PeterB

Well you can kinda run into a problem with the three man configuration. Say the wiseass has a different tracking style than you. Really fast track but not entirely flat. You on the other hand flat track like a skinny mofo with huge legs and arms. Not superfast horisontally but so flat wingsuit fliers are unable to dock. The third dude goes "oh WTF" and about 5 seconds onto the video the camera alternates wildly between the low dude and the high dude. It's sucky video but the story behind is kinda funny.

Neither does the "let's poke that bear with a pitchfork" approach. All parts need to show restraint. If this was merely a matter of some dudes on the wrong side of the watery border they'd been released by now. From what I read instead they'll be paraded on state controlled television after having been made pawns in a larger game of chess. I'm not picking sides here. If I was in the Iranian government you bet I'd do what I could to shore up my defenses. At the same time I wouldn't provoke an outsider into a war unless I was sure I could win it. So this poking is a bit of a gamble and could well turn out to be counter productive. I mean it's no secret that both the Brits (Falkland Islands) and the Americans (Iraq I and II, Afghanistan) are prepared to fight over things they consider in their interest. -- PeterB

Ah, those young ones probably haven't dated a serious skydiver yet. It's pretty much a fantasy world thinking that skydiving will get you chicks. You're much better off at a local bar and using the cash to buy bling and other dumb shit. If you want to get good, this sport will put a serious dent in your finances. It'll also grab a significant part of your time. Worse yet, the whuffo girlfriend/boyfriend will feel some kind of exclusion from not being able to relate to the DZ experience. there'll be some jealosy towards the people you spend Bonfire beer time with. And on and on. Any whuffo woman or man who's dated an active skydiver for more than just a few months in the off season will know it's more of a challenge than a benefit. At 50-100 jumps a year it's not too expensive or time consuming. At 400+ it begins to take a toll. That's my experience anyway. -- PeterB

So should you call 'em on it, right there in front of the tandem pax? I mean honestly it should be called out. It's doing the customer a disservice by lying about the risks. Sure might result in fewer tandems but it's the ethical alternative to lying to someone about the risks. No need to exaggerate the risks but it's downright immoral to lie or downplay them. I'm not sure I can keep my mouth shut next time I hear it. -- PeterB

From reading BillVon's post on the top of the page, it might very well be our last option. I agree it's using the big sledge as opposed to the small hammer but it seems that things just don't change unless solid measures are taken. I don't have an answer though.

Currently am learning how fast I can make enemies on teh inttraweb computerscreen. I've also learned that for the average DZ.com poster, his or her jumping skills are inversely proportional to the number of posts made. On a more serious note, there's tons of really good material written by truly knowledgeable people. I've just had to lurk for a few months to sort out the parrots from the content creators. I'll read anything some posters write or might have input on and skip the 'what color should my new rig have?' things. Think 'the 45 degree rule' experiments by Kallend and BillVon were the posts that made me consider DZ.com a serious supplement to real dz bonfire beer experience-sharing sessions. Lots of good stuff since. -- PeterB

When you invent Google II, remember skydiving. We could do with some free windtunnels and stuff. -- Peter

The key to reading fast is a good nonsense filter that does away with uninteresting personal feelings vaguely disguised as 'science'. It's so remarkable effective I only needed to read the first 300 words of this article yet I still got the full message. "These are umm diseases and stuff of the mind, you know" This is proven stuff". "These other 2000 words is my opinion but like umm wouldn't it be cool to tie it together? I mean it'd be funny in a way except it won't because well it's my opinion but yeah it would be a bit funny because the others would seems like they were insane LOL!!!11!!" I guess I was hoping for some ammo against the liberal pinkos secular progressives. Not entirely disappoinited as what I got was some ammo against the neo cons righteous protectorate (thanks Narcimund for that one). -- Peter

I have a few. The deal is pretty simple. Most of the ones you lost weren't really friends. More like people you liked to hang out with who you shared some common interest that naturally brought you together. Could be studies, work, nitting. The high maintenance relationships kind of got lost naturally too. A time intensive sport like skydiving acts as a clear filter in a way. Still got my real non skydiving friends but the not so deep connections have been replaced by other people who jump. Some times the way the filter works is pretty surprising. Had a pretty interesting discussion with a teammate about this. You can hang out with someone for every weekend for a year but if that someone stops jumping you kinda lose contact unless there's something in there other than skydiving. Core friends are core friends. I don't want to talk dismissively about people outside that cicrcle as they're important too and worthy of consideration and time. Skydiving can help sort out what group your 'friends and acquaintances' fall in but it isn't exclusively a skydive thing. -- Peter

Ah seems I was wrong. It's been done before by several people. Crap there goes that theory. Kind of tips the scale from SoTY-worthy to a 'Impressive. Most impressive. Obi-Wan has taught you well.'.

I still can't think of someone that got that far in that short amount of time, tunnel or not. Maybe that Russian camerawoman who films the skysurfer. Can you come up with some? Maybe Predstrup, he didn't have more than a few thousand jumps and 3-4 years when he became world champion the first time. He's male and was in a different discipline though. There's this guy with only 200 something jumps. 60 hours in tunnel. He got me beat on all things in the tunnel and on a good number of things in the air. Tunnel time or not he still impresses me.

She got the reward for being able to be on a team that won and for getting there in only three years. Practically unheard of in modern skydiving and definitely an achievement. The getting there in only three years thing separates her from say Babylon Freefly or three times champion Niels Predstrup. What also separates her from them is the fact that the former have won multiple times, given lots back to the community and generally have a very strong presence and influence outside their own teams. Doesn't count though. Yuropeean furriners.

You're not the only one. To those of you who missed the subtle-as-asledge-hammer-to-the-head point Narci made in his initial point: This Bill dude made up a new phrase and puts everyone he doesn't like in it. He then uses a series of negative definitions of this phrase. Narcimund did the same (although Righteous Protectorate is a lot... catchier). Any flaming or points directed towards Narcimund or his argument can be directly applied to Rileys. Still wondering if you have a pink pistol though. Wouldn't say a racing-green one that feels like a freight train running over the disillusioned broken down spirits of political hacks be more fun?

Ah, I knew Andy was undercover SAS. I'm no Brit either but my experience is that Britain is even worse than the Scandinavian countries wrt. Big Brotherism. In the Scandinavian countries the state seems content with just picking your pockets rather than your rights.

Dude, take your attitude somewhere else. Feel free to disagree but that disrespectful nonsense is just stupid. It's the attitude of a 100 jump wonder. My guess is the sport will find a way to eat humble pie. Happened to me. Still happens to me. In the US, yeah. Not where I jump. Higher jump requirement here as well as getting a formal certification from the national skydiving association that clear you to jump with others. And no, you can't get that cert by jumping with 100 jump wonders. Average mean distribution. There are a very small percentage who at 100 jump have good air skills. Even fewer who have that and a natural ability to teach. Even then they only have 100 jumps of actual skydiving experience. The distribution of averages suggests that there are as many sucky instructors @ 100 jumps as there are @ 1000. The difference is that @ 1000 the instructors has ten times more experience to make up for deficiencies. Apparently your deduction skills aren't up to par with your jumping skills. And by using earlier your example we were all Gods own instructors @ 100 jumps with shitloads of tunnel time and recommendations from all the other instructors. Make up your mind about a point. You're countering one of your former ones. Inadequate reading skills. There's a difference between ain't shit and doesn't mean shit. 1000 jumps is not that much. I got that in three years and I wasn't even pushing it. Dude your reading and deduction abilities need some serious work. You're making leaps of logic and inserting words that aren't there like the world is about to run out of 'em. 1000 jumps is not much experience. Skill can amongst other things be assessed relative to experience or relative to the world champions. I can do all 21 moves in the 2007 freefly money meet dive pool. I'm satisfied with my skills. When I saw the Babylon dudes 'live', I got a bit depressed about how far I still have to go. Now back on topic please? And conversely, when someone with ten times more experience than you politely makes a few points you disagree with, don't counter with strawmen and an attitude. Address the issues rather than construct strawmen that aren't there to begin with. No, I'll disregard most of what you said because you're missing the point, construct phantom arguments and come into it all with an attitude problem. Your last few paragraphs have merit and some good points. It's too bad they kind of get lost in the the rant above that is basically lots of logical fallacies based on intentionally misconstruing someone elses points. I've said what I wanted to say. Peace. -- Peter