pms07

Yeah, that's some nice flying and gives me lots of ideas for wingsuit flying. Thanks Jarno. Pat

I jumped one a few times that Terry Sorsby ran out of Pueblo Colorado years ago. Climbed slow, retractable gear, more complex to operate and expensive to maintain than a 182, 205 or 206,, no step, etc. Not the ideal choice...

Just a thought; maybe the proposal in the hands of the USPA for consideration needs wider distribution so those interested can consider and comment. Or maybe even attend the Board of Directors meeting to advocate.

I think the basic question is; what is it you would like the USPA to accomplish, if anything, in regard to wingsuits? Once we understand that goal, then a plan for how to get there may become more apparent. Vague notions like "make wingsuiting more safe" probably need refinement. What specific problems would the USPA be addressing? Would it be jumping without donning your legstraps? Or is that too many inexperienced (or experienced) jumpers are getting in trouble with wingsuits because of inadequate training? Are the current instructors (pick the title you like; experienced wingsuit flyer, coach, advanced coach, or whatever...) not up to the task? Or is that too many start wingsuiting without an instructor and get hurt or dead? Or is that there is insufficient knowledge readily available on how to fly a wingsuit? Or is that the standards (assuming there any...) are too lax, ill defined or not enforced. Once you define more specific the objectives, then I think you can make decisions about how to get there. And I think at the end of the day, arguing about a rating and whether it's a wingsuit instructor, or coach, or whatever, is really just semantics. Maybe not worth arguing about... Personally, I've worked in the USPA instructoral system for about 30 years and am a USPA supporter generally. I'm not enthusiastic about USPA implementing a wingsuit "instructor" rating at this point however, at least not with the information I have. Does anyone have the proposals being considered and can send to those interested?

If you aren't going faster in a track then when you are stable face to earth, then you probably need to work on your tracking skills. Just saying...

Yes, I recognize it in spite of some apparent Photochop. I have lots of jumps from this particular Otter (UV-18B in Air Force "speak"), belongs to the Air Force Academy as others have speculated, the numbers on the instrument panel are part on the aircraft's N number and it's Air Force call sign is Congo 65. The photochop'd jumper is also wearing Air Force Academy gear. The stopwatch is, or used to be, for timing WDIs (that might need explaining for some that haven't been around real long...). The black panel has red and green lights for controlling exits, a toggle switch for relaying spotting corrections to the pilot, and some other junk for jumpmaster comms with pilots and PA. And the DZ photo is used just as you indicate.

I remember freepack reliability as less than optimal, including some without the benefit of the strap, some with strap. I seem to recall seeing a significant number of mals and scary openings but maybe we were doing it wrong. Anyway, I had 3 or 4 cutaways before I gave up and went back to a bag and line stows. Lots to be said for a correctly sequenced deployment and I believe that's why you don't see much freepacking anymore, at least for events that involve typical terminal opening speeds.

Thanks for the flashback...but I'm sitting here on the group W bench thinking there aren't enough people around that probably remember Arlo Guthrie counter-culture...much less Timothy Leary...to fully appreciate the reference. Still, made lots more sense than Slyde's recent contributions to this forum...

Dude, you need a new dictionary... Maybe get back to me once you've actually flown a wingsuit, then maybe we can discuss your flight and whether you flew well. Meanwhile, I see lots of people flying wingsuits, first flight courses on wingsuits being taught at many DZs, and some incredible flying being done at various wingsuit events. I'm done here...

reply] I jumped in the early 70's in Missoula. I quit for a long while in about 76 or so. I always thought that Great Falls would be a good place for a jump club. This is the first I've heard that someone tried to start a club there....I didn't know that anyone jumped at Ft. Benton either..... Yeah, Rick Carter started the Great Falls club in 1976 or 77 and trained students at the air force base during the week. Used a 182 leased from Roger Fultz and jumped at the Ft Benton Airport. We had an annual meet and brought in a Cessna from Helena and Missoula a couple times...even had a twin beech one year. Operated until late 1980 or early 81 (have to check my logbooks) but shut down after most the other experienced jumpers moved on. I sold most the student gear to Terry Scott, trained students at home in Great Falls and jumped and put out the students at Helena until I moved to Colorado in November 81.

Did you ever know Mark Wright? He was from Helena and jumped there occaisionally during the 70's. He's also a smoke jumper. Mark mostly jumped in Missoula. Probably but I don't recall a face to go with the name. I jumped with most the Missoula folks at one place or another when I was in Montana, 78-81. Made it to Missoula a couple of times also and they came up to Great Falls for our meet when I and friends ran the club at the Fort Benton airport.

I remember a couple of these guys. In addition to sponsoring and jumping on the team, Jerry Myers ran the Altitude Shop and made the Top Secret, Classiflyer, Corsair, and a few other rigs. Terry Scott ran the DZ in Helena Montana when I jumped there 1979-81, and I think he still lives in that area.

Mark, I guess I'm done here but not before adding that if you plan to address your membership issues further with the USPA, recommend you change your tactics and tone asap. And don't expect much support from other members if you continue the rant. Additionally, the continued personal attack against RO is "unbecoming" and, knowing him, probably unwarranted... pms

Mark, Not sure I understand your complaint yet, in part because you seem to add lots of hyperbole and angry rant with many communications. What I do know however is that insults, taunting, arcane challenges, flaming e-mails and acting infantile is not a good way to get anything accomplished in the real world. Personally, I don't mind background checks and have gone through many in my profession. Not sure the purpose in this case so am interested in more detail however. I'm also interested to hear more detail about your USPA expulsion because I'm not convinced acting obnoxious should be grounds for USPA disciplinary action. In fact, that could describe the average weekend at many drop zones... Finally, don't expect to make many friends participating in lawsuits against the skydiving industry... Pat

Damn Matt, you really made my day! In spite of my marginal flocking skills I am in a couple of your photos. Thanks! Pat

You have got to be kidding. 370 lbs? Add maybe 50-60 lbs at least for appropriate sized gear and clothing? TK and Tom came up with words like stupid and dangerous and that seems kind...

That's Ed Christy farthest out on the wing in the Andy Keech Skies Call 2 photo. Don't know where either of them are anymore; last I saw Ed he was in New Mexico and Andy was around the D.C. area. It's been years however...

Sounds like Octamom . Damn it Jan, I just spit some good napa cabernet on the monitor thinking about the "beaver exit octamom" deal. Maybe I just need to need to be more careful about "exiting the beaver" comments...

ParaGear has fairly specific international shipping charges information here: http://www.paragear.com/templates/order_info.asp#International%20Orders Did you read that and were the charges in line with their policy on international orders? Just curious because I've done business with ParaGear on and off since 1974 without a problem...even when I lived in Europe.

You might be correct on Haden ownership as the real business end of the drop zone was not something I would know much about. At the time there was a fairly sizeable group that moved from one DZ to another, dependent on where there was a larger or multiple aircraft. Baldwin was a popular place on Wednesday nights during the summer (circa 77-78) because the Beaver would take 8 to altitude, assuming you weren't in a hurry. Yeah, 8-way exits are fun from the Beaver...

I jumped the Beaver at Baldwin back in the mid-late 70s when Iverson ran the DZ and I lived in northern Wisconsin. Not sure it's the same plane in the photo however as I recall he bought more than one. Anyway, I jumped from the Beaver in the photo while back home on leave, about 1984 or 85 I think. I have a photo of my Dad and I (he was going for an observer ride) as we boarded for a jump that shows it's NI7391. Thanks for the memory!

I think you just reinforced my point about correct harness fit and wear...

It might be okay for you, but not me. Either the rig in the photo does not fit correctly or the legstraps are not tightened down properly...and when sitflying it becomes very apparent. If your rig floating off your back that far doesn't concern you, you might want to reconsider... Edited to add: I see lots of G4s that fit the owner just fine. I'm not so sure that what you point out is actually a "G4 problem"...

Two of the biggest warning signs to me are jumpers that develop one of either two attitudes; 1. too cool to bounce; example "I have xxx jumps/mad skilz and would never do anything as stupid/we'll be fine as..." (insert scenario from recent injury/fatality, frequently with a small high performance canopy...but wingsuit fits easily...) 2. follow the herd; example "the previous load/group landed fine with winds gusting to 28 mph/thunderstorm building/heavy clouds below on jumprun so I should be fine too..." I've found that a certain level of parnaoia is probably called for when in danger (read skydiving...).

Yeah, I think if you go try the wingsuit pull you will find it is not more intuitive. It is, in fact, more difficult for many very experienced jumpers. At least that's what I've seen on a number of people training to start on a wingsuit. For sure less stability in the pitch axis and, as others have observed, easy to get head low. A head low body position also seems very uncomfortable for many on student status and easily leads to major instabillity.