ntacfreefly

errrr, not sure how you got that from my post. The dealers POINT was (which you've obviously missed) that he could offer better prices on most of their products than he could before.... Might not be true of all dealers, sure, but my point is that a lot of people are making a lot of ASSUMPTIONS about things that we obviously don't have all the details on. Me, I'm going to sit and see how this all pans out and then make a decision on whether or not I think it's a good idea. Blues, Ian To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

I spoke to a dealer this weekend, via new pricing structure he gets everything except for velo's and ka's cheaper. As for your Icarus comment, what makes you so sure they, or other manufacturers won't do the same thing? Blues, Ian To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Agreed. G&R rock. Katie and I are so happy that this has happened to them. Both very deserved and nice people. Blues, Ian To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

I guess I'm curious why consumers are questioning how PD deals with dealers. It should be transparent to them IMO. I'm probably missing some of the dealer picture here (I'm not one) so that probably explains why I don't know what all the fuss is about. As for the call for price thing - didn't dealers have to do that anyway unless they had stock on their shelves?? To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

As a consumer you should be dealing with your dealer. They should be dealing with PD for sales. When you buy a car do you call Toyota headquarters? Now granted I don't know the details of this whole thing but looking at your analogy I was just making an observation. Blues. To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Don't you actually have to ENTER the competition to do that? To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

It's true what they say - you're only as good as your last swoop To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Stu, Pretty much accurate. Here are my observations on how the flying together and turns went. Full flight. Same speed with the velocity being trimmed a teeny bit steeper so I had to use rears to stay up with you BUT that slowed me down so if you weren't on toggles to slow down more than my rears I had a hard time catching you. Didn't lose ground but couldn't make it up either. Turn altitude - identical. I was on level and in the power with you every time. Recovery arc - the JVX lost as much altitude but gained more forward drive during the recovery, so, for Stu and I to hit the gates at the same time I had to be close to the gate than him. Once plained out the JVX did not accelerate away from me, nor did I accelerate away from it. Both canopies covered about the same amount of distance and speed IMO. That's my impression as the 'follower' on TS. Edit: Grant, yeah I was having a hard time cause the little fucker kept balling up and being small when I was trying to catch him !!!

Far better way of explaining what you mean. Thanks

pretty good info for the most part Mark, except that sentence. That's bs. The velo doesn't spin any more or less than any of the others out there. In fact, every time I'd had linetwists it's flown straight and level. In fact if this: is true then it is MORE susceptible to spinning than the other canopies. Bar that point of contention, it's been an interesting read and I'm looking forward to hearing what Grant has to say. Blues, Ian To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Where'd that quote come from??? To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ok, I'll give you that - that was pretty damn funny.....even if it's true DOH! To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

While I don't doubt you had a problem with yours, that's a pretty BS statement considering the number of WORKING neptunes I see out there. Blues, Ian To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Agreed. It also depends on what the person defines as 'best', is it speed, distance, stopping power, stability, etc. People win under all sorts of wings, it's absolutely the pilot as there is no wing that simply blows the others away out there....yet

Your choice, but you can't say you'll be fine. You don't have enough time on either to even have a clue. Shit, after almost 10 years of skydiving I don't ever 'think I'll be fine' - you're just a fool who's fooling only themselves. Either way, I don't know you so go ahead and do your thing. To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

I was about to compare it to ever other yahoo I've watched pound themselves in under canopy saying the same thing - then, like you, I saw his canopy choice and figured it wouldn't be worth the time. If he makes it cool - strong genes, if not - oh well Darwin thinned the herd again. edit: Of course him 'teaching' someone to ride a 1000 with his 'experience' is like an aff graduate teaching an aff student how to fly a velocity. People's overestimation of themselves never ceases to amaze me. Ian To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Yeah yeah, I'll be at The Farm ruining my gear in the pond while you kids are ruining your gear in the salt water To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

OI! Speak to me this weekend at the DZ To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Shut the hell up and quit your pity party. Rich said you could use his gear. Don't make me kick your ass tomorrow PS: Rich, will a KA 107 fit in your container? To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

An intelligent response starts with accepting the others point of view, even if you don't agree with it, and then addressing the issues. Statements like "Hastala vista" or "Don't let the door hit you on the way out" shows, to me, a serious lack of maturity or ability to accept others view points even if you don't agree with them. Now before you go on a rampage about "well you don't accept my viewpoint" save yourself some time. I have no problem with you, or anyone else, feeling like the original poster should leave. What I think is juvenile is the way the sentiments were delivered. At least try and be civil, thoughtful and intelligent. It'll go a long way in getting others (who have any sort of intellectual ability) to at least consider your point of view. To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Is there where I say I"m rubber and you're glue? Certainly seems that way, of course while I don't post here much I certainly didn't expect much more of a response from you either. To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Is this where you fire your pistols in the air too? It was a pretty well thought out post, and if that's the best you can do for an intelligent response then maybe the original poster isn't as far off the mark as it would appear. edit: To the original poster. I will say this: Travel, have fun in other countries, as people have said you may actually prefer it there. I know that my background has given me an appreciation for the rest of the world that most americans don't have. In the end I left South Africa because I felt the USA would be able to provide a better future for myself and any offspring I may have. So far I've been right. I don't delude myself that it'll always be that way, but the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Good luck with whatever your choices are. To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Probably a blindman/wingover. I've seen him working on that a number of times this past year. Just a guess though To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Best.Response.Ever. Very, very true. Blues, Ian To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

Doesn't affect pressure but rather gives the pilot more leverage. IMO the effect on the recovery arc is minimal. Blues, Ian To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer