chuckbrown

I just got Kirk's Puerto Rico CRW Boogie 2004 DVD in the mail & watched it last night. I'd already forgotten how beautiful PR is & how much fun those jumps were. Thanks Kirk & Lyn. And thanks to everyone who was there. Great CRW with a great group of people --with special mention to the Chickenheaded free flyer (I'm still laughing at that one Kevin). I just wish Lyn had got a video of Mike Lewis docking on the topskin of my canopy & flying with his feet in my bridle. Unbelievable. Thanks for a great time Mike.

Mike, first off I'm truly sorry for your friend. My point was in response to the incident report which indicates a hard low turn at 50 feet. Chuck.

My point is that a hard toggle turn at 50 feet is the wrong move no matter what wingloading. If you absolutely, positively have to turn at that altitude it's better to do a flat turn so the canopy doesn't dive.

A hard turn at 50 feet can seriously hurt you no matter what the wingloading. I think wingloading would be much more of an issue here if the jumper did not have the available out & was injured because she couldn't put her canopy in a tight off DZ landing area.

Scott makes some excellent points in general. But with respect to this specific incident the following was written by the injured jumper's CRW instructor & bears reading for its educational value as well: From the CRW Dog list: Just to clear up a few misconceptions of what happened to ***** before all the Monday morning quarter backs are sending out advice on something they did not have all the facts on. ***** was on her 6th jump of the day on Saturday - all on a 126. When we are teaching new students (CRW or not) we tell them once they are below 500 feet they should be on approach - preferable into the wind. They should have found the biggest clearing possible and preferably the airport landing area. On that particular jump ***** and one of her friends decided to make a stack when the main group broke off at 3,500 feet. Unfortunately while horsing around they turned themselves too far upwind and by the time they broke off at 1,800 feet and were a mile up wind of the airport. Not wanting to land in a full square mile cow pasture with no obstacles but on the airport property they continued down wind hoping to make it over the airport property line fence. Her friend started a slow turn at 100 - 150 feet to land crosswind. **** thought she could do the same as her friend. It was obvious she could not. The first cause of this accident was the fact that two low time jumpers were horsing around after the main skydive was done. All the other students followed the two CRW instructors back to the DZ and go to high five after a successful CRW jump. The second cause of the accident was not paying attention to where you are relative to the DZ. All 10 other CRW jumpers on the load all landed in the designated DZ directly in front of the hanger. Had they paid attention that everyone else had turned downwind to head back to the drop zone this accident would not have happened. The third cause of the accident was to be flying down wind below 200 - 500 feet prior to landing. There was a 640 acre field (one square mile) occupied by 6 cows with no trees directly in front of the both of them. Not wanting to climb a barbed wire fence they continued back to the airport property. Seeing that they were both going to land out there were two 4 wheelers already heading to pick them up. In fact one of the quads was 15 feet from final impact and watched the whole incident. Even if she would have choose to ride in the down wind landing and did a PLF injuries would have been prevented. And finally the fourth cause of the accident was to try to turn into the wind (using a hard steering toggle turn) at 50 feet - just after crossing over the property fence line. Her body hit the ground after the canopy it was such a violent turn. This accident did not occur because of abilities nor because of wing loading. It occurred because of bad judgment. **** had 5 stand up landings under the 126 before this accident - one of which was a mile and a half from the DZ when her and ***** landed off. One that jump they chose a huge clearing and both landed without incident. Maybe because ***** and ***** had to walk a mile through the swamp distorted her judgment 3 jumps later - only she knows. Yes she was 1.27 wing loaded. Her ability warranted that and she demonstrated that ability 5 times prior. The winds were 10 - 12 knots which are perfect landing conditions for these lightnings. Now I do invite all the Monday morning quarter backs to throw in their two cents worth. I would suggest leaving out wing loading as a cause and focus on DZ awareness, landing patterns, final approaches, and flaring techniques. I will take some of the responsibility in this incident in the fact that we should have stressed to land into the wind and stress no more turns under 200 -500 feet. Normally when a skydiver has more than 100 total jumps I assume that they already know that. I will also take some of the responsibility in not stressing the importance of DZ awareness and to not be horsing around with other low time CRW jumpers under the planned break off point. The rest of the responsibility needs to fall onto ****** herself for not performing what she learned in her first AFF class. End of post. I would like to add my prayers for a speedy recovery. Edited to add: While this jumper's name was in the original post, I deleted it after reading Nullified's reposting of Scott Miller's e-mail. It's my understanding that Nullified and the injured jumper were friends & jumped together. Since he refrained from using her name, I have deleted it as well out of respect for his feelings. Hope she recovers quickly.

I can't comment on the flight characteristics of the Spectre, my experience is pretty much limited to highly loaded Triathlons & Lightnings. With light winds, you're better off doing flat S turns to slow your forward ground speed & lose the altitude. I've been to T-ville & the outs pretty much suck. You should definitely spend some jumps focusing on accuracy & being able to put your canopy anywhere you want to.

Good job mofo. You definitely had some lousy choices & made the right decision. My only comment would be to have not even thought about making the DZ. I would have been on that field like a fly on stink immediately. Learn your canopy's stall point & practice sinking it with deep brakes. If you're still overshooting try doing flat turns (turning while in brakes); you'll lose the foward speed without the rapid loss of altitude. If I even remotely think I might land off, I start looking for a out immediately. I think one of my most frightening jumps was landing out at night (night CRW). I have NO problem with walking back to a DZ. Better that than making the wrong decision and riding in an ambulance.

I bet you pull low & do hook turns to land, too.

The helos I've jumped stopped & hovered. Other than the noise of the rotor, it's pretty much the same as a balloon jump. Definitely don't jump off; just let yourself fall. Personally, I like the Nestea plunge watching the helo on my back. Edited to make you think I know how to speall.

We thought you had to go shoot video of the ten thousand tandems that showed up. Looking forward to next year. I love Puerto Rico!!!

I was there with the CRW dogs and absolutely fell in love with Puerto Rico!! Beautiful island, friendly people and incredibly gorgeous women. Flying my canopy over the Caribbean was awesome. I'm already planning for next year.

7 for 7

I don't jump with an AAD, but can appreciate the benefits they provide. The mandatory use of an AAD would upset me though. As for hookknives, I've always carried one for CRW as a rule, but didn't carry one on RW jumps until I saw somebody die when his cut-away main's bridle tangled around his legs and deployed reserve; a hookknife would have drastically increased his chance to clear the entanglement by cutting the bridle away from the rest of the main. An old rigger once asked "what are you going to do if you get a line-over on a reserve and can't clear it? with a hookknive you can cut the brake lines and land with risers" A hookknife can save your life, even if you're not doing CRW.

There used to be a 3 jump per day max for students; don't know if that's still the case. I did my AFF over 2 weekends (no repeats).

2 stage flares are generally required with zp canopies and not f111s that students jump with. the first stage slows the descent rate and puts the canopy in more horizontal flight while the second stage stalls the wing (ideally with your feet on or near the ground). most f111s require a single full flare. If you do a 2 stage with an f111 you're not going to have sufficient energy left to have an acceptable flare. my .02.

I broke my foot off (yes, it was only held on by skin & muscle) 2.5 years ago. While not as serious as your injury, it nevertheless SUCKED dealing with ambulances, surgery, hospitals, rehab., etc. I have 2 screws in the fibula (which was broken clean through) and 6 pins and a titanium plate in the tibia (which was shattered). Quitting skydiving was a very real possibility and that thought was extremely depressing. I wanted very much to jump again, but by the same token, I didn't want to spend the rest of my life as a cripple, which is a real possibility if I reinjure that ankle. I too was very scared on my first jump back (and several more after that). While in rehab I made a promise to myself that I would not jump until I was able to handle the possible off DZ landings that I might encounter. That meant being able to run across rough ground at night, as well as do PLFs. After I convinced myself that I could handle any potential off DZ landing I jumped again. I made sure that I was prepared to walk away from skydiving if I couldn't meet my physical training objectives. My only advice would be to be honest with yourself in terms of whether you can physically handle the possible landing scenarios. The fear will be there no matter when you come back (so there's no rush). BTW, my first jump after my injury was 7 months to the day.

My .02. Alcohol is more physically destructive than marijuana, but marijuana is not cabbage; it can be abused with unfortunate consequences. Having said that jumping or flying while under the influence is extremely poor judgment. The beer light (or bud light) is never more than a few hours away. You can wait.

This is what happens when we can't jump. We turn on each other. Discussions would never get this heated at a DZ or Boogie. That's what makes skydivers great people; all different types joined by our love of the air. My heart goes out to the families of the 500 & good luck to everyone else who's serving their country. Come home safe.

Jump all year 'round. Did a CRW jump from 15,000 last week. It was a balmy 6 degrees at altitude. Lots of layers and latex as a first layer glove. Gotta admit it though, I'm looking forward to the Puerto Rico boogie.

Right on Bubbles.

I have an Infinity & love it. Especially the extra wide leg straps (need to specify); VERY comfortable under canopy.

Welcome to the Dark Side (sort of). Wendy, I wonder if some of the dates for the beginner camps should get posted here. Might reach more of an audience.

There's no special statement per se. It's simply a statement that you're in good health and have no medical conditions which would affect your ability to safely engage in parachuting. It's a liability issue.

I've always believed that unless a reporter has proven himself to be trustworthy, don't trust them. If you don't know anybody who can verify that the reporter can be believed when he says he won't publish sensitive information, don't give him access to the info. There are many good reporters, but most are just crack whores who will sell their mother for a fix.

Fear is mother nature's way of telling you to pay attention. My experience is that skydiving is just different degrees of fear; the longer the layoff from jumping the greater the degree of anxiety. I'm only really worried about a jump when I'm not worried about the jump -- that's my way of saying pay attention to what you're doing (the Alligator demands respect). Having said that, I think if you look at the incident reports, the overwhelming majority of deaths/injuries are the result of pilot error; people today are getting hurt with fully open canopies above their heads. This means that skydiving is either as safe or as dangerous as you want it to be. Pay attention to the safety fundamentals and you can jump for decades. Disregard them and you increase your chances of serious harm. The BSRs are there for a reason; so that we all can learn from the mistakes of others. BTW, I know exactly how you feel. I had back-to-back reserve rides before I even got my A license (jumps 18 & 19). I spent about 100-150 jumps with first jump fear, but I knew that skydiving was a mental game and one that I refused to lose.