airdvr

For the record I am most definitely with the "buyer beware" crowd. The laissez-faire means that the neoclassical school of economic thought holds a pure or economically liberal market view: that the free market is best left to its own devices, and that it will dispense with inefficiencies in a more deliberate and quick manner than any legislating body could. The basic idea is that less government interference in private economic decisions such as pricing, production, consumption, and distribution of goods and services makes for a better, or more efficient, economy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire You seem to be awful quick to point out my perceived shortcomings, but you haven't answered my questions either. I've read many of your posts here and liked reading your viewpoint. We all have a take on things and we all have a right to state them here. Debate me on the issues...don't give me PA's or question my value system. You don't know me well enough to do that. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

My belief structure knows when I can change something and when I can't. Would I walk away from someone being mugged? Depends on if the mugger has a gun or a knife. I certainly wouldn't walk away and forget about it. The least I could do is call 911. But I'm not gonna get shot or knifed to save some poor sole I don't even know. And no one can say any different unless you're in the situation. It's amazing that I can post things on here that are contradictory and people start questioning my character, values, and morals. I don't agree with what SKyride is doing but I also know I really don't have anything to bitch about. It's not hurting my business and unless you're a DZO it's not hurting yours. If you google "tandem +new york" the first 2 sites that come up are The Ranch and Above the Pocono's. Those DZ's pay, let me repeat, pay google to have their sites come up. If I do the same search for South Carolina I get SKydive Long Island and Thrill Planet (aka Skyride). There are no less than 3 DZ's in SC. WHy doesn't their site come up? Because they haven't paid. My point is if they want to compete they most certainly can. And it's not all that expensive to do. I pay around $3 per click for my website. I find it incredible that people will bitch and moan about something but do little to fix it when the fix is simple. There's a dropzone in most every state. SR advertises in most every state. Step up to the plate and fight for the business if it's that important to you. Post your tandem prices on your website and give the poor suckers out there a chance to compare. If DZO's did that and the idiots still bought off of SR than I have no simpathy. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Please explain how skyride is helping fun jumpers. Please explain how skyride fills the "phanes" to a greater extent than the dzo would have. Shame on the dzo? More like shame on the makers of lead paint I agree with everything you say. But as a jumper and member of the USPA how is it hurting you? If you're not a DZO why does it bother you so much? Isn't this a DZO problem and their responsibility to cure? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=13&ID=390182&r=2&subCategoryID= Castle supplies the Caravans at Cleveland. Last summer I camped next to a hard working pilot, but I can't remember his name. Anyone know if this is him? I hope not. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

In all of these posts I'm uncertain how the USPA is hurting the general membership. I agree it may be a little weak on representing the general membership but I never met anyone who gave a rat's ass about who their RD was. Not saying it's ideal...few thinge are. Someone please explain how Skyride has a negative effect on the general membership...real examples, not philosophical ones like "we look bad in the eyes of the people SR abused". In the end I beleive the SR problem was a DZO problem, not one for the general membership. I just don't get it. We jump from far superior aircraft than 20 years ago. The equipment we use...there's just no comparison...the FAA pretty much let's us do our thing without much intervention...DZ's offer so much more now. What do you people want now? Would you really have wanted USPA to fight to the bitter end? Too many "what if's" in that scenario, including "what if your dues were $100 per year?" Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I think I most enjoyed the Vet She's hot!! Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Sade's awesome no doubt. Now, if you really want to step out of the box and chill try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh6lGI1bOkw&feature=related Ernie is probably one of the most underrated guitarists ever, but Jimi said Ernie was his inspiration. Mmmm...baby makin' music. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Anyone know who these folks are? http://www.xperiencedays.com/prodlist.asp?idcategory=3&curPage=2&strlocation=&sortField=description Zero Gravity Xperience - Full Private Flight Your very own Weightless Flight Various Locations $110,000.00 This what I want for Christmas Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I'm no Skryride fan, but what kind of logic is this? You want DZO's to enter into an agreement with SR, and then turn the customers that are sent their way by SR around to get out of the agreement they have with SR? Yeah, that's ethical. No, when the customer shows up pissed that they are getting ripped off. What is wrong with advising them of the right procedures. We get quite a few each month where i jump with these shitty rain checks. If skyride did everything ethical and right then there would be no problem. Well dammit...now they know the plan Prety certain SR has some decent attorneys who are paid to think of this stuff. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

That would assume they didn't get what they "thought" they were buying. CC companies aren't going to allow disputes simply because you found it somewhere cheaper. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I don't currently pay for television advertising because I don't think it's profitable. That doesn't mean I have a problem with television advertising, it's just not worth it to me. I would view an honest Skyride similarly...good for some people but not high on my list of things to spend money on. I'm confused. Does SR require DZO's to pay up front? I would think it would be more of a DZO gets paid when the tandem/video/whatever is completed. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

It's a nice thought...so is ending hunger and world peace. Unfortunately we don't get to decide what the customer is looking for. It's almost certain it would need to be marketed as a thrill ride and let the DZ handle trying to take them further. ANd I'm uncertain why making more $$$ for the DZO is a bad thing. WHy else would a DZO deal with a booking service? Seems to me that's the whole point. Would all the DZO's who got into this business to break even please raise their hands. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

That thought has crossed my mind on many occasions, I just don't have enough time left in my days to add it to my "To do" list. I think there is such a market, especially if the entrepeneur is willing to keep realistic profit goals and make their money with volume rather than swinging for the fences with every single tandem. Blues, Dave Maybe you could PM me with those numbers? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Not trying to turn the issue. Trying to find out if there's a viable market out there for someone to do the same type of thing Skyride does without all the dishonesty. There just might be some people who have the means to compete with Skyride. I don't think DZO's can put them out of business however, competition from an alternative site might put a whole in the money bucket for them. What they're doing isn't rocket science. If you know anything about internet marketing you don't even need 900 websites. You need 1 good one and the ability to pay enough to have it come up first in a search. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

It is that simple. That doesn't mean it'll happen, as skydivers are a fickle bunch, but it is that simple. ALL of the dishonesty? I still probably wouldn't. The last time I heard a quote from them, it wasn't worth my time. In order to make it worth my time and still make their current profit margins, they'd have to screw my customers, which isn't something I'd want to be party to. Blues, Dave OK. SO is it fair to say that your real problem is with them cutting into your profits? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Whatever coverage you decide on look really hard at the actual policy when you get it. Their are plenty of unscrupulous agents out there who will tell you what you want to hear just to get your business. Don't depend on the brochure or the website to tell you everything. There's alot of verbage out there that says something like "this is only a partial list of exclusions". I beleive every policy in the US has a "right to examine" period, usually 10 to 30 days. If you don't like what you see you can refuse the coverage and get your money back. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I agree. I didn't hear Huckabee but I've said for a long time that I'd be willing to pay $5 per gallon if someone would guarantee me that in XX number of years we'd be able to tell the Middle East and Venzuala to S&%k a d&%k. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

If every instructor refused to do Skyride affiliated work, dropzones would quit taking their certificates in a heartbeat and this problem would go away If only it was that simple. Sorry guys, the cat's out of the bag. I have a question: If there was an operation out there that did everything Skyride does with the exception of the dishonesty would you accept their certificates? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

If you're referring to the bucks USPA would have had to shell out to defned themselves I believe you're right. I've spent most of today reading all about the SKyride issue here. It still seems to me that someone could do the same thing, only do it alot better and without all the misleading claims. I think the DZO's could forma consortium to handle the details. The travel agents do it all over the place. C'mon people...beat 'em at their own game. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

So you're saying that increasing numbers of cars will offset increased gas mileage. OK. Now think really hard about what would happen to demand if mileage stayed at current levels and the number of cars still went up. Now compare the two scenarios. Still not seeing how any of this would reduce the price of gas. Not saying it's a bad thing, just don't think the increase in CAFE will reduce fule prices. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Removing a priviledge of a member due to the member not living up to the membership agreement is not undermining the business of the member. Its living to the letter and spirit of the agreement with that member. He's not going to see it the way it is written. Like he said - he's willing to give up his credibility, integrity and morality to keep the closed sign from his door. Ignoring the fact that he could just get better marketing practices and deal with better clients. Some may see it that way, some may not. I know one thing for sure, just from the tone of your posts...you probably don't own a business or have the slightest idea of what it takes to survive in business. If you want to attack my integrity, morals, and character that's your call. I like how you ignored my question about what it was the customer didn't get. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Removing a priviledge of a member due to the member not living up to the membership agreement is not undermining the business of the member. Its living to the letter and spirit of the agreement with that member. No, but putting something on your website which says don't do business with this operation is. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Well certainly I hope not. I would never ride as a tandem that uses a pilot chute. And I'll be damned if I pay a fee for something that I don't get. So - I guess in answer toyour question, Yes, they did NOT get what they paid for. Explain please. I don't understand what they didn't get. Marketing does not have anything to do with the process of doing the business. Huh?? Marketing has everything to do with the process of doing the business. Example: I'm in the insurance business but what I really do is market the fact that I'm in the insurance business. It's business 101. My profession is one of the most regulated in the US. There are very specific rules as to what I can and can't do. And it isn't the Nat'l Association of Insurance Professionals that makes me do this. It's the laws of the State of Ohio and the federal gov't, or whatever state I do business in. If Skyride is breaking the law they'll be dealt with accordingly, and not by the USPA. I noticed that you avoided answering my question about employing or doing business with employers of illegal aliens. I didn't avoid it. I thought it was rhetorical. I wouldn't employ illegal aliens. As to whether I would do business with one that does...well...that's really their problem and they'll have to deal with it. I know, I know...I'm an enabler. I'd rather they put that on my tombstone than the "Closed" sign on my business. The USPA is a third party insurance holder that is not responsible for businesses and their success or failure, and shouldn't be. However USPA should use at least a good faith effort (Which they tried at first) to distance itself from those that can, by their documented actions, harm the reputation of the USPA by being even remotely affiliated with such an entity. Your statment is contradictory. Either they should be helping with businesses or they shouldn't. Don't you see? They tried to undermine a business and they were about to get spanked for it. Rightly so. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

That depends . . . if you can do it in good conscience, I guess that might be OK to you. But look at it this way - as a business owner - do you employ illegal aliens or do you deal with those that do? If so - then that tells us A LOT about your ethical standards. If NOT, then perhaps you will rethink your original statement. At what cost of your integrity does it make it OK? Did they expect something that I didn't deliver? They paid for a tandem ride and that's what they got. They paid for a video and that's what they got. If they didn't get what they paid for that would be a problem. Certainly you're not so naive as to think that marketing and advertising is 100% truthful. It wouldn't take me long to find a whole bunch of examples where that wasn't the case. It still gets back to who can do a better job of it and why isn't the USPA jumping into the fray with it's own marketing plan. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

If they're lying than the states AG needs to get involved. In the meantime there's nothing stopping us from doing it better than they do is there? It's about competition. Group member DZO's had found a way to hang on to their turf through the membership requirement. SR fired a shot across their bows and they don't like it. USPA did a piss poor job of marketing for the DZO's. I can remember the 1-800- SKYDIVE program a few years back. But they left it to the individual DZO's to do the marketing. I wouldn't be surprised in the future if they find a way to lure Member DZO's away from USPA and to their newly formed (Insert some official sounding skydiving terminology here) Organization. After all, they'll do the marketing for the DZO. Drop Zone's would be like having a franchise. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne