ParrotheadVol

Nice no answer. You assume that KC paid the Grimes back quickly but have no supporting evidence. This isn't research or investigating. It's fiction. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

BLEVINS: "... The son of the owners has testified that there is no way his parents would have waited very long to get their money, which was in the thousands of dollars. But Kenny took almost 19 years to pay off the SeaFirst mortgage. Our conclusion was that Christiansen most likely paid off the Grimes couple in a very short time in cash, and then stretched out the mortgage for years to make it appear he had little or no money, to avoid suspicion....." So Robert, how old was this guy when his parents made this deal with KC? Was he even alive yet? How does he know how his parents would have worked such a deal that many years ago? Is there any proof that Kenny paid off the Grimes in a very short time? Or did you come to that conclusion because it better fits your suspect? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Well, after having my ass kicked by the flu for the last several days, there's much I would like to respond to. I think I'll just pass, for now. Merry Christmas Everyone! "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

BLEVINS: " You want to quote the record on the descriptions? Geoff Gray was allowed access to the original witness reports taken by FBI agents at the time of the crime. He says they were all over the place. The stews each selected a different combo from the FBI's Facial ID Catalog" my reply Robert, we have been over this before. My second grade son could tell you that the most important descriptions are from those who knew what was going on and spent time with the hijacker and had a reason to remember what he looked like. The other passengers, Bill Mitchell included, had no reason to remember such things. You could give two people a photograph of someone and they would still probably select a different combo from the FBI's Facial ID Catalog. You are trying to suggest that Flo and Tina gave different descriptions of Cooper, when in fact, their descriptions were very close, according to Larry Carr. You like to act like the descriptions are all over the place and that no one really knows the physical description. The FBI obviously put more importance on Flo and Tina's description, and rightfully so. I know of only one person that questions this: you. BLEVINS: "I still say it might be tough to get it right on a description when you are not only under duress, but the subject is mostly sitting down in the confines of an aircraft cabin" my reply Do you just suggest this, or do you have some kind of data to support it? Actually, I think the opposite may be true. In an aircraft cabin, there is a ceiling above that can be used as a reference. Sort of like when a tall person is sitting inside a car, their head is closer to the roof of the car and you can tell they are a taller person. Not that this is fact, but if either were true, I would think it easier to gauge someone's height in an aircraft, not the other way around. Further, Tina stood beside Cooper and you never address that when it is brought up. When standing in the confines of an aircraft cabin, is it also hard to tell if the person standing next to you is taller than you? Tina is the same height as Kenny and she said Cooper was taller than her. Only one person questions this: you. BLEVINS: "I don't know why it amazes you that people can recall things from years ago......When you are trying to gather testimony from people on a day long ago, this is easily done if you have a reference. A 'reference' is an event they can use to associate their memories. For example, if I asked what you were doing on July 26, 1974 and didn't use a reference it might be tough. If I added, "Oh, that's the day the Cessna crashed into City Hall in your hometown there..." Then, the memories would pop up like Orville Redenbacher." my reply I can remember the day that Elvis died. I was just a kid. I was laying down on the couch at my grandfathers house and the news scrolled across the bottom of the screen (this was back in the 3 channel days) that Elvis had died. I remember my grandfather reading it aloud. I always think back to that day when someone mentions Elvis' death. But, I don't recall much else. I don't remember if my parents were there or not. Or my sister or cousins. I don't remember much else about that day, certainly no details. I don't remember the day before or the day after. 9-11 is the same way. I remember watching the second plane hit and knowing that something was not right. But, I can only remember one of the other people I was watching it with. This was even at work, so the people I was watching it with could only be from a select group, but I just don't remember those details. Why? Because they were not important. I remember the things that were important, like the fact that Elvis had died or the towers got hit. But I don't remember that my grandfather might used to have a toupee that he never wore again after Elvis died. I can remember getting into trouble all of the time. I can specifically remember things I did that caused me to get my ass busted. But were those things before Elvis died? After? I have no idea. But, here's the kicker. One of my strong suits, is that I pay a lot of attention to detail and have a very strong memory. Any time me and my friends are reminiscing about the good old days, they always ask me how I can remember the things that I do. But I remember things like "Todd was the one that picked up the piece of granite from the railroad tracks and bounced it off the hood of a cop car" (true story). But I don't remember things like, "John wasn't there when Todd picked up the piece of granite from the railroad tracks and bounced it off the hood of a cop car". What was important about that story was who did what, not who was not there. No one remembers the small unimportant details over that long of a time frame. But, now you have a 50 something year old that remembers walking in on Kenny making a fake bomb just days before the hijacking. Maybe it was days after the hijacking. Maybe it was a year after the hijacking. Maybe two or three. But, if you are telling us that her memory is that good, that she remembers this happening just a few days before NORJACK, I'm calling bullshit. Period. While you don't want to back any of your assumptions up with facts, there have been several scientific studies that shows that time definitely alters memories. The fact that you have all of these people on the same page about Kenny missing Thanksgiving dinner is a sure sign of collusion. Over that long of a time period, one would absolutely expect differing accounts of certain events. But everyone on the same page, again, I'm calling bullshit. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

