ParrotheadVol

Keep in mind that Geestman does not owe you, or anyone in this forum, anything. That includes the truth. There are lots of liars in the world, but only one Dan Cooper. Being a liar does not make him Coopers accomplice. I don't always agree with Jo, but when she says that KC is the weakest of all the suspects, I absolutely agree. Weber, Uncle LD, Peterson...they at least got the attention and were looked at by the FBI. But they don't even bat an eye at ol Kenny. That is pretty telling. Very telling actually. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Are these witnesses that say he quit wearing the toupee after the hijacking, the same witnesses who remember that he skipped out on Thanksgiving dinner the weekend of the hijacking? Also, Ckret shot down the idea of Cooper wearing a toupee earlier in the forum. He basically said that no one mentioned that they thought he was wearing one. Much like I have a hard time with someone having colored contacts in 1971, I also have a hard time believing that Cooper could have worn toupee in 1971 and it went completely unnoticed, except by Mr. Mitchell, who was only a casual observer and had no reason whatsoever to remember anything about Cooper. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Bruce, I am about 15 minutes outside of Knoxville. I love it here, but totally get that it isn't for everyone. Jo, I agree that common sense should tell Blevins that KC isn't Cooper, but for some reason it does not. Quite honestly, common sense should rule out most, if not all of these suspects. But, in Blevins case, there is no doubt that he truly believes KC is the guy. As for Marla, her memories were from when she was 8. It stands to reason that she got some things wrong. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Hold up Bruce, I never said I believed LD was Cooper. I actually said the opposite, that I did not think LD was Cooper. I did say that I believed Marla's story - that she had memories and she told the truth about the memories. This is based largely on her passing the polygraph as I doubt she has the ability to manipulate such a test. If it turns out that her passing the polygraph is false information, then yes, I would be more skeptical of her story. If this case is ever solved it will be because someone with this kind of information comes forward. Marla did that. Turns out she was likely wrong. But she's not alone in that is she? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Marla's appearance at the Portland Symposium and the big publicity surge that followed was bad news for Geoff's book and he knew it would be, yet he let Marla have center stage at an event he arranged and paid for. I took that as a benevolent/alruistic move by Geoff against his own self interest. The Symposium barely promoted his book and did not restrict participation by critics or opponents. How do you see it Bruce? I am still puzzled by the FBI spokeswoman's initial enthusiasm about Marla's story. Hard to explain that one. Maybe she had too much coffee before she spoke to the UK reporter. 377 This seems to be a common belief that Marla was bad for Geoff's book sales. Why would that be? Geoff wrote a book about a 40 year old case that over half the population didn't even remember. It would seem to me that any publicity about the case would have stirred up interest and helped the sales of Geoff's book. I always had a passing interest in the case. But when I saw a headline a few years back, regarding Marla's uncle, I read the article. Soon thereafter, I found a story online that mentioned the new book about the hijacking. I bought the book. So, at least in my instance, Marla's story led to my purchase of Geoff's book. To clarify an earlier post, my belief is that Marla is not making up her memories. I do not believe uncle LD to be the hijacker. Though, I do wonder what it was about him that caused the FBI to take a good long look at him. They get these tips all the time. What about LD got their attention? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Also, he does not resemble the sketch. Yes, he resembles the one that is always used when trying to make a case against KC. But Florence Schaffner said that sketch was not accurate. The one that was done later, with her help, does not resemble KC at all. For the record, I believe Marla's story. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

True dat. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Just like Lyle Christiansen? (Except that Lyles brother never said so. Lyle just had an imagination). "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

It's not my job to take up Geestman's lies with him. For one thing, none of them have to do with me personally. Second, on some of his lies I didn't find out until later they WERE lies until Skipp Porteous and I did some checking. Some of his statements were not outright lies, but AAB's. (Attempts At Bullshit) I will separate the two on the list. Even though my comment was not directed at you, your response brings up an interesting question: Why not investigate Geestman and his lies? After all, your accusation is not that Kenny acted alone, but rather that he and Geestman worked together and that it was even Geestmans idea. So why only investigate one half of the guilty party? It stands to reason that if Geestman was involved, especially if it was his idea, that he would have not done it for free. Have you ever checked his finances? Did he loan out large sums of money, buy a house? If Geestman was involved, there is no way the investigation is complete without a deep long look at Geestman? Why has this not been done? Because he is still alive and can kick back, maybe? I think it is a fair question. You are, after all, accusing him of not just being an accomplice, but being the master mind behind NORJACK. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Robert, this comment was not directed at you, but rather to this Danielle kid who seems to have some very personal issues with Geestman. Sorry, I should have made that clear. But, I do take issue with the following example you gave of one of Geestmans lies: 5) Geestman was asked on Decoded whether or not he thought Kenny could be the hijacker. He told them this: 'You're asking me for MY opinion? Yes. He looks exactly like the picture the F.B.I. put out...' The problem with this statement is that several good witnesses have already placed Geestman missing - with Christiansen - the entire week the hijacking occurred. These witnesses are his then-wife Margaret, his good friend Helen Jones, and Jones' oldest daughter, who was fifteen in November 1971. I don't consider this a lie, even if it is true. For this to be a lie, Geestman would have to recall that he was with Kenny on that particular weekend over 40 years ago! If they were hijacking a plane, he probably remembers it. If they were doing normal, innocent activities then he probably does not recall exactly what he was doing and who he was with that particular weekend. You simply can't explain that away with "everybody remembers what they were doing when the a Cooper hijacking was going on". I doubt Geestman does, and I doubt that Margaret and Helen and her daughter do either. I find it amazing that all 3 have such an amazing memory of over 40 years ago, but none of them are aware enough to know that their dear friend, Mr. Christiansen was a DB Cooper "suspect" until you came along asking questions. Something does not add up there. Either way, it's impossible to call Geestman a liar on this point. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Were Geestmans lies that bad? He basically said he didn't know KC that well, right? Personally, if I feel that strongly about someone, I'll take that up with them man to man, face to face. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

I assume you are speaking of Geestman. Why the hate? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

It would be easier if you would stop using so many generalities. First, most of the evidence against Christiansen doesn't have a lot to do with the witness descriptions. Sure, he bears a resemblance. My point was you shouldn't lean on eyewitness testimony too heavily unless you can put someone 3-D and alive into a lineup. I think the chances are better that the hijacker fits the description to a degree, but it should not be considered a photograph, as many think it is. Robert Gregory pegged the hijacker at no more than five nine. You have Mitchell saying he may have been wearing a toupee. The stews varied on the height, from maybe five ten to six feet one. All three stews picked different facial combinations from the FBI catalog. Who knows? The truth is probably somewhere in between. In the Northwest, on the day of the hijacking, practically everyone dropped what they were doing and got around the television to watch the ongoing drama unfold. All three major stations cut their regular programming for hours. There may have been other hijackings, but nothing like this...where the plane sits on the ground and everyone knows the guy inside is waiting for money and chutes and everyone knows he's going to try and jump from the jet. It was a phenomenon. Helen Jones and her daughter had no trouble remembering that Kenny and Bernie skipped Thanksgiving dinner for example, and that Bernie's wife was pissed off about the whole thing. And SOME of the people surrounding Kenny DID wonder. Dawn Androsko, for example. She said she and a few of her friends wondered if Kenny could be Cooper, but dismissed this because he was too nice of a guy. It just wasn't possible, they thought. Had Jones or Androsko known that Kenny was a former paratrooper, who knows? They might have called the FBI on him. None of these people had heard of Geoff Gray or his article at the time I first spoke to them. One of the bigger pieces of evidence is simply the lies told by Bernie Geestman. And if you examine those lies, they all relate to either distancing himself from Kenny's finances or any involvement in the hijacking. We could go around about this all day, but why? You don't think Kenny's the guy. Fine. Join the club. It has many members. But there is a division of opinion about it. Some people think the case against him, when coupled with Geestman's lying and a few other things, believe the case is worth a look. Others don't. My opinion is that I suspect he was the hijacker, but I can't say for sure. I did about as much as I could. I do have new information on Kenny, etc but I'm not releasing that publicly until August. None of this info actually proves he was Cooper. It just straightens out a few things, a few points about him. I believe this is an honest attitude about Kenny, as opposed to Jo Weber, who continues to declare Duane Weber as 100% the hijacker with not a shred of evidence to back it up. I think my attitude is realistic, too. All I offer people is what is there and maybe someday someone legit will check it out. By legit I mean law enforcement or recognized members of the media, not Bruce Smith, or any other civilian investigator with an axe to grind. Non-partisan, if you will. That's all I can do. When I said that Kenny did not match the description, I specifically said the description from Mucklow and Schaffner. I never mentioned, nor do I care about the sketch. I also don't care that Bill Mitchell may have said that Cooper may have wore a toupee, when Carr said earlier in the forum that there was never any mention that Cooper may have wore a toupee. I wonder if Mitchell, who did not know what was happening and had no reason to remember anything about Cooper, could give accurate descriptions of the other passengers on that flight? Mucklow and Shaffners descriptions carry far more weight than those of passengers. I feel that you would strongly agree with that, and emphasize that, if there descriptions fit your suspect. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Really? Even I can't say that KC is Cooper for sure, so how do you know? That's strictly your opinion on it, not an actual fact. I appreciate it that you said I wasn't lying. This is better than some other people I could mention. Like a guy who simply makes up whatever he wishes regarding the relationship between me and Skipp Porteous. Article forthcoming on that.

Nope, Blevins isn't lying. He's just wrong about KC being Cooper. KC isn't even a suspect. No matter how many documentaries, books or screenplays get done on him. He is simply not a suspect. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Blevins: Margie Geestman's claim that her husband WAS involved...in six separate interviews. Jo has claimed, way more than six times, that Duane was involved. Marla claimed that her uncle was involved. Gossett's family says that he was involved. The Foreman's claim that their close friend Dayton was involved. Why is Margie any different than any of these? She is saying this now, but was she saying it then? I doubt it. Her claim of Geestman's involvement is speculation on her part, with no supporting evidence. A $5,000 cash loan to Mr Geestman's sister within five months of the hijacking...money there is no way to explain due to his poor income. Even if true, this does not link him to the hijacking. There are plenty of other ways to get cash than hijacking an airplane. Perhaps he borrowed the cash from someone? The fact that Kenny definitely knew how to use a parachute under difficult conditions...even though he had not done so in a while. According to the FBI, this would point away from him being Cooper. In any case, this does not point to KC any more than it does any other paratrooper, especially when considering that KC does not match the description of Dan Cooper. According to Helen Jones, the trailer Mr Geestman bought allegedly for 'camping' was only used twice before it was finally sold. First time was the week of the hijacking, second time was when the Jones' family was allowed to use it while fire repairs were being made on their house in late 1972. Again, I fail to see how this connects KC to being DB Cooper. Plenty of people buy things and never use them like they plan on. Happens all the time. I've done it myself. Bernie Geestman's string of lies, all of which attempt to distance himself from any possible involvement in the hijacking. Huge assumption here. How do you know that his lies is an attempt to distance himself from any involvement in the hijacking? Perhaps he is distancing himself from something else. Perhaps he is distancing himself from KC. Ask yourself this: Is there anything at all, any other reason, besides the hijacking that would make him want to lie. My guess is that there could be plenty of things. Maybe he's just a liar. That doesn't make him a criminal. Florence Schaffner's hesitant identification on KC. She told Geoff Gray that KC's picture was the closest she's ever seen to the hijacker. Gray says her hands started to shake while touching his picture. Schaffner also positively identified Coffelt as the hijacker. And to be fair, she never said Kenny was the guy. Let's examine another suspect for a minute. I have a few comments on William Gossett, for example. Besides all the leads that Cook has chased into dead-ends, one of my knocks on Gossett is that he just doesn't resemble the sketch in any reasonable way. Cook has made a habit of using pictures of Gossett for comparisons that were taken long before the date of the hijacking. I will attach one that was taken in May of 1973, just 18 months after the crime. There isn't the slightest resemblance, in my opinion. It also looks like Gossett is missing half of the eyebrow over his left eye, something that would be noticed by anyone looking at him. The later sketch that is used to compare to Gossett is a very good match. Not that it matters, because it don't. Kenny has some baldness going on that isn't depicted on the sketch. I know you answer to that is that Kenny wore a toupee, but ckret also stated earlier in the forum that there was never any mention that Cooper may have been wearing a toupee. The whole case against Kenny Christiansen is based on a whole bunch of possible, maybe "facts", that even if true, does not connect the guy to the hijacking. There is not one single piece of hard evidence that makes the connection. This is not personal, I just feel that everyone with a suspect should be challenged. Especially if they are moving forward with a screenplay and possible movie that will portray their suspect as a master criminal. A highly slanderous charge, if untrue. While on the subject I have to ask, when did you move away from "The truth is the only thing that matters with KC", to writing a screenplay depicting KC is Cooper? Even though the FBI has said that he isn't even a suspect. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Jo, you should just let it go. Bruce is pretty much just posting at the other site these days. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

The problem Robert, is that there is no evidence whatsoever to back up that story. It's just that...a story. Even if Christiansen and Geestman did disappear that weekend (which I doubt), that does not tie them to the hijacking. It does not even remotely suggest involvement in the hijacking in the slightest way. There is absolutely nothing that suggests they were doing anything other than camping. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

While going back and reading earlier parts of the forum (the parts where the case was actually discussed), I came across the following quote from Ckret that still rings true today. It needs to be said again: "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

RobertMBlevins, I read your synopsis of the screenplay. Are you going to use Bernie's real name in the script? Seems like you could get sued if you come right out accuse a living person of masterminding the hijacking. Why not? I'm okay with that. Let him sue us. Then he would have to answer all those annoying little questions. You know...where were you on Thanksgiving week with Kenny...why did you say on national TV you thought Kenny could be Cooper when you were with him...why did you lie to Marisa Kagan and History Channel staff when you said you hardly knew Kenny and thought he was a dishwasher...why did you say you were out to sea with Foss Tugs the entire year of the hijacking and Foss says you weren't...stuff like that. I could go on. Don't get me started. We are well-prepared for anything from Geestman. Trust me on this. I didn't list the half of it.

I had a JetEx as a kid. I accidentally touched the casing just after running it. You only do that once. I had a firecracker go off in my hand once. Another thing you only stupidly do once. A most horrible, peculiar type of pain. Way worse than the time my brother shot me in the back of the knee with a bb gun. Or the time he shot the horse in the rump with a slingshot -- with me riding the horse - just to see if it worked like it did in the movies. Yes, I still plot revenge. I used to hold firecrackers in my hand, light them, and then throw them. I did it all the time. Only once did I have one go off in my hand. I was standing in front of our preacher's house and was going to throw it in his yard. It went off just as soon as I lit the damn thing. Coincidence? Maybe. I took it as the man upstairs telling me not to mess with the preacher! A few weeks later, a bunch of my buddies wanted to go roll his yard. I stayed home. You are right though...that was the last time I ever held a firecracker in my hand while lighting it. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

But, at the end of the day, do we really know that KC and Bernie were together that weekend? For someone to remember who was at Thanksgiving dinner in 1971 would require Jo Weber like memory. I couldn't tell you what members of my family were at Thanksgiving dinner more than a couple of years ago. To be able to recall that, this many years later, to me is a big stretch. Also, if Geestman had anything to do with the hijacking, I doubt very seriously that he would agree to go on a TV show and talk about the hijacking and I doubt even more that he would say that KC could be the hijacker. Also, if they were together that weekend, I doubt Geestman remembers it. How can you expect anyone to remember who they were with on a particular day over 40 years ago. So, just because he says Kenny could be the hijacker, that isn't an admission of guilt. Also, Cooper had brown eyes. Kenny did not. Nothing against Blevins here. I choose not to participate in any negativity and i think he is sincere in his beliefs. But, Kenny Christiansen just isn't a good suspect. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Duane was obviously a very dedicated trouble groupie. JFK, RFK, MLK, DBC... Somehow he missed it when the Pope was shot. You gotta choose your continent. A guy cant be everywhere. Hey, dont be so skeptical, it coulda happened. As my statistical physics professor said: "Amazing coincidences do happen, but not very often. The more amazing, the less often." 377 I don't recall stating Geestman and Duane were friends....I am referring to the woman who Rode horses standing. Was she the one married to Geestman? If Geestman was her husband then maybe Duane knew him. I do NOT know during which yrs Duane knew the woman - but he talked about her and not her husband on our way to Seattle from Vancouver. WHY the HELL do you think I want to contact her - she might be the last living person who knew Weber! BUT no BLEVINS keeps that a big secret - I don't want to talk to her about Cooper - I want to know if she remembers Duane - I would like to know this before she dies. If she is the one married to Geestman then maybe Duane knew both of them. The only thing Duane said about Paradise is the BOYS used to stay there. So Parrothead - if I stated that Geestman knew Duane - please direct me to that post! I'm not going to go back and look for it, at least not right now. But a month or so ago, you made a post that implied that Geestman knew that Duane was the real hijacker and that he played dumb with the Decoded guys because he didn't want to reveal that Weber was actually DBC. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something to that effect. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Jo, a few weeks ago you were saying that Duane and Bernie Geestman were acquaintances. Now, you are saying that Duane knew Sheridan Peterson? I'm sorry and I'm not trying to be mean, but this all belongs on a soap opera. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Seems like someone did an experiment several years ago in which a computer program picked Weber as the one that mostly resembled the sketch....which sketch, I'm not sure. But that was years ago (I think it was mentioned on the KOIN segments about Mayfield, which can be seen on YouTube). I wouldn't put much stock into that though. Personally, I'd bet any amount of money I had that Weber isn't DBC. I would bet even more that Christiansen isn't DBC. The Gossett story, at least to me, is very lacking in anything that would even make me think for half a second that he could be the guy. If Cooper survived, my money is on someone we have yet to - and probably never will - discuss. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider