RhondaLea

Meep! and a big hug to you, Jack. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

So how did the imposter get my password for dropzone.com? I mean, I'm posting to auk, the last ditch on usenet, not alt.hackers.malicious. Hi Squeak. Hi Dave, and beep! right back atcha. Dave, do you remember the aol skydiving message boards? Some of those posts were pretty interesting. I think I have 'em saved on my old Mac, but the chances of my ever being able to get that data is just about zero, so I guess I won't be able to share. Anyway, try not to get the old man too stirred up or he'll have a heart attack or something. At the very least, he'll post so much that Jerry will have to spend all his waking hours posting back to him, and he won't even have time to make a skydive. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Well before. I started posting to rec.skydiving in 1995. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Uh... If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

What did you do with Johnny Mnemonic? Yakuza killed him. It wasn't my fault. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Actually... I'm on dial-up at the moment. But I do type pretty fast. :) rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Holy shit, where did you come from? I slip in and out of the ether. :) If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Migrating_settings_to_a_new_profile or http://lifehacker.com/software/ask-lifehacker/ask-lifehacker--moving-firefox-to-a-new-computer-134611.php If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I didn't miss anything. Words of wisdom: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain122650.html If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I groundcrewed Thor Alex's jump. Oh wait. That wasn't your question. I have five jumps from NRGB. No big deal. But I still know more about the ESB than Mr. Goldsmith.

You are utterly clueless about the topic on which you have chosen to expound. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Vintage Cliff or, if you can't get the link to work (works for me just fine), paste the non-clicky version into your browser: http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=nPJnxA8AAACjFVthODk4BKwGtGMAvqAX

Sorry, but that still misses my point, as well as the points of several other people who've said the same or similar thing. We're not referring to the physical feel or skill; we're referring to fear factor, sensory overload and brainlock in someone who was decades uncurrent. You're trying to say that currency lessens the fear factor, sensory overload and brainlock. I don't agree. I don't think currency has anything to do with it. Clair's input would be valuable in this thread. There are others whose input would be useful, as well, but she's the only person who has actually posted here who I know has had the experience of making a base jump with no prior experience. I don't recall that Clair ever had an issue with fear, sensory overload or brainlock. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

And exiting from an airplane more closely simulates (and thus aids one in acclimating to) the fear factor and sensory overload experienced by an uncurrent jumper at the instant of a real BASE exit than practicing off a diving board or even the side of a swimming pool does. My first jump off that bridge felt nothing like jumping out of an airplane. It felt very much like jumping from a high board, something I have not done since I was very young. But it may be different for me than for anyone else in that regard. I'm extremely sensitive to noise--it stresses me out a lot--so my jumps off that bridge and the single balloon jump I made were much less stressful for me than any of my airplane jumps. It seems to me that Brian's exit was about normal until he started kicking his feet. I believe that if you check with people who have watched fatalities (of the "nothing out" variety), you will find that kicking is not uncommon somewhere between 1000 and 500 feet. If I had to point to anything that makes me believe he brainlocked, the kicking would be it. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I think that's pretty wild speculation myself. He did train for this jump, and I'm sure that the need to pull on time was made quite clear to him. Unless he were made to go out of an airplane and deliberately pull unstable, I don't see how it would matter. How long a delay did Mike and Brian take from El Cap, I wonder. No disagreement there. My friend Marc had a couple thousand skydives and he'd done at least 12 jumps the weekend before. He counted very fast and ended up tangled up, but he lived. I didn't even have to click the link, Sam. :) I stand by the position I took in that thread. I have two different friends, one dead (Hoover) and one no longer jumping (a close friend and colleague of Dr. Death) who had much the same experience as Scott. They were both current skydivers at the time. Anyone can have an off-heading opening, and Nick's list makes it clear that sometimes there's not much one can do about it. Having said I didn't need to read the thread, I did it anyway, and I concede the fact that there's probably no convenient way to deal with the issue of learning how to handle deployment short of a skydive. Of course, if one had a legal bridge in the neighborhood, then I suppose one could learn to handle deployment issues that way just as easily as from an airplane. Then again, I remember spending some time in a hanging harness. I believe the stated purpose was to train me to deal with malfunctions and to teach me to cutaway. So that's another option. Still, it's important to note that the idea of "deployment is the most dangerous part of the base jump" is irrelevant with respect to NRGB and thus, inapplicable to what happened to Brian. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Now that is a strawman - your original post (on which this thread is based) said that skydiving is an impediment to base jumping, not merely that it wasn't essential. There are people who seem to be edging to the conclusion that Brian would not be dead if he had had some airplane jumps prior to Bridge Day. I don't think it gets more essential than that. Nonetheless, your point is taken. The use of "essential" is not essential, however, so just roll it back to what I said originally. I have known people with many thousands of jumps (skydives) to brainlock. So why do you think that experience is the cure for brainlock? rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

This puts it all into context. I hadn't thought of it that way before. This makes practical what was, until now, academic for me. thanks, jason Except it isn't true, unless you're doing balloon jumps. Practicing off a diving board or even the side of a swimming pool is a whole lot closer to what it's like to make a base exit than is exiting from an airplane. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I hadn't intended to post more about this, but I've since seen that there were additional comments in the Incidents thread, in addition to the comments in this thread, and the following seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle: Brian Schubert did not die because he lacked canopy skills, and the context of all my comments in the incidents forum is Brian's death. In that context, setting up canopy skills as the issue is a strawman. On the other hand, I did not and do not dispute that good canopy skills are important--they're actually essential for most jumps--although I would say that for a water landing off NRGB during Bridge Day, even the most rudimentary canopy skills will do the job. But it is also possible to learn canopy skills without ever making a single skydive, so if you're going to make the case that skydiving experience is essential to successful basejumping, you're going to have to get around all the paragliders who fly their wings a lot better than many of you. Thank you again for teaching me what I needed to know to make my jumps off that bridge successful and well-nigh pain-free. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

From the LA Times: Schubert had no recent experience jumping and only a day of practice before Saturday, said Boenish, who was his friend and flew with him and Pelkey to West Virginia. "I would not have let this man jump," she said. "I told him I didn't think he was ready. He would have nothing to do with me after that." Pelkey said Schubert had trained hard, practicing jumps with a parachute into swimming pools and losing 80 pounds. But he had not jumped from a cliff or plane in practice, said Boenish. Jean alleges that he had only "one day of practice," but if Mike Pelkey is to be believed (and I, for one, believe him), Brian put a great deal more time and effort into being ready than a mere day--more like the entire year between BD 2005 (when he declined to jump) and BD 2006. Given that Pelkey jumped in 2005 without incident, even though he was no more current or experienced and arguably *less* trained than Brian was this year, the reasonable assumption would have been to expect no problems with Brian's jump. A lot of the posts I've read sound like the aftermath of the death of a child, but Brian Schubert was not a child nor was he an idiot. It is childishly arrogant to belittle his choice--and his death--by ascribing the responsibility and consequences of his choice to anyone but him. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

You have to turn your monitor sideways when you read my posts, Ray. You know that. :) Brian didn't die because he lacked experience or because he wasn't current. He died because he brainlocked. More to the point, neither currency nor experience prevents brainlock, nor does the lack thereof cause it. If that were the case, then a whole lot of dead skydivers and basejumpers would still be here, and a lot of skydivers and basejumpers who are still here would be dead. I agree with you completely, on both counts, but the point I'm most concerned with right now is the first one. There are people who seem to want to find a place to lay blame, and that is why, even though I no longer post here, I posted here. I used to think the internet was a great communication tool, but at the moment, it appears to me that it does nothing more than allow a voice to people who are either two fries short of a Happy Meal or who have all the brains that God promised a Big Mac and, in some cases, both. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Brian's death is not the appropriate occasion for the disgruntled to have their petty revenge against those they believe to have slighted them. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Indeed, you are correct. Some people seem to want nothing more than an opportunity to apportion blame. To them, I would say this: Last year, Brian made the decision not to jump. It was his decision. There wasn't anyone I know of who told him that he could not jump or should not jump--he decided not to jump. This year, Brian made the decision to jump, and he did jump, and he died. Jean is quoted as saying she told him not to, and maybe she did, but it wasn't her decision to make. It was his decision. What part of personal responsibility is eluding the lot of you? At NRG alone, there are plenty of examples of very experienced, very current base jumpers who were nothing more than very, very lucky--they ought to be dead, but for some inexplicable reason, they're not. For brand-new jumpers, it's a very simple process: launch, count, pitch. Speaking as one who had way less than 50 skydives and who was, iirc, three months from being current when I made my first jump at Bridge Day, you will never convince me that Brian is dead because he lacked experience or currency. You never know what's going on inside another person's head, which is why you cannot decide for someone else what they should do. Brian, as was his right, made a bad decision and he paid for it. That's not a good reason for the blamers among you to insist that others pay for it too. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

He liked my reply. :) As to usenet, we're posting in tandem, each for the entertainment of the other. We can't have sex all the time, y'know, but we're both too lazy (read "worn out") to get dressed, so we drag ourselves out of bed, call room service, post a bit and go back to bed. It has been a wonderful two weeks, and it just gets better every day. I think next Thursday will probably be right up there at the top of my list of "Worst Days of My Life." But we'll work it out, because we were made for each other. Scary thought, eh? If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Rl is on a new mate adventure. She found the "One"... for a while at least. So yea, my heart is broken. Go easy. AND He's an Aussie, but not me He's an Aussie, but we're in Dallas, Texas (actually Addison) until Thursday. We've been here since the 28th. After he goes back to Sydney, I'll try to get back here to explain myself and tell the story. I hadn't planned on being in this sort of relationship ever again. But I've met my match, that's for sure. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Happy birthday and many more, Chris. :) rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Well, I don't know about the list, sweetheart, but I do want to wish you a very happy birthday, with many more to come. Love you. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb