chuckbrown

it can be done with these canopies but it isn't pretty. i would only do it if you already know what you're doing. out in richmond this year 3 of the dawgs did a jump with 4 "unnamed prototype" high performance canopies (if I remember correctly they were 85 or 89 square feet & loaded to 1.9) the plan was for the 3 lightnings to form a stack onto which the 4 pocket rockets would dock. we formed the 7 stack, but I'm glad I was on top (no. 2). these guys would come screaming into the formation and pound their canopies around the bottom jumper. the first one docked rough but successfully. the later jumpers would hit and go spinning out into their lines before trying it again. there was even a nice wrap which fortunately was cleared without a cut away. everybody eventually got in, but what a show. definitely a jump i'll always remember. btw, these guys were all very good flyers (way to go SteveO). having said that it can be done, i wouldn't "learn" CRW on these kinds of canopies. they are way to unforgiving of a mistake. A good CRW pilot can do CRW with any canopy, but a good CRW pilot also knows what not to do. When learning CRW, unless you're with a veteran CRW jumper, you can easily do something that will result in bad times. The Dark Side is a beautiful place. find a canopy that will help you enjoy it's beauty.

My buddy in the 135 didn't have any problems. He said it was just like coming out of a downplane, only a little faster. I definitely think relative canopy sizes matter also. We did the same thing with a 135 piloting, another 135 in the middle and me in the 175 on the bottom. I was upside down for a second or two and then went to a shallow angle (more like a steep downplane). i was dropped solo and it was the same as a downplane (which it basically was).

We did a drag plane with 3 Triathon Hybrids. a 175 piloting, a 160 in the middle and a 135 on the bottom. the 135 went completely vertical upsidedown. we then flew the formation around before we dropped the 135. the 135 swung completely out of the formation with no line slack at all. we then flew the bi-plane down to 135 and he docked again. You can also turn it into a 3 way downplane by turning the dragplane with a sharp toggle turn. Fun, but loads of tension.

You should have gone over to the CRW dog tent at Richmond. We would have hooked you up with a Lightning and put you in a diamond (they are a girl's best friend -- just ask wendy, annie & nina:)

The "woggles" is from the various canopies flying at different speeds. Wendy's right the faster canopy needs to slow down (or the slower canopy needs to speed up -- front risers). If you do nothing it will get worse.

as far as the tension on a downplane, it's hard, but if you can hold on it will smooth out; although some are just way too hard, no matter how strong you are. I've held some for 3,000 feet and others for only a couple of hundred (go figure). an easier way to do a downplane is from a regular plane without going into a side by side. the top jumper gets out of the risers while the botton jumper pulls him STRAIGHT down (instead of to the side); the top jumper should stop coming down when his hands reach the bottom jumpers three rings. the top jumper then spreads his legs and waits for the bottom jumper to kick up his legs to the top. the top jumper holds the bottom's legs loosely enough so the bottom jumper can turn face to earth. after he turns face to earth, the bottom jumper splits his canopy by pulling the toggle on the side he turned to, i.e., roll to the left, pull the left toggle. After the bottom jumper has turned face to earth the top jumper increases his grip,while the bottom jumper increases his grip once the canopies are split. PRESTO, you've gone from a bi-plane straight into a downplane. Try it with a three or four stack and you've got a dragplane where the bottom guy is completely upside down. TOO COOL. As always I advise doing CRW with an experienced CRW dog, but if none is around ... be careful and have fun.

I fit a Lightning 193 into a container sized for a Triathalon 176 (Hybrid). Sh*t was hanging out all over the place, but, what the hey, I was doing CRW:)

Never heard of a trashplane, but a pinwheel is pretty cool. It's a side-by-side with the jumpers facing the opposite direction. LOTS of tension, but a wild ride. The way I've done a pinwheel is from a bi-plane the top jumper comes down for a side by side but twists in his (or her:) risers by grabbing the bottom jumper's harness with their outside hand while the bottom jumper helps the top twist in his risers by grabbing the outside of the top's harness. At this point both parachutes are flying the same direction, but the jumpers are side by side facing in opposite directions. Take secure grips, then the jumper with the twisted harness pulls on inside toggle to spin his parachute around (start slow and pull inside toggle until it spins around). Presto, you're spinning like a top!! If both jumpers keep inside toggle pressure the canopies will stay together and the tension will be lessened. Let up and the canopies will spread apart and be very hard to hold. But like the man said, try it with an experienced dog and enjoy the ride.

never mind wendy, i found an updated link. thanks.

i had nassirs put on a triathalon hybrid 175, but i use them so infrequently that if i had to do it over again i wouldn't put them on. plus, when packing you have to pay close attention to the outside A lines or you can get a tension knot in them (correctable by pulling down on the nassir, but why put up with the hassle). btw, wendy i can't get your webpage anymore (it was on my favorites list). did you change the address?

Hmmmmm. I'll let the jump pilots know your interesting theory.

Hey Dogs, a couple of CRW hounds from Pennsylvania are planning a trip to Titusville April 4-7 to jump (too much snow this year in PA!). Any CRW dogs call Titusville home? We jump Triathons (sorry, but we do have a couple of hybrids, and they're not THAT bad with Lightnings), and are always looking for fellow denizens of the dark side. Anyway, never been to titusville; any tips on doing CRW there or what to do after the beer light comes on?

excellent advice! the problem with my home DZ is we like to keep the airplanes as close to the DZ as possible to save fuel. but i agree with your point, in those kind of winds, even if you're facing upwind you will find yourself being pushed backwards.

i would add that he shouldn't jump again until he can run across rough ground. you don't want an off-field landing ruining your day. btw, i have 6 pins and a titanium plate in the tibia and two screws in the fibula from landing a parachute damaged in a CRW collision. I waited until I could run across the kind of field CRW dogs have come to know. Of course, now I spot MUCH more carefully:)

also, in high winds its extremely important to make sure you face into the wind as much as possible during the jump (it's very easy to end up flying downwind if you're not paying close attention). the pilot should be keeping one eye on the ground and the other eye on the other jumpers.

just re-read billo's post and he does discuss using front risers. a thousand pardons.

just a comment to billo's discussion on CRW progression. he is absolutely correct that the base should not attempt a pin if he can't see the pin's feet; however, when getting "out of there" PLEASE do not use either your brakes or rear risers. it's best to use a single front riser (or nasser toggle if you have 'em) to move DOWN and away from the pin until you can see him again. then you can reapproach the target. as to maneuvers down low; a good rule to observe is no docks below 2,000' and break of formations at 2,000' unless you're going to do a downplane or land a stack. below 2,000' is not the place to have to cut-away from a wrap. as to how low to take a downplane, know what the ground winds are doing and any obstacles to avoid at break off. it's not really fun to do a downwind landing in 20 mph winds or to avoid an obstacle. on the other hand if you've got no winds and no obstacles burn it down! (look around during the downplane and see how the formation is flying and what your "outs" are) most importantly though, enjoy the beauty of the DARK SIDE.

For anyone new to CRW, they should jump with an experienced CRW dog until they have a few CRW jumps under their belt (personally, i'm always more than happy to turn someone new over to the "Dark Side"). Oh yeah, and read anything wendy faulkner has to say on the subject