dterrick

...seriously, in reply to my previous post, my first 2 door dive-outs (rather than step dives) BOTH resulted in frontloops for whatever reason. Yes, the JM on the step was a bit 'concerned' as we were at IAD level @ 3k (though my CoP gave me to 2200 to pull) and reminded me that HNP's wee NOT the time to play acrobat. I wan't, I just hadn't 'mastered' the particular exit at that time but it was the exit the JM wanted to save a go-round (ALWAYS be nice to the DZO's fuel bill if you can) - we must ALWAYS present a reasonable and prudent example for our FJC students no matter how experienced or talented (or lucky) we are. The JM's that taught me drilled that into my head over and over again. Too, they taught me the FIRST rule of skydiving is "have fun but be safe". Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

"Ten seconds?!?! I count to 'eleven' because, well, eleven is 'longer' than ten" - N. Tufnell Still, take a C-182 hnp from 3k and dive into a front loop then box out and pull... THAT'S an eternity (kids, don't try this at home, these are trained Professionals at play) Dave (the Dangerous?) Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

...ever seen a mechanic driving a beater, or a sick doctor, or a lawyer with morals..or.... I gotta admit, a non-jumping rigger makes me wonder, but then again once I have my rigger's rating I STILL plan to have another rigger do my reserve.... something about fate and a plan 'B' Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

you'ze guys get PIE! fopr a BD? Daaaamn we're lucky in the Great White North. I hold out for cake Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

....no no NO... FIRST the wadding, THEN the powder, Th...BAAAAANGG. Waitaminnute, First the powder, THEN the wadding... ...some 'Looney Tune' named Sam? Dave ...eeeehhh, whassup Doc? Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

...please remember that 50% of our population has 'below average' intelligence. (LOL. Thankfully, intelligence plays 'no great part' in skydiving since it's pretty simple.... fall, PULL!, flare. Stupidity, OTOH, could (and has been) be LETHAL. On that thought, hold my beer for a minute and watch this Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

...not to bust you on your math or anything like that but 800 ft would be closer to 5 seconds.... unless you were in a stand . Sec #2.5... WTF?!? The next 2.5 sec better be automatic ... been there... My lowest 'intentional' pull is 2200 ft per my CoP. My raven opens in about 3-400 ft so I have 'lots' of time (and lots of backaches) before decision altitude. HOWEVER my last weekend out (0 deg f at altitude) I missed my handle at pull time(frozen hands, now own waterski gloves for the really cold ones). Pull #2 went fine but my alti said 'about' 1500 under canopy. Close enough for me, thanks... I LIKE a long canopy ride and if by magic our C-182 started pulling us a grand higher I'm one of the guys that would pull a grand higher. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

Welcome to how the 'other half' lives!! Here in Canada, the jumping season is 6-7 months long at best. Add to this the fact that most DZ's only have one C-182 - 2 if you're lucky. I've been at the sport for a 'season and a month' and I've made 121 jumps in total. To do this it's taken attending every open weekend (friday nights included) but one and several weekday 'after-work' trips (DZ is an hour away). You need to re-adjust your mindset to survive. I must admit from what I've read on DZ.com, most people who jump year-round DZ's feel it is their God given right to make 8-10 jumps per DAY out of a big plane doing freefly and big ways, etc. Trust me, it ain't like that when you have a 182. Moving on from the one plane element, small DZ's also make most if not all their money from students and tandems so guess who gets bumped? Yup... well, generally. Think like this....: - There is no such thing as an 'unimportant' jump. Make each one count, even if it is a solo ... you WILL get used to this when a video'd tandem leaves but one lonely seat in the sardine can. Oh ya, don't forget most Cessna only make it to 9 grand in 20 minutes so bring along 'inflight entertainment'. - Take the opportunity to practise skills you don't get on a big plane. Learn the 'tight 4 way' exits. Do some sit exits. Chase a tandem (with permission, of course). Hop n pop from the top and REALLY work on your canopy control skills. Take up CReW with a coach. Hell, go for 3,000 ft. hop'n pops just because. - Spend time on the ground helping your DZO out. Somebody videos the student's landings - why not volunteer. Practise the lost art of packing student gear (pro packing a Manta is quite a chenllenge) for credits. Smile at the students and get them talking positively about their first jump. Remember what it was like and help encourage them to return for their second jump. Make WDI's. Hang around with the rigger on staff and consider taking a course. Do whatever it takes to keep entertained and to help out. Anything you do to help make the off season on the DZ a positive experience will earn you good Karma with the DZO and your fellow jumpers. You may even find yourself being bumped less often, getting the sunset load, or a bit of extra altitude... who knows. One way or the other, I've always had the philosophy that spending a day at the DZ is just that - a rounded experience. It's all good if you make it good. Dave PS: In Manitoba, winter jumps happen occasionally. I've been grounded for three weeks and missed today's jumping opportunity for family comittments. Next time out, I'll be jumping form a 172 (!!!) with no jump door in full winter conditions. Chew on THAT for a bit and enjoy the loads you get

I enjoy many of the same things I did before but skydiving puts them all into a one big category ' stuff to be done while stuck on the planet' Seriously, my FJC was a a Giant step into the unknown from which I've never receovered (and hope not to). My first (and only cutaway) on jump #20 gave me an eerie feeling of the greater power we all tap into and are a part of. Skydiving seems to be a Religion inasmuch as it is not a bunch of "i's" but a very definite "we" at the dropzone. We can have the most diverse oppinions on everything else, but when it comes to the beauty of the sport we love.... well words need not be spoken. As I've progressed in the sport (just over a year, 120 jumps, 3 licenses and a provincial (state) medal) I've watched my whuffo friends (still have some) go from 'Dave's nuts' to "Dave's onto something he's good at ...I wouldn't have the courage ...". To them I can only say ... "I whuffo'd for 10 years alongside you guys. I jumped once just for the hell of it and it wasn't like falling - it was like freedom. I jumped again and you know the rest. Don't be afraid of the jump, be afraid of the NEED to jump once you're as addicted as I am. That addiction starts at about jump #2, by the way" Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

and JUST WAIT till you have only a C-182 to jump from at 9000. 8k is just the beginning. I bet any VRW from that alti would freak you out!! ... kinda makes it difficult to learn too - what with about 30 seconds of working time off the step at best. Oh ya, and a 4 way is THE big way Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

...not sure what an islander is but the position you describe sounds 'difficult' at the very least. There is no step? Can you do a dive exit? I do this from the door position - launch toward the REAR of the plane in a 'superman' pose with arms outstretched over your head and (VERY IMPORTANT) 'kick yourself in the ass' with your legs IMMEDIATELY on launch. Done right, it still only takes 5 seconds of so to stabilize into a boxman - your legs are already in position so all you really do is sweep your hands back once you've stabilized in the 'dive bomber'position'. Done wrong (legs out) you get a very deliberate and very sudden frontloop (legs catch the slide and push you over) - it's fun and it only takes a second or 2 - then punch a hard arch and PULL! Depending on what your instructors want to see you can do any or all of these 'trick exits'. One thing they MADE us do in progression was to do an unstable exit (as your "problem" is) and regain stability using a HARD arch. Remember that off the plane a 5 second delay only takes about 300 ft of altitude so even if you're launching at 3000 ft you have a 'second or 2' of spare before pull time. On student status you'll have bigger margins built in - but be sure to discuss this idea with your coaches before the y 'flp out' over your flips. HAVE FUN DAve Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

Chris: What exit style and plane? My Cessna 182 advice (and consider that I wasn;t good at "seeing the plane" until about jump #110 ...) Do a 'poised' exit rather than a hanging exit. "Hop" off the step and into a 'jumping jacks - legs spread' type position and make sure you 'snap' your head back. Another way to think of this is kinds like doing ' the wave' at a football match. Sounds strange but when I do this I drop STRAIGHT down on the slide. Since 'the slide' is about a 5 second ride and you will go gradually BTE if you have ANY arch at all, once you're flat, PULL! Dave T A humourous side note about my early poised exits learning to get this far was one of extremes. Either I went 'arms out legs in' (like you describe ...I had several backloops off the step and I'm now known for my gymnastic exit styles and can do them at will) or I 'looked down' & de-arched resulting in being immediately horizontal with my head into the wind. I've since been told that this is step #1 in doing headdown and that I'd be a natural. The only problem is this was during an RW skills camp Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

My first off-DZ landing happened on my A license Beer jump on Canada Day (July 1st national holiday). I and 5 others had just finished an intensive 3 day skills camp to get our RW endorsements. The weather was steenkin hot (+/- 100 on the ground and 110 in the Cessna until altitude) and humid - the kind of heat that really tests your mettle. Of course with heat comes a voracious thirst and we celebrated our national holiday EACH night with many beverages. (there's the setup for the Monday morning jump) So first load of Monday I go out on my A pending RW jump with a very experienced jumper/coach/tandemmaster for a 'fun' 2 way. I'm in the JM seat and will be flying the crotch so I'm not spotting and need to trust my 'senior' on the spot ... and the WDI got lost about halfway down. No biggie, it looked like a 'normal' day so we took 'normal jumprun'. I wasn't paying much attention to the windsock(s) as the weather had been consistent for 5 days and I'd only taken one serious crosswinder thus far. It was a bit turbulent on the way up and the plane was working hard. Indeed when we got to jumprun altitude we were on a dowind spot so Duncan the pilot pulled an aggressive 'U turn' over the bowl. IMMEDIATELY Garth called DOOR! and exit the plane. I was slow to my feet coming from JM seat (another 'first') and as I was steadying myself to exit, the plane REALLY started to buffet (can you say STALL boyz and girlz?... I knew you could - sometimes ignorsance IS bliss) "@#$@# what are you doing Duncan?" I thought - perhaps this is my 'A' Initiation? We left and did a great 2 way leaving 2 more on the plane who used the same pass. Apparently we were about a mile long and group 2 was even farther out. *** When I realized I wasn't going to make it back and didn't know the winds I tried to complete the ground refernce turn checks but I was already down to final altitude. I picked the farmer's field below me - what else to do? Apparently I was downwind. Ground speed was HUUUGE compared to my 7 cell F111's typical 'accuracy drop' behaviour in anything but no wind. I ALMOST pulled it off. Thankfully the field has nothing but 'salad greens' for plants and it was nice and soft. My initial heel prints were 4-5 inches deep into the soft soil and then tapered to NOTHING. Then the 'trench' began. total length of my 'swoop' was 20 paces - somewhere around 80 feet. I had dirt UNDER my skin tight jumpsuit and everywhere else. So began the para-hike to DZ, un-injured. The SAR team found me a mile away. The other pair were two miles away, all uninjured. My senior made it back, just, because he pulled high after breakoff. This "spot", by the way, jointly earned the pilot and my jump partner the 'Helen Keller Spotting Award' for the season. We all still look back and laugh. How easy would a go-around have been? Naaah. Dave T Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

Mr. Quade, I'm curious.... you mention 40% and I take that as "40% that voted" rather than "40% of the population". Is that a fair question? The shitty thing I find about MOST (if not all) democratic countries elections is that there appears to be an enormous amount of people who choose NOT to vote either out of ignorance to the importance of their voice or because they feel 'none of the above' (see threads on smear tactic campaigning) is the best option and choose to capitulate to the 'general will of the people'.... Certainly better than a dictatorship (listen up S.Hussein et al), it bothers me that if you take the aggregate of votes cast you would likely find those in power were voted in by a distinct 'non-majority' (VERY different from 'minority' in Formal Logic). As such, you might argue that "our" governments are run by 'special interest groups' rather than by 'the people' - and we all like to believe 'our' representatives were installed by 'the us'... yet it may not be that way. When our countries broke away from the British Empire lo those many score ago I bet our forefathers never thought we'd get to the point where apathy would actually 'rule'. Please tell me I'm wrong... Naah, I don't really care (that's a tongue in cheek for the uninitiated to my warped sense of humour). "I" haven't missed a vote since I've been elligible and I'd like to think most on this list have not either. Whatever the final tally in "your" countries' election, I hope each end every one of you can say 'yes, I voted my conscience and belief' whatever that belief may be. Without that belief, what IS democracy? Peace and Prosperity (...oh ya, and Blue Skies....) Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

..equally small point, Mr. Quade, you missed my twisted Monty Pythonesque addendum. Of COURSE I bloody know Pengiuns don't come from that Arctic. Lemmings, yes. Polar Bears, definately. Russian Nuclear submarines? Occasionally. But pengiuins... er, no. Very 'cool' website, though. (punny?) Dave. ...see what happens when you live in the Great White North? Your sense of humour gets twisted enough that not only do your jokes zing, but you also think that winter jumps are just the adult version of 'being a kid and jumping off your roof into a snowbank' Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

Zut alors! Vous n'avez pas visite le quartier francais a Saint Boniface?!? St Boniface, the french quarter of Winnipeg, is the largest french population in Canada outside of Quebec! We were the first province to declare 'official bilingualism' when a traffic ticket (circa 1980) was thrown out because it was not issued in both official languages and could not be tried in french. St. B is French. The North end (is/was) Jewish/Polish/ Ukranian/General East European. Downtown 'core area' is Native American/aboriginal. The rest is pretty white bread, but in a small city of 650,000 we're pretty well integrated. Our DZ at Gimli, 45 minutes from the North edge of the city, is the second largest congregation of Icelandic people in the WORLD. Kan du snukka Norsk? The neatest thing of all this is many celebrate their heritage (especially through Folklorama, the largest multicultural celebration in the world that takes place for 2 weeks in August and draws visitors from around the globe) but nobody fights about 'it' Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

...remember, we're of British ancestory just like you... but we share with the French and with good neighbors (albeit sometime a bit noisy) to the South and nobody but penguins to the North, why would we WANT to escape? (I know I know... "Penguins don't come from the Zoo they come from ther Antartic".... "BURMA!!") Dave T Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

John Galt fought back... but Atlas just Shrugged. great quote, great book, great philosophy. For those that missed the pun, I'm talking of the novels of Ayn Rand. Well worth the intellectual challenge if you can stand not being able to finish a book in less than a month ... and enjoy digesting 40-80 pages each day. Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

LoadHog! I wish I had such an opportunity to jump. This, my first full year of jumping (120 in the books) I've got into the habit of three things. First, I try to do a plain old solo jump with aerobatics and a funky exit to keep me in touch with non-RW flying on Saturday am. It's fun, it's going to lead into more frestyle

Burrrrrn ! (to quote Michael Kelso). Actually, I'm fascinated with where this thread has gone. Deep down underneath all this "flare" directive there are obviously several kajillion things going on in our brains that let us NOT biff (when all is well). I guess I'm just one of those guys that has a compulsion to take things apart to see how they work. Most of the time I can even put them back together again . Since we're into the winter layoff in Canada (but for a few hop n pops) Billvon do you have any suggested reading above and beyond the 'basic' books I've already read? I'm also interested in taking a rigger A course for the technical knowledge and to help my DZO out on the 'basics'. Dave "Hi, I'm Dave, and I've been jump-free for 16 days......" Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

...holding my breath or not I WANT ONE!! Sing it with me now... "Meet George Jetson... doo-deet-deet doo-de ..." ...and I bet we'd need special licenses, wind up with mid-air traffic jams and - worst of all - parachutists would be one-upped (hell, parachutes would likely become the 'air bags' of tomorrow... where would the fun be in that?) Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

...ya, me too. For a moment I wasn't sure WHAT had gone on. I've never been 'ambushed' like that before. In fact, I was flying AWAY from the DZ until I a) confirmed I was still 'alive' and under a 'good enough' canopy to proceed to b) feel my face and found my polycarbonate goggles had NOT shattered into my right eye (phyew!) c) ponder WTF ... hey waittaminute the DZ is THAT way. I'm quite sure I was facing the DZ when I pulled. Hmmmm. Abouuuuut-FACE! Forewarrrrd-FLY!! *** For those who care, the numbers I gave Wayne were a 1 second and 3 second opening at 120 and 150 mph. I believe the numbers were 1.6 and 6.2G 'average'. I have no illusion that these numbers are accurate (no ProTrack), but I'd had enough slammers under the Raven at 'normal' speed to know this one was the Tsunami of all openings. Subsequent jumps on various Sabres have felt VERY confortable compared to even a normal Raven ddeployment. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

Fair enough, the planet 'rises up' at us and HEIGHT perception is the key unless you need to touchdown at a certain point ("the cookie", like it really mattered under the circumstances). Maybe what I SHOULD have said was: ... if after you've punched yourself in the face during a brutal opening, and then have someone install sandpaper under one eyelid to the point of continual blinking and tearing, just seeing where to get back to is a challenge - never mind doing an accuracy approach for a hit'n'chug on the sunset load. On final, I tried keeping the affected eye closed as much as possible because it was distorting my overall VISION. With only one eye open I COULD NOT have binocular depth perception . That's the whole story and I'm stikkin tuit. PS kids, don't try this at home. Hell, adults, don't try this either. Skydivers, I'd bet you've already done something similar Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

Believe me I wouldn't have wished this opening on anyone. From somewhere 'above' normal terminal the Raven II 'Bit' me hard. I'd been in a sit and went to a stand. altimeter jumped from 6k to 4k almost immediately!! I cupped, then dumped at 2500 though I still felt I was going fastr than normal. In my mind I still don;t remember even having time to go back to a 'box' pose before the opening shock hit me. The snatch WAS the opening... there was no snivel . The recoil caused me to slam my pull hand and arm into my chest (bruised ribs) then sucker-punch myself in the face . My jaw and face were numb but I had the presence of mind to confirm I hadn't blown up my main. I hadn't, but it destroyed the slider (torn on one edge and all 4 grommets severely bent!!) A buddy of mine who speaks math did the calcs and figures an AVERAGE of 6 G's over a '1 second opening'. I understand why a Cobalt would be a good idea. I suspect the soft contact lens and the opening were subordinate to the fistfight I had with myeslf. I'm not really sure because in 10 years of contact wear I've never had a problem like this. Don't want another one either Dave PS: believe it or not I got my first cookie that jump despite all the badness. It was a hit'n'chug so I had Live Targets to aim for. I didn't so much touch down on the cookie as crash it. Ten yards of gravel grazing later... face down, they brought the beer TO me. Nobody had the video camera or you'd have seen this one on the FTP site. Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

...tell THAT to my helmet ... I read that onthe specs page of http://www.airliners.net/ as well. GREAT page for trivia - didn;t realize it made that much of a difference but I might trade some hip room for a few seconds under the strut other Dave PS: y'know what just KILLS me? We have a C-46 Curtiss C-46commando (dig into the page) just SITTING on the apron, minus one engine doing nothing on a very permanent basis. ...Cool 1:1 'kid's toy' as a lame duch, though. Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)