riggermick

Big brass number 8 grommet seated on the top of your deployment bag instead of a smaller one (either S/S or brass). It's the grommet that your bridle passes through. A number 8 will allow the deployment bag to slide along the bridle after the canopy has cleared the bag. When the bag reaches the pilot chute it will slide 50 to 75% up the mesh section of said pilot chute effectivly chokeing it off, presto collapsed pilot chute!!! The down side: Over a relativly short time it will destroy your pilot chute, requiring you to buy a new one much sooner. Another down side is, it is MUCH easier to get some canopy top skin material caught in the grommet along with the bridal which will increase your chances for canopy top skin damage or a potential cut away from a catastrophic failure or enough material at the right place to cause an uncontrollable spin. There you have it! If you are a careful packer the malfunction/ damage can be reduced/ eliminted, but the poor old pilot chute will still get the snot beaten out if it every time. It's you're call. Mick.

There are two ways to make a container long and skinny (measured from yoke to BOC and from back pad to pins side) like the old jav or shorter and fatter like the new jav. Actually there are three basic was to design a rig the two you mentioned and the third: thin and wide, thats how most rigs were made in the late 70's. Sorry, didn't mean to interupt your thread but did ask for "factual information". Mick.

I liked "Wings" as much as "skydive", remember the theme song? "Give me wings so I can fly, touch the clouds and touch the sky" forget the rest of the lyrics for now, it's been a while. If Jean Boenish would have them digitally re-mastered I'd buy 'em. Both movies were way ahead of their time. Mick.

Don't know where it came from and haven't seen it in 20 + years, but I do remember the quote " happy are those who dream dreams and are willing to pay the price to see them come true" It was, and still is my credo!! I, personally feel that was the movie that turbo kicked skydiving into the "new age". Hell, it was Sky Capers that actually got me started in the first place!! I met Carl on one ocassion at Perris years ago and he left a lasting impression on me. I guess we all have our heros. Most of my early heros were not superstars or the "industry" people, but the local guys that just had common sense. The late 70's was a great time to begin "the journey" into the skydiving scene. Most of he really scary shit was leaving the stage and new innovaions were beginning to arrive on the scene. These people left and still do ,have a huge footprint on the equipment industry today. Looking back, it wasn't really that long ago, really! Mick.

Mick.

Hi Nick, Bigun (from PM), We would still be in business today if the industry hadn't taken a dump in the autum of 1998. Many businesses folded during the time from 98 to 01 (anyone remember PD source or Stunts equipment?) we were relativly new and carried a high debt load. This was the primary factor that was ultimatly impossible to overcome in light of the (then) current business environment. It seems the "industry" is still struggling in the wake of this upheavel. When I designed, built and tested the Reflex it was my ultimate goal to build the best rig that my experience and the (then) current technology could produce. I feel that I did accomplish that goal along with plans for furthering the concept in the future. Unfortunatly (and hereby the ditty hangs) it did not work out that way. That's how it goes in business sometimes. I hold no regrets about what I concieved/ created, I still believe 100% in what I feel was the best rig for the time. Others may dissagree, that is their perogative, but my motivation was/ is still vaild today. I am gratified that the Reflex is still performing for the majority that still uses them as I had envisioned, that is: Performing as advertised, providing a comfortable experience and built to last! I would love to enter the "industry" again under similar curcumstances (not the late 90's business environment though), but alas it is not going to happen anytime soon. Bottom line: Ray Farrell will service the rigs and supply parts. I built them for comfort,longevity and practicailty. That's the approach I took when I designed the dammnd thing in the first place. Mick.

WHY? Obviously you are an engineer (according to your profile), but a engineer of what? What is the heart burn with a dyed rig? As a rigger of many years and many dyed rigs and associated washings, I don't see the issue with a tye dyed H/C. I'm curious as to your stand against dyed rigs. What is the CORE issue? It's been done successfully for years what's the issue? Just trying to understand where you are coming from. Mick. No stranger to danger!!

OK, the inverse square law is maybe a bad analogy but it is the only one I could think of at the time. But looking at diagrams of the inverse sq it does shed some lighton how a force is distribited over a larger area for the same load/ speed/ weight. If more fabric is involved between the load attachment points (as in a bigger canopy) then a greater volume of material will available to absorb/ attenuate more of the shock loading than with a much smaller canopy. In addition to longer lines (more material), the larger cells (or more of them) and their accompaning load tapes will be scaled up accordingly, giving still more material to help absorb the load. This coupled with a longer fill time due to the larger cells, will further degrade the inital forces on the entire platform. Take, for example a 20 lb load applied to a very very small canopy that causes it to fail during opening, that same 20 lb load applied to a much larger canopy will have little effect due to the attenuation charicteristics of the increased volume of material it has to overcome and its increased size which will increase the fill time dramaticly. It should be pointed out that a parachute doesn't just stop once it has been deployed, it undergoes a series of "slow down intervals". These are most often witnessed by the inflation (spreading) of the bottom skin which slows the load and brings it to a near vertical position, followed by the cell inflation which causes the wing to pressurize and start to take flight in a close to horizontal fashion. However the closer the intervals are together the quicker the opening will be. When ram air canopies are scaled up it is not a linier process, there are many dynamics that are changed due to the scale up process. Cell size, performance, material considerations and angles all have to be re-calculated in order to produce similar results. All of this has a direct bearing on the loads felt and how they are distributed. I'm not a canopy engineer (I'm a H/C engineer) but I've been around a few like Gary Douris and Ernie Villaneuva of Free Flight (Amigo reserves, Preserve reserves, BRS etc) and this what I personaly gleaned from them. Jerry B, you're a mechanical engineer, if you're listening (looking?) what is your take on it? Am I right or have I completly missed the mark? The way I see it is; The more material and distance between the load points, the greater the attenuation properties of the article in question. Am I thinking correctly? Bill, Jerry, your thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Good discussion!! Mick.

Any more educated input?? Sure, whadaya wanna know? Mick.

If I am 274# out the door on my Smart 220, am I just as likely to blow it up as I would be on a 170 sq ft reserve. Worded another way, if I am willing to accept the risk factor of jumping a 220, then why would I not jump a 170. After all, they are both TSOed the same. ----------------------------------------------------------- This is where the inverse square law comes in to play. Basicly stated: As the surface area insreases the energy of load is distributed over a greater area effectivly decreasing the overall load on any given point. Make sense? This all assumes that the canopies are equally loaded and constructed the same way dropped at the same air speed. There is more to it than just that but it is a factor that affects the outcome of heavy drops dramaticly. To those of you that have been involved in some reserve testing. Have you tested any beyond the TSO requirement and on to the point of destruction, did the smaller ones, of the same design, fail first. If a design did not survive the TSO test, was it necessary to take all sizes back to the drawing board, or only the smaller ones. _---------------------------------------------------------- There is no requirement in TSO 23D to test every size, just the overall design. However there are rate of decent required in 4.3.7 not to exceed 24 ft/sec with a max of 36 ft/ sec in an unalterd post deployment configuration. so as you can see it is a little more vague than it seems. ---------------------------------------------------------- Ok, I think you get the point of my question. In my quest to become educated, I would also like to know more about the testing phase of reserve design. I have read that the test is taken to 1.2 times the amount of the TSO label. Now, is that 1.2 times 254#, 1.2 times 150 knots, both, either????????? ----------------------------------------------------------- Good luck in your quest, The FAR's and the TSO testing documents can be ambigious in places and therefore subject to different interpretations. Mick.

Then maybe I should make him a moderator here... Sure. You've got the cat by the tail. Phree doesn't moderate this forum. As a participant in these forums and someone with a keen interest in rigging and working towards his ticket he's more than welcome to offer his opinion here. And my final thought: Even if you actually did get it right, you would have been better off actually discussing the issue rather than challenging his credentials. All is well in the land of Phreezone vs Riggermick (we've communicated). I don't believe it was an attack (it was never intended to be) but more of a observation. I was just curious how it all goes down. As for "attacking" someones credentials I, and others feel that it is a legitamate question to ask an individual posting under color of authority what their qualifications are. If they (their qualifications) are not plainly listed the advice/ order given is ambigious at best, weather it be an under cover officer, doctor, a rigger or a moderator. I now (as I'm sure many others who do not wish to name themselves) now understand the "green screen" of moderators is not forum specfic. Maybe cross forum color change could be a feature in the future to avoid any type of confusion, what say ye? There was never disrespect intended and (I hope) none was conveyed, if there was I appologize as that was not my intent. That's it. Mick Cottle. Play safe. Sth California USA.

Dear Phree, So, now you are a moderator with no rigging certificate and just a scant six years in the sport and who will not give your full name in your profile, you now feel justified in giving rigging advice to all and sundry? I'm not saying that your advice is bad (it actually makes sense) but your lack of qualification and level of anonimitiy leaves somthing to be desired. I'm just curious, what exactly is the criterion for a "moderator" in any given forum? I have always found that in order to bring crediblity to a discussion one should have the required rating, at a minimum in this forum, a seinor (or equivlent rating) should be mastered in order to promilgate advice on the given subject. I'm not trying to "bust your balls" here but my concern is valid, as a moderator of a "gear and rigging " forum shouldn't the MINIMUM qualifiction at least be a seinor rigger ticket (or foregin equivlent)? How do these decisions get made? It's a valid question if one want's to protect the intregrety of the discussion group. Your thoughts? Sangrio, your thought's also? Awaiting your answers with a positive reception. Cordually yours, Mick Cottle. (you know the rest)

PATRICK DE GAYARDON, for Christ sake... You should know this... I was too fricken lazy to scroll back up to find the correct spelling OK? Sheesh!! I was once told that I was apathetic, I replied that I didn't care.

I agree!!!!! Mick.

Hey Rob, Remember the 1982 RW 1 soft ring issue? I cut many rings off of harnesses that failed the pull test. RW 2 seperable rings came into vouge, spooky huh? BTW they were all US Forgecraft products. Mick.

Quote"what would be the chances of the bridle pulling out the d bag?" ask riggermick. he knows. Approaching zero (chances of successful deployment that is). Very Patric De Garion (sp?) like. good rule of thumb: Don't do any container tacking while canopies are packed inside!! why do we continue to try to re-invent the three sided wheel? Circular ones work just fine. mick.

THAT, was a very classy thing to do, well done!! Kudos!! Mick.

----------------------------------------------------------- Wax is not like honey, it's not sticky, all it does is provide more friction. Mick.

This is so sad Bear was such a great guy, we always used to kid each other about our D licence numbers. I once bet him my NZ D was lower than his US D number, mine is D 139 and his was D 138, he won and I bought the beer that night. Whenever we would see each other at the DZ our greeting was "139, how's it going? Hi 138 just great!" RIP bear, I'm glad I got to know you. Mick.

It does pull the ball right up to the handle ------------------------------------------------------------ Not good!!! There's your answer, it's too short, waaay too short. Change it now. The swedge shouln't even come close to touching the handle until it is actually pulled. Mick.

I know this, but i think there is no problem for a experienced rigger to add a bridle attachment point? ....changing the slider should also help....i have read Just time and money. It's a major job to intall a bridle attachment point. It involves opening many load bearing seams and installing the reinforcing, then re-closing the aforementioned seams (which is exacting work and therefore costs). All in all it's an expensive and time consuming proposition, easier to "borrow" a demo made for that purpose. My .02 Worth. Mick.

Sex wax (DR Zoggs et:al) is essentualy bees wax and not harmful to polymers like webbing. In the days of cotton, bees wax was used to seal the ends of webbing, as it couldn't be hot seared. Turn unders were prefered but not always practical for all applications, so tape wraps and beeswax were the prefered method. It does increase friction between two surfaces and that it's primary use. Mick.

Good one!! Mick.

OH YES! I clearly remember the RELIGIOUS nature of rigging in Southern California. Fortunately most of those zealots burned out and moved on. I even remember one - newly minted - Master Rigger offering to "fuck you up" over a trivial matter. Hint: the answer was in a drawer less than a meter from him. Ah, you've lost me there, I'm drawing a blank, what was the issue? Maybe that will spur the thought process along. I do remember alot of huge egos bumping into one another, I also remember Sandys "secret" book in which he kept notes on all riggers in the area. The hope was to catch some trasgression and banish/ destroy one, two, as many as they could to ease the "rigger glut" in Sth CA. When I talked to a certain rigger (of shorter stature) years later he admitted to me that it wasn't so much about safety as it was MONEY. That, I and others had always assumed so years before, proving that politics is always about money even when it's not immediatly obvious. Mick.

Airtec or the rig manufacturer? In the US (master rigger) no approval needed from anyone except the "administrator" and the written instructions of both the AAD and H/C mfg's in hand. Pretty simple. Mick. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you mean that the $100 - that I mailed to Airtec in exchange for a video tape and a purple binder - was a waste? Before I got Airtec's blessing, I remember Square One's loft manager FIERCELY protecting his RIGHT to be the only rigger who could do Cypres-retrofits! Cypres-retrofits were almost a RELIGIOUS issue with him! No, not a waste, but a hundred bucks was a little steep for the instructions. Both you and I know all about the Sth CA rigging politics of the 80's and 90's, I wonder if anythings changed that much? Mick.