond to you because I think this point is relevant to the overall discussion. The youtube video is STILL very poor video from a tandem student's perspective. I understand that it may be exciting for you to watch because you can appreciate what you are seeing. You have experience that gives the video context. A first time tandem student will not see the video in the same context. Whether you think it’s boring or not, facetime is what the student wants and pays for. However, I can envision a student who may be excited that so many skydivers wanted to jump with her (as in the youtube video), and that it may outweigh the poor quality of the video. But this is a rare occasion. Most often it is only the student, instructor, and videographer participating in the skydive.
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''But it's no point arguing with these people on dropzone.com as I have noticed now, they're gonna defend their out of date opinion no matter what '' .. Your right Sangi .... arguin' with people on the net is pointless ... so here's what I can offer ... next time you are at the DZ I will be more than happy to explain / discuss ( I can show you three different tandem systems that we use ) the reason why you might not want to dick about with tandems in the way thats being discussed here Let me know when you are plannin on bein at the DZ Flipper
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Well good. I don't wanna be a part of something like this. Just in case you couldn't tell from the attitude in my posts. So its agreed Skittles stays away from Squeek and Sangi and off the load anytime they have a tandem rig on.
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I said i would do it with peope of MY choosing, and sangi would not be one fo those people i would choose. neither would skittles You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing?
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You and squeek need to quit just talking about doing this stuff and go do it. Sangi and Squeek, 1...2 yup that makes up a tandem pair. niteko will be your third.
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and i think Sangi is in the front of the line,,jumping up and down,,saying,,me next ! me next ! So what? Plus, do you really think that, or wish that upon someone? By the way, my comments are not directed toward you specifically, many people have said things like that. His thoughts are no different than most skydivers who want to progress. Most don't act on them but the people who do are indirectly the reason we have such good equipment to use now. I've done PLENTY of out of the ordinary jumps and while some people ridicule or think it's crazy... it's nothing compared to what others have done. You can do things in a haphazard way, or you can plan it out and train yourself to function under those circumstances. A lot of ripping is going on in this thread. I'll paraphrase one of those thoughts: - If you stand on my back I'll smash your face in when we get on the ground.- That statement is based on a random act. Someone who would do that has permission. It wouldn't be someone just hopping on out of the blue. No need to chew someone out for a simple thought. Thinning the herd comment is pretty lame. I personally think taking certain risks is cool. However it's cool to me... meaning I want to push my personal envelope. Expand my experience. Does it mean I'm going to randomly hop on the back of a Tandem?... Think about it logically. The answer in case it actually needs to be said is no. I applaud forward thinking. Telling a guy he's going to kill himself because he wants to see a picture and is teaching himself to fly is pretty obnoxious in my opinion. My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto
