ParrotheadVol

Have we figured out who the liar is yet? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

If Margie Geestman wanted to avoid all of the questions and the attention from this, a much simpler alternative would have been to not do the interview at all. Saying she left town because of theses things is 100% pure speculation, which fits, because that's what the whole KC is Cooper argument is anyway. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Not answered. The story that we have been told about two FBI agents obtaining a DNA sample from Lyle is an outright lie. Plain and simple. It's been told over and over on this forum. It is not an error in research. The fact that it went uncorrected for so long may be an error in research. But, the story itself is a lie. Just like the house purchased with cash was a lie. As I said there is a liar somewhere in this Kenny Christiansen story and you don't seem to eager to reveal who that is. Someone started these lies...who? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

So, another previously stated "fact" turns out to have no truth to it at all. I know you think that this is pretty insignificant, but things like this are the reason that most people don't buy into Kenny as a suspect. You have a guy here who is not even close to the description, worked for the very airline he supposedly hijacked for 20 more years, and then you put out "facts" based on hearsay that later prove to have no bearing at all. This "fact" was mentioned several times here and seemed to indicate that at least someone with the FBI had interest in Kenny as a suspect at one point. Turns out, not so. I will ask you the same thing I asked about the cash purchase of Kennys house (another"fact" turned "insignificant error"), that you never answered: Where did this idea that the FBI visited Lyle originate? I know you will try to spin this as nothing, but there's a point I'm trying to make, and im making it here not at another site. Robert, there is a liar somewhere in this Kenny Christiansen story. "The house was bought with cash, the FBI visited Lyle and took DNA samples from him". Robert, these are lies and they are both lies that you pushed for quite a long time and didn't even change in your PDF until you got a lot of pressure about it and finally took the PDF down, rather than replace the lie with a truth. So, my question - and the public is watching - is a simple one: Who is the liar? Where did these lies originate? You? Lyle? Porteus (who still has articles on his website saying the house was bought with cash)? These are lies that have a source and it's time to expose that source. I'm not suggesting that you are the liar here Robert, but you are the one that heavily pushed the lies. So, where did they originate? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Robert, you made a long post pointing out that Kennys money when he died was suspicious. Shutter then offers what seems to be a very reasonable explanation to this. He says he knows this but questions if you do. You have yet to refute his explanation. You often point out the traffic that this forum gets and how the public regularly views it. The public is currently seeing you go mum and refuse to refute something in direct contrast to your statement. Perhaps you will answer my question then: How much money did Kenny Christiansen have before the hijacking? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

What happens more here: Jo predicts a major break in the case, which never comes? OR Robert says he isn't looking at the other site for a while, only he really is. And can't quit. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

One other point about putting the money in a paper bag. Suppose for a second that your theory is correct and Cooper planted the money in an effort to convince the FBI that he died in the jump. If that money is found in a paper bag, it proves just the opposite. The money was not delivered to Cooper in a paper bag, so finding three bundles of Cooper cash in a paper bag shows human interaction with the money after the jump. Thus, it's ludicrous to think that Cooper placed the money in a paper bag (or any other container) as part of a plant to throw off the FBI. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Robert, I have pointed this out in the past: you did not originate the idea that three bundles could not arrive in the same spot independent of each other. That was discussed in length before you were ever involved. Regardless of how Fhurman answered your question, I'm sure the FBI was well aware of the possibilities and probabilities involved. It's laughable to think otherwise. No one is ignoring that idea at all. If the money was placed in a paper bag and tossed in water, what happened to the paper bag? Finally, you seem to be ignoring the possibility that the money arrived at Tena Bar in the original container (bank bag) and then the cash that was found became separated from the bag. Finally, didn't Kayes research that the money would sink not long after being placed in water and didn't he also show that the bills would fan out? This seems to be in contrast with your theory. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

I have no idea what you are talking about, and probably...neither does anyone else. I'm fine with your ban on posting or whatever. I stopped by and saw some discussion on how I don't enable comments on any Cooper videos I upload at YouTube. You and Georger were recently discussing this at your site. So I simply answered your question on WHY, and pointed out that OTHER Cooper video posters, like Safecracking PFL, do the same thing. I actually complimented you (sort of) for dropping your block on VPN's, in case you didn't notice. You are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Since Galen Cook is no longer posting his outright lies there about my co-author Skipp Porteous (claiming email messages from Skipp trashing me, messages which never existed in reality) I no longer have a problem. Didn't spend much time looking around or anything. I don't care that much what goes on there anymore, since all of that from Cook stopjped. As far as any Cooper videos you have going, I haven't seen any of them anyway. Didn't even know you had any uploaded. But if you tell me that (generously) 350 out of the total of 2500 posts at your site are about me personally or Kenny Christiansen, you should have expected I would at least drop by and take a peek. To think anything else would be unrealistic. After I did, I wasn't concerned about anything going there. As I said, everyone is entitled to opinions and discussion on any Cooper subject or personality. I just didn't like seeing those lies by Cook, but you seemed to have handled that fine. I have commented on Safecracks YouTube videos before, and gotten a response from him. If he is blocking comments, that is a recent change, probably due to the fact that he truly is out of the Cooper biz now (supposedly). "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Blevins, here is a nice pic for you. Be afraid. Be very afraid. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

NO. No one was bashing you. I pointed out previously that I have even endorsed you sometimes. You are being defensive for nothing. My points in the previous posts were perfectly valid. Is there a Cooper-related post from you somewhere? Is there a Cooper related post anywhere? From anyone? Your post about the interview was not Cooper related. It was Kenny related. Big difference. Say what you will about Shutters site, but the Cooper case is discussed there. The Dropzone has been reduced to two people constantly posting about their pet suspects, and that's it. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Robert, if you really want to hear what loud sounds like, over a hundred thousand strong in Neyland Stadium tomorrow when my Vols beat up on the Gators. Nothing in the NFL can touch it. I do wish the Cossey case would get solved, to quiet the conspiracy theorists, and to give the family closure as well. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

EDIT: Excerpt from an interview of Kenda by Pete Crooks, a contributor for Diablo Magazine: (Drawn under Fair Use rules) ***Pete: Looking back on your remarkable track record, why were you the one who was able to solve all these cases? What are the skills that a successful homicide investigator needs to have, to be able to deal with these incredibly demanding cases? KENDA: In general, you need to have a knowledge of the law—you need to know what you can do and, more important, what you can not do while conducting an investigation. And, just as important—you need to be naturally curious. You need to have an undying curiosity about every case. Where guys make mistakes is forming an opinion on the way to the crime scene. I never did that. Let's say you show up at the crime scene and there is a blonde woman lying face down with six bullets through the chest. You need to ask every possible question to figure out why this blonde is lying here dead. Is she dead because her husband got tired of the way she butters her toast every morning for 25 years? Or, is she dead because someone out there thinks all blondes are she-devils who need to pay. And you ask every question in between. Then, you need to get to know the victim. Who is this person? Who is the victim? Tell me about the victim. Do they have a secret life? So, you start to poke. You start to probe. And even when you’re in the dark, and you’re not sure where you're going, when you keep poking, and someone says ouch ... well now. Who might you be? Tell me this guy shouldn't be allowed access to the Earl Cossey murder file, as a professional courtesy. He has an amazing 92% success rate working on almost 400 homicides in his career. I don't think the King County Sheriffs' Office has a clue about the case. Kenda has often said that there are usually three motives for murder. Money, sex, or revenge. Since the KCSO and the Woodinville Police Chief already admitted in a town meeting last year that items were missing from Cossey's home, I would put the motive at MONEY. Update: Brother, do I have nerve or what? I emailed the King County Sheriffs' Department earlier today. I asked them if they had checked burglaries in Cossey's neighborhood just previous to his murder. Guess what? I did this last year and found three of them. One was shortly before he was killed, and less than two blocks from his house. (Checked burglary reports at the local online paper, the Woodinville Patch) I asked KCSO if they had checked on that...and maybe they should let Kenda have a look at the current case file. Let's face it. They haven't done a damn thing on the Cossey case that I can see. A nice old guy gets beaten to death in his own garage and more than a year later no one has a clue. It's probably too late for this, but last year I thought the cops should have checked all the security video at the casino where Cossey gambled and check all the faces at the tables where he hung out. I wonder sometimes if they even thought of that. No surprise the Feds think KCSO is a lame-o entity for Major Cases. You should choose a weekend other than next weekend if you want to enjoy your new radio. You will find no joy in listening to the Cowboys spank that ass! Also, welcome back to DZ and the Cooper Biz! "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

So, right in the middle of your rejuvenated investigation into Mr. Kenny, you decide (once again) to get out of the Cooper business? I can't help but wonder what triggered this latest (but certainly not the last) resignation. If you're quitting now, there has to be a reason. Perhaps you have finally realized what the rest of us already knew? Or a cease and desist, perhaps? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

R99, your theory is at least possible and believable. Unlike any theory requiring a plant. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Blevins, Your estimate above is not correct. Surely you are aware that people die and are thus removed from the "population". You did not consider these deaths in making your claims above. Robert99 Interesting. http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/01/world_population_may_actually_start_declining_not_exploding.html "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Remorse hell! Jo, exactly what did YOU do to make sure that boy didn't jump off the Tacoma Narrows bridge(s) as he had threatened? And now you are claiming that Bruce is capable of killing? That is really a stretch for even you! Jo, get help for your emotional problems! Robert99 Well, Andy would have had to make his way about 2,800 miles to do that...and from his emails to me it wasn't really the problem you stated. He said he thought people were picking on him. He's autistic, as you know. Some of you stood up on your pedastals (after tossing out unending insults galore to others here) and chastised Andy for calling Bernie Geestman a liar. (True enough) It was phony at its best for sure. Compared to some of the stuff I've seen posted by so-called 'adults' in Cooperland, Andy's stuff was pretty tame. In the end, I would call it a fair exchange. Andy's mom made him stop posting here, and someone else got themselves banned. Both results were probably for the best.

"It's unlikely he had a criminal record" That's a hell of a first crime. No way to prove it, but I'd bet money he had a criminal past. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

You made yourself clear, Robert. I don't think you understood my point though. If that money is found, inside a paper bag, it shows Cooper lived. If he died in the jump, then how would the money wind up in a paper bag? He would have had no assurances that the bag would disappear, while the money would eventually be found with no trace of the bag. But, for your theory to work, you need the bag or some other container to keep the money together. As far as your book recommendation goes, I read the description of the book. As a proud christian myself, I think I will pass on that one. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

I have a different theory. I think the money was originally in another container, such as a heavy paper bag, and was tossed into the Columbia, eventually washing up on Tina Bar. From the evidence on the condition of the found money (source: www.citizensleuths.com) it seems unlikely the money was deposited anywhere at all at the time of the actual hijacking, but LATER. The most obvious motivation to try doing a red herring like this could be the issuance of the John Doe warrant against the hijacker in November, 1976. Explanation for Cooper Novices: At the time of the Cooper hijacking, the Statute of Limitations on air piracy was five years, although this was later changed. But for Cooper, it was five years. As the statute was about to expire, a couple of FBI agents and a Federal prosecutor went in front of a judge in Portland, OR and requested a 'John Doe' warrant that would allow the FBI to bypass the statute and continue their search for the hijacker. (Warrants are issued based on IDENTITY. They must contain a name, generally. Since the FBI was unable to identify Cooper, there was never a warrant for his arrest issued. Just a wanted poster. And something like that falls under a Statute of Limitations.) This is a reletively unusual move, and not always granted by Federal judges, who might see this warrant as a bypass around certain Constitutional guarantees. But the judge decided to issue the warrant anyway, restricting it to only the hijacker himself, and not any possible accomplices. The issuance of the warrant made the news, and was probably known to the hijacker. So...instead of being free and clear on the five-year anniversary of the hijacking...Cooper would know the FBI could continue to look for him for the rest of his life. This could motivate him to try and throw off the FBI with a plant near the river. Planting money in the forest for example, would not work. The FBI, should they discover such money, would search the area...and finding nothing else they would assume the hijacker was still alive. (Not finding parachutes, body, or remainder of the money) It wasn't until they found the money on the banks of the Columbia that some FBI agents began saying that Cooper must have died in the jump, i.e. he went into the Columbia, and that's why there wasn't any body or other evidence found. They also began scaling back the search for the hijacker after that time, although they still investigated the incoming tips sometimes. In a way, if this was the reason the money ended up at Tina Bar, then the hijacker succeeded to a degree. Cooper must have been extremely upset when he discovered the FBI had bypassed the statute on him. Can you imagine it? Maybe he's got that date marked on his calendar. Maybe a party on November 25th to celebrate how he got away with it? And then...the news comes on telling him the FBI found a friendly Federal judge down in Portland at the very last minute before the statute was due to expire. Bummer. So he put the money in another container? What then, if they money is found inside this "other container"? That would seem to indicate that Cooper lived, otherwise how did he put the money in this other container? Secondly, haven't tests showed that this money would not float very long? Third, a plant only works if the money is found. How did KC insure that the money would be found, but yet that the "other container" would be gone by then? This theory is full of holes. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

He said, "I don't need that", because he didn't need that. I have never bought into the idea that he was a novice. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Blevins says: "You guys want to know everything about what we're doing investigating KC. But there are penalties involved because some of you will go to any lengths to discredit, even if it involves lying or hurting others who have nothing to do with that investigation. " Don't include me in "you guys". I have never asked about your current investigation and I have absolutely no axe to grind. I have downloaded the original pdf and saw nothing that ties Kenny to Norjack. It basically says that Kenny is unaccounted for on that weekend, so he must have been hijacking a plane. You say you will discover the truth. My question is will you recognize it when you find it? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

There is another possibility Robert. The possibility that Kenny never said "There is something you should know, but I can't tell you". The possibility that Lyle is just plain full of shit. All of this investigating and there still is not one single piece of solid evidence that links Kenny to Norjack. None. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Well, other than a set of brass balls. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

The ebook is $5.99 at Amazon. I have less than 100 pages left in the Jack Reacher book I am currently on. I may take a small break from Reacher and check out this one. (Tom Cruise was a horrible choice to play Reacher. In the books, Reacher is 6'5" and blond headed. That's about as big a stretch as making KC out to be Cooper). "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider