cloud9

I can answer some of these very simply. The cia never said that the african uranium attempted deal didn't exist. The fact is Bush said it was British itel that said this and British intel still to this day stands by it. I believe it did in fact exist he tried to buy urranium period. As far as the Congress fault statement. No it's not a fault at all it's a necessary and just war to their credit they voted for it! As for the statemet congress only hears what the admin wants them to is B.S. we the people only get to hear what congress wants us to. They hear most all of it from the intel comittee which is bi-partison The deficit? Who knew what Septemper 11 was going to bring and how woefully weak we were in homeand defense. Who could predict what we would have to do to protect this country.

Very Proud and tired of the liberals blaming Bush. It took a congressional act to go to war. Congress heard from the same people that Bush did and agreed it was necessary to go to war. Bush was not the one telling Congress what was or was not in Iraq it was the CIA, DIA, FBI and other covert operatives. WMD was only one part of the reasons to fight the war. But the Bush bashers have made it the only reason, then of course without them the war must be unjust. Everything else said was found to be true.

I had 4 cutaways in my first 300 jumps. I'm really helping out some other folks average for sure.

There is a skydiving club at Fort Polk. It's run by SGT Sam Young, who is currently serving in Iraq. They normally jump in Beaumont TX at Ground Rush skydiving club. Ground Rush did have a Twin Bonanza however it had some problems and right now they are leasing a C-182. I don't know yet what they will end up with for a plane. I think its about 1 1/2 hours from fort Polk to Beaumont.

I have two rides on a Tempo 150, I bought it new with my rig. I have no complaints at all, it opened great it flew ok nothing special, and landed just fine. I will say this it either is or it seems smaller then advertised. It really didn't look any bigger then my 130 main and landed like a 135 it also packs up like a 135.

As has been said there really are very few definitive answers in skydiving. Most things are more like a rule of thumb. You can find if you keep digging a given situation that would or could make any canopy dangerous. The rule of thumb applies here; a bigger canopy is a safer canopy.

You know way back in the 30's a man named Will Rogers said something like this: Some men learn from reading. Some men will learn from observation and some men will just have to piss on the electric fence themselves I don't think much has changed in the 60 plus years since then.

Its overated!

I must confess it still amazes me how ignorant many of our voters are, and how easily steered by liberals. A statement like “Bush has harmed our economy.” If you’re going to make statements like that at least back them up. So how has Bush hurt our economy? The fact is in the last 2 yrs of the Clinton administration the economy was going down hill very quickly. Bush has managed to help get things moving again. How? Well tax breaks for one thing. Secondly we have had some of the worst economic disasters in recent years, the terror attacks, Enron, World COM and in spite of these consumer confidence is returning. Why? Because were seeing some unprecedented things like laws to put these executives in jail. And of course preemptive strikes to protect our nation. As for lying to the country about the war its been US policy since 1998 to remove Saddam from power, Clinton just had so many of his own demons to worry about he didn’t have time for our country. Just the UN resolution violations alone should have been more then enough, add to that a hit put on a US president that should be more then sufficient for anyone. Then look at the intelligence that was given many of the democrats that had the same information Bush had voted for the war. Now of course they’re trying to distance themselves from it. The socialist statement is so ludicrous I won’t even dignify it with a response. Finally for a skydiver to complain about the environment is the height of hypocrisy airplanes are some of the worst polluters out there. Skydiving is completely unnecessary, don’t get wrong I love it but I admit it goes against all environmental, tree hugging save the whales songs. We drive SUV’s, vans, and trucks cause they hold our gear and they’re more comfortable or we drive sports cars cause they’re fast There may be a few out there that actually drive small economy cars to try and help, then they get in airplanes and fly in circles polluting the hell out the air just for the thrill of jumping out. and then don’t want to vote for the man that tries to keep them fueled up. I guess this is why I never talk politics on the DZ!

Perhaps what hookit is trying to say, being the smartass he is is that the name of the device is spelled "CYPRES" *** And this is what it means. Cybernetic Parachute Release System

I think this just keeps going back to the same issue, not understanding what an elliptical canopy is. Sabre 2, Safire 2, Hornet, cobalt, stiletto, crossfire, and many others are all elliptical. The fact is some of the so called semi ellipticals are more elliptical then the so called full ellipticals. For example the Safire 2 is more elliptical then a stiletto, the stiletto is a more aggressive design but it is not more elliptical. Where do I get this information. Go to Aerodyne web site and read what they say on the subject in their planform factor. They are trying to educate skydivers but for some reason we seem to have preconceived notions that are hard to overcome.

Bill while I agree with you on the less experienced jumpers, this thread came about do to the loss of a very experienced jumper and an experienced swooper that just made a tragic mistake. All the talking in the world won't change the fact that humans will err on occation and swooping or making low turns is very unforgiving.

Not sure it's anything more then the way you pack your pilot chute. I have cordura on my Wings and have never had a hard pull.

Well I guess you can get serious but the fact is the subject has been talked to death. No pun intended. Everyone knows that low turns can kill you, so that means it's worth the risk to some people. When you think about every aspect of skydiving can kill you. Big ways are more dangerous then solo jumping. Free flying impacts can be very dangerous if someone corks. Wing suits are a lot more dangerous in an emergency. Crew dogs all have many more reserve rides then the average bear. So the question begs to be asked what would you do to stop the problem? Is it fair to suggest banning low turns to the people that love to do them. If someone succeeds banning low turns does the attention then go to FF or big ways or wing suits or etc. The only answer I see is continued training and excepting the fact that people are going to die jumping. I'm not saying liking the idea only that it's going to happen.

Well I don't know what caused the hunting but I do know people often react much to quickly to what they see. Lion permits are not just given in most area's and the most likely cause for this hunt was a problem beast possibly even a man eater, but I guess that's what them folks get for living on the same continent as then lions.

While I suppose if your very narrowed minded this might seem unreal. However experience tells us that in the last two years at least two people have died from developing line twist below 1000 ft. and of course there is a video out there from the WFFC where someone flew through a canopy below 1000 ft and the jumper cut away and deployed a reserve which he landed under safely. So it has happened and will happen again. Good question and definitely food for thought!

From Atair: "using a pilot chute that has more pull than necessary at 120mph just makes things worse for you in the event of a high speed premature deployment." I think it was answered, because Atair feels like a deployment at high speeds on a Cobalt will be survivable, and the worst part could be the pilot chute. I don't know if its true or not but it explains why they recommend the smaller size. The other manufacturers don't make the same claim on high speed deployments.

While I applaud your statement, it really does depend on the advice your talking about. I think a new AFF student can give some very sound advice to a newer student. On the other hand someone with 50 jumps giving advice on swooping might not be in the best interest of all involved.

From the PD web site: 3. PILOT CHUTE The pilot chute has a big effect on canopy deployments. The size, type of fabric, length of bridle, apex length, mesh size, and aerodynamic shape all affect the deployment of the parachute. Some pilot chutes have too much drag at terminal velocity. This can cause these problems: 1. They slow the bagged canopy down so quickly that the chance of line dump is increased. 2. When reaching line stretch, the jumper instantly accelerates the canopy back to his speed, since it is attached to him by the fully deployed lines. This is the first force the jumper feels at line stretch. (Moments later, the canopy starts to fill with air and slows down again.) A pilot chute with too much drag will have slowed the bagged canopy down so much that the jumper will experience quite a strong force when the canopy reaches line stretch. The canopy feels this jolt too, and the pack job will be forcefully spread apart by this force. This can cause harder openings, since the now disorganized canopy will inflate more quickly. In extreme cases, it may even open hard enough to cause structural damage to the parachute system. A pilot chute with more moderate drag will get the canopy to line stretch with less severe shock to the jumper and the canopy. The line dump problem is also less likely to occur, and the pack job is more likely to be released from the bag in an orderly fashion. Although a pilot chute with more moderate drag will produce more consistent openings, a pilot chute can have too little drag. This could happen if it is too worn out, too small, malfunctioned, or designed improperly. The danger here is obvious. The pilot chute must consistently function correctly. If it does not, a bag lock, or a pilot chute in tow may result. This can happen with a ripcord system, a pull out, or a throw out, if the pilot chute problem is bad enough. Most, but not all pilot chutes from container manufacturers are compatible with Performance Designs canopies. A pilot chute made from normal F-111 type fabric should be no more than 34" in diameter. We have found 30" to 32" to be adequate for most sport sized canopies (all measurements are finished dimensions). Pilot chutes made of zero porosity fabric are more sensitive to specific design criteria, and two of similar size may have widely different drag. They are definitely more sensitive to variations in design, with factors such as mesh size and hole size at the pilot chute base making a big difference in the drag produced. The zero porosity pilot chutes that we have tried that work adequately are between 26" and 28" and have relatively fine mesh. These pilot chutes also seem to be more sensitive to variations in line stow length and line stow tightness than regular pilot chutes.

The 24" pilot chute that came with my wings was not special ordered. I ordered the container for a Heatwave 150 main and that's the pilot chute that came with it. As far a dumping in a track maybe no one else does recomend it, Idon't know but I do know that they should know how to deploy the canopy they designed. I also know that George Galloway was recomending Pyscho packing for a long time and many other manufacturers still recomend you don't. Does that make George stupid or wrong? I don't think so.

Giving an honest opinion about a cobalt is not bashing. However making statements like you don’t see PD, or Icarus or whatever making such recommendations is, when they in fact have had some problems. PD, Icarus, Precision, Glide path and I’m sure several others have had problems with canopies of one type or another. All have made out of the norm recommendations to fix those problems. Or to say Atair has a design problem because some Cobalt’s open hard, but that Icarus does not have a design problem when some Crossfire’s collapsed is also very biased. If some work great and others don’t its probably not a design flaw is it? It sounds more like quality control and all the manufactures have had some problems. To continually seek out one is again very biased. Many very experienced jumpers (Chuck Blue) is one that comes to mind have said they have never had a bad Cobalt. On the other hand many other experienced jumpers say they have had nothing but bad experiences with their Cobalt’s. (Ron comes to mind) Those are honest opinions, to attack Atair because a Cobalt opens hard is bashing, unless the other manufactures are brought into the equation also; unless the conversation is just about Cobalts. Think about this statement. “Be very leery of any company that makes you change a part of your system to make up for a bad design in their part of the system” this was directed at Atair. Now also consider that PD recommended some off hand packing technique’s people used pocket sliders etc. Icarus recalled canopies for a line trim mod and most people didn’t think the new Crossfire flew or opened a good as the pre-mod. Precision modified their reserve because some Ravens blew up; some PISA hornets went to larger sliders. Triathlons now have a modified or different break system. The Safire had a line mod in Fact Derek was a major part of that. So what company is left? Is there still a canopy manufacturer out there that we can buy from with the above statement in mind? I have nothing but respect for the jumpers with more experience then I have, and many here know more right now then I ever will. But I do know there seems to be a serious bias by some people towards Atair products and it’s even apparent that it comes from a dislike or distrust of Dan Preston. All I’m asking is that you very experienced, knowledgeable people keep us informed (because we do appreciate it) without biased statements and with facts or personal knowledge.

I'm not a so-called Atair supporter, but I do get tired of the bashing I see here. First off did smaller pilot chutes come to the market after Atair started making canopies? Hint answer no! so they do make their canopies to fit industry standards on pilot chutes. Next my wings came with a 24" ZP pilot chute the same size and type Atair recommends. Finally PD one of the best companies out there made the Sabre, which is one of the hardest opening canopies ever, built. They even wrote an article on how to tame a hard opening canopy. I have yet to hear them say there was a design flaw. I have heard it said get a pocket slider, or roll the nose, roll the nose and tuck it in the center cell and a bunch of other cures. Icarus built the crossfire which was prone to collapse they have yet to admit to a design flaw, although they made a new Crossfire2. I'm not bashing anyone just simple honest observations so what about the rest of you, honesty goes a long way! I do not jump a Cobalt, I do jump a Space and it always opens very soft.

This amazes me cause up front I admit I know nothing about these things. With that said just a little and very little common sense will tell you that the manufacture of a rig has not, can not and will not ever test that rig with every canopy out there. With that said how the hell would they know what's the best PC for a given canopy? On the other hand a canopy manufacturer can and usally does check out their canopy with many variables in pilot chutes. The container manufacturer is at best a generic fit all. The canopy manufacturer has at least probably tested what they are saying. So with just a little common sense a container manufacturer's recommendation will probably work, a canopy's manufacturer recommendation will probably work better. Common sense! It would be really foolish to say a certain size pilot chute works better with a given container no matter what main, no sense at all.

I think some of these folks are related to the Clinton's (lets see now, depends on what your definition of is, IS)

If you can safely fly and land a Vengeance 120 then you wouldn't have any problem doing the same with a Velocity 120. I don't see it as that big a deal. Now if the request was for a 150 something and they gave him a 120 that could be major.