cloud9

Agreed we need to elect people willing to do the tough job. Revamp the tax system and no loop holds, no grants no corporate welfare programs!

I don't know how true that is, but they are beholding to the stock holders. I know I worked for a major oil company and invested in stock. I just retired at age 59 yrs 6 mo and with a little luck should be able to pay myself the rest of my life. If the stock wasn't making money I would either still be working or would have invested in other stocks. If too many started investing in other stock then the company would have been in great financial trouble. It's a balancing act for sure. The biggest problem isn't even paying the taxes, it's the tax code. The tax codes are so complicated companies have to hire lawyers and accountants just for taxes. They pay millions a year just to comply with the tax laws. I think if we just simplified the tax code it would help a lot.

Well you might have me on this one. But hey there were dinosaurs....they're big critters right? You just didn't go back far enough. I have to admit I've never been in that part of the country.

That was an executive order the law came from the Taylor grazing act of 1934. The fact is all of the ranchers quit paying grazing fees all 53 of them. Just all the others folded up and went out of business. The problem and why they stopped paying grazing fees was because the government started reducing the amount of cattle on the permits. The ranchers couldn't stay in business. This after they had spent years building a business that was authorized by the government. The old saying is true and government that gives you all you need has the power to take everything you have. As for welfare cowboy now i find that funny. He would be the only welfare recipient the liberals ever didn't like. Keep in mind the permits were being restricted because of a tortoise that wasn't even endangered. You know go back some years and look at the same land. There were buffalo as far as the eye could see. There were elk and deer and antelope as well. The poor little desert tortoise had to make it with the big boys or die. Men killed off all the buffalo and now cattle range the same land, except there are no where near as many. But hey the government needs to step in and take care of the tortoise. They abuse the law all the time by claiming endangered species exist and then throw all the people off the land. It has to be stopped and I will stand to stop it.

This is going to be hard to write in just a few lines. Bundy paid grazing fees for years, with those fees came permits. The BLM starting limiting permits, kicking cattle off the land. This after ranchers paying fees for years and with permits erecting fences and other land improvements. Then using the endangered species act the government really went nuts. Now imagine you've paid your fees you've done the right thing and they put you out of business anyway. All in the name of a desert tortoise that you know is not endangered. The endangered species act is one of the most abused (laws) in this country. Just because it's law doesn't make it right. Court rulings are overturned all the time. Even the supreme court does't always agree with decisions of 5 to 4 in most cases.

Yes without a doubt. I think there will be a lot more discussion before it's over. Poor Ronnie still fading heat. Grazing fees were started by the Taylor grazing act of 1934. This is when a bill introduced by Edward T. Taylor became law. Oh and just because you made it political Taylor was a democrat.

Exactly this is the kind of thing causing the problems. The BLM is constantly changing the rules and often for idiotic reasons. Locking cattle out of the water is saving the water quality right? Give me a break, this water is used by Elk, Pronghorn and even Mule deer. So they locked out all the wild animals that need the water source way to go great management. So Deer, Elk and Antelope use the water source but a few cows are going to destroy it I don't think so. This is all about government control.

I have no Idea what you're getting at to be honest. You found a racist, the citizens rightfully called for him to resign. I don't think the commissioner was playing any card, it's the way he feels. He wasn't claiming anything for a cause or group it's his personal feelings.

Ah CNN you know I remember when they came online. Back when they were actually a news agency. Back when Jessica McClure was trapped in the well, I watched CNN for hours and even as the hours turned into days. I cheered with the whole country when they finally rescued that little 18 month old child from the well. Used to love that station, not so much these days.

Thanks I'll take both as a compliment, but I'm ready to retire so I guess I missed my calling. Oh I spent pretty much all day at L.S.U. for my nephews graduation ceremony. After talking with many folks over there it seems as a country we really are more divided then ever before. Well possibly with the exception of the civil war.The good news is if liberals, conservatives and libertarians could have civil discourse at LSU there is hope for our great republic.

I thought I made myself clear it can't be answered because liberals claim all republicans are racist.

What's civics?

So Reid lied and I didn't that simple

This is one of the biggest problems right here. Racist is used so often and for such ridiculous reasons it no longer bears much meaning to me at all. If I said I wanted to end welfare would I be a racist? Only if I were a republican, now people are even saying republicans are using code words. Like (and this would actually be funny if not so pathetic) welfare, Chicago, food stamps, and of course the list goes on. Congressman Jim Clyburn actually said the whole english language is racist created by slave owners. Congresswoman Marcia Fudge said “If the language is being used to criticize a black person then we must deem such language to be irreparably and irrevocably racist,” So anyone that disagrees with their politics and actually has the audacity to say so is a racist. The word no longer means anything to me.

