WGore

Yeh that was always my favorite slot as well, really pretty comfortable compared to some of the other seats. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

I agree Keith but I doubt it will happen. He hasn't finished getting it ready to sell yet, hasn't flown since October 07. It would be a great airplane for our new DZ in Springfield. I would sure like to fly it one more time for grins and giggles. A slow climber but a hell of lot nicer to sit in all day than a Cessna. You guys are cramped up but not the pilot. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

The Beaver Keith mentioned was the same way. I could hear it going down the runway from my house and I lived 2+ miles away. It wasn't very popular with some of the locals either, especially the lady who owned the bed & breakfast under the takeoff flight path. The Golden Knights had an Otter way back. When I was stationed at Ft. Knox we would request the Otter every week for the parachute club but they never gave it to us. We got the Beaver a couple times but being a leg post they weren't really to interested in supporting the club. Fortunately we had an FBO not too far away that rented the club an airplane for what was a pretty reasonable price at the time. We could go to 7500 for about $2.50 IIRC. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

It was "the" film when I saw it in early 1974. Wings would have been about 76 I would guess. What about "Proof". "like a bb into dogshit"...... I saw Masters in Dec. of '69. I always liked the idea of skydiving from the Ripcord TV show but when I saw the scene with all the oranges I knew I was going to do it. Two months later I got the chance and my life started down a very different path. Truman Sparks always reminded me of Norm Ross. Norm wann't spacey like Truman but every bit as laid back. Are you sure it was 69'? I could swear that some of the accuracy landings were from the nationals at Plattsburg which was June 70'. But that has been a long time ago and it has been a long time since I last saw the movie. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

I jumped a UT-15 for accuracy before I converted to a square and it was one of the finest accuracy canopies going. The next best for me was the French Pap. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

As with so many FARs it can be a catch 22 situation. If the aircraft isn't being used for aerobatics there is no requirement for emergency parachutes. This particular jet started out with standard emergency backpacks but I guess he figured out that if he really had to get out, it would be next to impossible. I don't know if the ejection chutes are 0 0 anyway so it might be that if they had to punch out at low level, which is where they would be doing aerobatics, they would work anyway. One L-39 pilot I talked to has the seats cold and uses standard rigs. His thinking was that if he needed to get out it wouldn't happen anyway because he would be on the deck and he was gonna die. He only had the chutes because they wouldn't let him in airshows without them. This line of thinking goes for most aerobatic airshow acts. If something goes that wrong at 200ft you just aren't going to be able to get out. As far as the rating on the chute when you pack it, that is all that you are hired to do. You might have a moral obligation to advise the pilot that his chute is not designed for the speed that he might be doing but that is all. In many cases I wouldn't have a clue what the chute was being used in. Yes there are a lot of interesting questions here but personally I don't want the FAA mandating us to be someone else's conscience. I will get a handle on the manuals before I take this on for sure. I don't want or need to have my butt on the line anymore than necessary. Although it really does come down to the A&P's ass that is signing it off. But I wouldn't hang him out to dry either. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

I've picked up some good info already. A senior rigger has been packing these and from what I understand it is pretty much like an NB8 or 9. The seat is not involved in the actual packing that is serviced by the A&P. The guys flying the the L-39s have the option of using standard Emergency rigs if they so desire but bailout is just that, open the canopy and climb out. If you keep the ejection seat active it has to be serviced every year with a new charge at what I heard was 10K. Of course if you can afford the jet as a toy then you can afford the amenities. And this guy can. I've been a master rigger long enough and worked in the industry enough to know when to pass on something that I don't understand. As far as supersonic ejections the L-39 is not a supersonic capable aircraft like the Mig. I have not looked at this setup yet but will before taking it on. From the PMs that I've gotten it doesn't sound like this is that complicated. As far as the FARs this is an experimental aircraft, not certificated aircraft and it is restricted where it can fly and not subjected to a lot of the regs certificated aircraft are. It doesn't even have to have an annual inspection signed off by an IA. An A&P can do the inspection and it is just called a condition inspection. The other thing to remember is one of the pilots of this aircraft IS an FAA Inspector and can't do anything even slightly shady for fear of losing his job. If anybody has had to deal with the Feds in the last couple years the biggest thing that you run into is these guys don't want to approve anything without a pile of engineering paperwork. It took us a year and a half to get a jump door on a 182 approved. This used to be a 337 with acceptable data, (another approval) and wham bam you had your door. This time we submitted the door off of another jump plane only 15 SNs different from ours with the paperwork from that plane. Then the saga began. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

You are correct the A&P actually is responsible but he wants a rigger to actually pack them. One of the guys flying this one is a Fed and a friend so I want it right. Does anybody have contact info for Jeff Wagner? I will probably get these in 6 months if I can get the info. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

Has anyone packed any of the ejection seat chutes for the L-39 Albatross? I had a request to do a couple but they had no instructions for them and I was already up to my ass in alligators. They are going to bring them back next time though and if anyone has the packing instructions I'd like to get a set if possible. Might also be a little stick time in it as well. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

I believe the drogue was static line deployed not manually deployed. I have a picture on my office wall showing Kittinger stepping out of the gondola and there is a line of some sort from the gondola to a pack on his butt below the parachute. While it was an extremely gutzy jump it doesn't do anything that I can think of for Skydiving in general. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

I use to always look forward to seeing Jim at the different meets. A gentleman and pioneer for sure. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

Howard, here is what you posted in 09 on the same incident. Premier howardwhite Send a Private MessagePM United States Jumps License In sport : 8000 : C 3896 : 44 years Mar 30, 2009, 11:56 AM Post #18 of 19 (803 views) Registered: May 9, 2002 Posts: 2419 Re: [WGore] Lake Erie B25 -- long [In reply to] Quote | Reply In Reply To IIRC the 3 guys thrown off were Bob Pierson, Paul Ritchie, and I believe Dave Ellis. Two outa three ain't bad. The third (according to the local paper) was Edward Schmitt. HW WGore Send a Private MessagePM Add to FriendsFriend Jumps License In sport : 4100 : D 3379 : 45 years Mar 30, 2009, 12:38 PM Post #19 of 19 (787 views) Registered: Feb 27, 2007 Posts: 172 Re: [howardwhite] Lake Erie B25 -- long [In reply to] Quote | Reply Lot of brain cells killed since then. But that does come back now that you mention it.I vaguely remember a picture from a paper of the 3 of them that somebody sent me while I was in AIT. I can't remember if they were in front of the B-25 or one of the guys car. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom! GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

I was in the Army at the time or would have been there as well. I talked to a friend that was around at the time and Dave Ellis was not the 4th, but I really don't know why the other 3 would have lied about it. They said that they waited for awhile to try and make another load and when the airplane didn't return in a reasonable time they headed back to Cincy. They heard about the screw up on the radio about the time they got to Columbus. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

Paul Ritchie, Ed Schmitt, Bob Pierson were 3 of the guys from the Cincinnati area. Bob has been gone for several years now from cancer. The 4th may have been Dave Ellis, also gone. I saw Paul and Ed last January at a reunion and both are doing well. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

RIP Mark you will be missed. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

Christmas day 66' -31 at 16,500. Xenia's 650HP Howard without a door. I think everybody had beginning stages of frostbite and my hands to this day don't like the cold. Just pulled the ripcord and let the lead ripcord stop hold it because I couldn't close my hand on it. The 20 degree temps on the ground felt like FL. After that I swore off of really high jumps in the winter. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

That's the one. Cowboy's Caravan went in there and took a lot of good good people. jon Jenkinsburg is in Butts county, Georgia. Cowboy's Caravan went down at West Wind SPC. How many of your friends did you lose that day? The name of that DZ changed a number of times as their afiliations changed. GCSPC, WestWind, Locust Grove, Jenkinsburg... Way too many. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

I have never tried Micks method but using more tension on the foot helps as well. If you have fabric on either side of the stiffener the heat might be a problem. The problem occurs when the needle starts up and lifts the work taking the loop up that the hook has to pick up. I have held the plastic down against the throat plate with my finger if not enough tension can be generated from the tension spring. I also use a 22 needle (which is what a 140 corresponds to). Silicone lube on the needle might help as well. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

+1, JerryBaumchen PS) One can always add a diaper to the Navy Conical. +2 but the 50s model Navy's had an anti glare coating that eventually caused a weakening of the fabric. I jumped one for years and had several rides on it before the fabric finally got so bad it tore on the old Thumb test. The only stress test of the day, but effective. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

Bill Smith was the Captain of that team. I don't remember the other guys names either. They took the silver that year (1972) and were the Champions in 1971 as the Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich Team. They were the first sponsored RW team since the Golden Knights were not a factor in RW back in those days.Curt Curtis' team took the Bronze so there were 2 California teams in 4-way in the top 3. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

Not sure about PISA making French parachutes but they supplied military parachutes for the paratroops. I jumped with some of the Rhodesian skydivers at the world meet in 72 and we hosted the team at our DZ in 73 before the first RW World Meet for training jumps. Unfortunately they weren't allowed to compete at Ft Bragg. One of the jumpers was a Lt Col.in the RLI and said that the Dakotas would fly around suspected terrorist areas till they drew fire. At that point they would unload and attack the perpetrators. When done helos would come in and take them back to their base. He said that he knew several troopers that made several combat jumps in a single day. Sounds like a tough way to make a living. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

My first Nationals was 70 in Plattsburg.Competed in 4 Way which was the first RW Nationals and Our team ended up 4th. I think the cost back then was $105 for room and board and all your jumps. Competed in 71 in accuracy and also ran. Went back in 72 in 4 Way RW and was on the winning team. Again in 73 and we ended up in 4th that year. Also jumped on a throw together 10 way team as well and we also ran. Had a real good time though. Last Nationals was 79 and I was picked up the week before because one guy dropped out, it was pretty ugly, but did have a lot of fun. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

This is hearsay but I heard that on some maintenance Cowboy didn't replace some clogged fuel filter because of cost and the aircraft was operating on the bypass system. Bring the water into the equation with a green pilot and serious problems. A good friend that was there and one of the first on the scene said that the airplane crashed in a field plenty big to set the Caravan down in. But it seemed that the pilot was trying to get back to the airport. The age old problem, ran out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time. Had he gone straight ahead the aircraft may have been a write off but some if not all may have survived. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

Good catch Chuck. With the pilot there were 17 on board and it never should have happened. Green pilot and bad maintenance and I lost 16 friends that day. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

I didn't realize it had been wrecked twice. The second time was the one that I remembered hearing about. D R Ellis relayed the story and as you can imagine it was a good one. Georges handle is Air Cav. GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!