Typical liberal response resort to name calling as if it changes the facts. To infer I'm a liar would be insulting if not coming from a liberal. Harry Reid stood on the senate floor and said Mitt Romney paid no taxes for ten years. Here's a link if you would like to see it for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMChd6QchaU That was just one of many bold face lies

Actually the republicans have come up with quite a few alternative ideas. They have even sent a bill to the senate. Harry Reid won't even bring it up for a vote. After all how could he claim the republicans are not doing anything if he actually showed they have a bill. Then again Harry Reid stood on the senate floor and told lie after lie because he knows that speech on the senate floor is protected. But we've come a long way from the Bundy situation haven't we. I guess I'll stop high jacking the thread, I really meant to keep it on topic.

Guess were just going to have to disagree on what we have found to be historical fact. Where the history comes from often determines what the "facts are". I find that most liberals hate the democratic past so they pretend it was someone else. Of course anytime one party wants to find blame it will always be the other party that did it.

The will of the people is to keep parts of the law. Most don't understand that's all but impossible. The law needs to be repealed to actually get what the people want. Or we could just continue to wait like Pelosi said "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in the bill" the law is still being written and no one as of yet knows what the regulations that are coming are going to be. But having the IRS involved can't be a good thing.

There's no historical fact at all to this, just more liberal rhetoric. I live in the south, I pretty much have first hand knowledge.

It’s kind of amazing how much we assume and or take for granted in life isn’t it. You see my mother ran off when I was 4 yrs. old and my father well he wasn’t really a father. So my two sisters went to live with my grandmother. She kept me for a few months but decided I was too much trouble. So I grew up in various foster homes. At age 17 I was attending high school while working for a pizza shop and staying in a friend’s gazebo his parents were unaware. It gets damn cold in N.J. in the winter (yes N.J.) so I knew I needed a change. I went to visit a recruiter, the Viet Nam war was still a problem and the Marines still needed men. So I dropped out of school and joined the Marines, best decision I ever made. I got a GED while in the Marine Corps and attended college when I got out. My first taste of anything political was when I came home from overseas and found all the protesters out there. I really couldn’t help but think what ungrateful little assholes they were. They grew up in the greatest country in the world, had a home, food, clothing and love all just given to them. They didn’t appreciate anything they had or what had been done for them. I still feel the same way about those kind of people. So now you know where my politics come from. As for either or; Republican or Democrat, well we are a two party system like it or not. So if you want to have an active say in your elected officials then yes you need to align yourself with one or the other.

Of course not, just people that don't like historical honesty. I did indeed cherry pick but they are indeed facts. Progressives have been changing history for years and years but the I.T. age is changing all of that. The G.O.P. was actually started as an anti-slavery party. I guess liberals think that party has somehow now morphed into the democratic party? In any case I digress and don't have another day to spend with you all in debate. It is interesting, fun and even educational but time consuming.

Sorry these are historical facts, cherry picked indeed but nonetheless facts. It was southern Democrats that fought against all of these things. I also find it amazing how much liberals hate Fox. Nothing I have written in this entire thread has had a thing to do with Fox. As for my belief well as one that votes conservative and one that supports what I have written. The proof would be yes apparently we do support these and others causes like them.

Actually Bill I think people would like to see parts of the law remain. The majority don't want the majority of the law. The only way to fix that is to repeal it and start over. So with that said, it is the will of the people to get rid of the law and replace it with something that might actually help. But this thread is about overreach of the government and that's the only reason It got an honorable mention.

While a will concede the majority of the supreme court does not agree with me. I will still say that doesn't make it right only law. Look at the ACA a 5-4 supreme court decision. Legal scholars all over the country thought and still believe it is unconstitutional. Even the great legal minds of the U.S. supreme court couldn't agree. But we are stuck with it as law. Even though the majority of people don't want it. Nothing right about that nor should it be constitutional. The justices also decided slavery was legal and that Africans were property. They also decided that women couldn't vote and made a host of other bad decisions. So I reject that it is the end all cure all. I will continue to protest and attempt to make changes to regain our true republic.

Ok so you got me there I do lean more towards libertarian then your garden variety conservative. However Republicans freed the slaves Republicans passed the 14th amendment Republicans had the first African American governor The first women in congress passed the 19th amendment giving women the right to vote Granted citizenship to Native Americans Passed the 1964 civil rights act Democrats Created the KKK All facts