We are talking about two different things Robert. Certainly, a suspect can be identified and investigated. But, not to the degree in which you have to change known facts and evidence to fit that suspect. Now, you are also trying to change history as well by saying that Tina was too pressued or nervous to give an accurate description. The known facts say otherwise, but you attempt to change that with absolutely no supporting facts. Look, Tina was with Cooper for several hours. She sat next to him, she stood next to him, she talked to him and he talked to her. She gave a description that was nothing like Kenny Christiansen. No amount of interviews with the Geestman family or anyone else can change this fact. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Really? Can you back this up with some sort of data? I'm betting not. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

I just finished watching a documentary on Authur Leigh Allen, who was the primary suspect in the Zodiac Killer case. Although the show was about a Zodiac suspect, there was a quote at the end that certainly applies to the DB Cooper case and the "suspects" in that case including, but certainly not limited to, one Kenneth Christiansen. The quote comes from Dr. Kim Rossmo, who is Research Professor, Department of Criminal Justice at Texas State University. Dr. Rossmo says the following: "It's very important, and I think that this is something that has been forgotten about in the Zodiac case, It's very important to let the evidence drive the suspects, not let the suspects drive the evidence. What I mean by that is we evaluate our suspects by our known reliable physical evidence. We don't look at a good suspect that we think we have a personal interest in or a particular theory that we favor and then start to re-interpret the physical evidence. That's not how you do a case, that's gotten a lot of people into trouble in the whole Jack The Ripper case, one of the most famous unsolved serial murder investigations and we tend to see now books with various titles full about how they've solved the case, etc. But the actual fact is they tend to be more text books of how not to do a criminal investigation. It's important for any analyst or investigator, profiler or detective or anyone who is seeking to determine the truth, and let's throw in judges and scientists here too, is to come as unbiased as possible, look through all the facts and the data, and make the best determination at the end of the day. But if we've made our determination before hand, the psychological research is very clear, try as we might, we become locked into circular patterns of thinking and we keep returning to what we want to think rather than what the evidence suggests that we should think. So, if we're going to evaluate someone like Author Leigh Allen, we have to consider all of the ways he doesn't match the profile of the Zodiac". I also found another quote recently (again from the Zodiac case) that I think applies. This was a second hand quote attributed to a Lt Bruton of SFPD talking about Zidiac suspects and circumstantial evidence in October 1999: "You could open a page of the telephone book at random, throw a dart, investigate the person it lands on, and build up a good case against him". "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

It never ceases to amaze me how all of these witnesses that you come up with have such impeccable memories. Also, you obviously need Tina to be in a panicked state of mind during the hijacking so that you can render her description as inaccurate. Unfortunately, the record shows that she was anything but. I'm going to venture a wild guess here and say that rolled up coins could be made to resemble a small stick of dynamite, depending upon the color of the paper used to roll the coins in. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Wow, Parrot Head. Now you're insinuating that I'm a slanderer, and I DON'T like it. There are a couple elements of slander that you have to consider before you throw the term in my direction. One is malice, the desire to harm someone else through statements verbal or written. I don't think I've written about Kenny with any malice. Some disagree with me, and equate being not nice as basically the same thing as malice. Another element is truthfulness. Is anything I have written about Kenny not true? If so, what is it? As for Kenny's status as a free-lance, ad-hoc foster daddy, well in my judgement he was very irresponsible in how he approached the needs of these kids. Sure they needed a place to stay, and Kenny sounds like a great buddy who brings treats and goodies. But it does sound like classic grooming behavior. Okay, he didn't touch anybody, and I accept that but my eyes are raised and concerned. Just as importantly, where was daddy when Kenny was winging to Tokyo? Who watched out for these kids? Leaving at risk youth unattended is not right. To me, the whole scenario in Bonney Lake does not sound healthy or wise. That's the perspective I write from, and if anyone has a problem with that, well, then live with it. As for Kenny being a hijacker. No way, Jose, and apparently the FBI feels the same way despite what Bobby says that Freddy Gutt says, etc..... Bruce - When I say that the Kenny story is either "true, or it is slander", I am referencing the DB Cooper allegations. I do not consider anything you wrote as libelous or slanderous in any way. As I said, I won't make accusations about the man, but I wouldn't let my son hang out with him either. The point I was making was that Mr. Blevins has done much to attack the character of Kenny Christiansen, while you put forth a couple of facts about him while making no final judgement. I was trying to convey the fact that there was nothing wrong with what you wrote. Perhaps I did a poor job with that. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

None of us like to be accused of things that we are not guilty of. I would certainly not like to be accused of hijacking a plane and threatening to murder several innocent people. I would certainly not like to be accused of being a child molester. I would hope that after I am gone, that I would also not be accused of either. Why? It's simple. True or not, Some people hear these type of things a believe them. I do not know Kenny Christiansen or have enough knowledge about him to suggest that he was a child molester. I hope for the sake of several once young boys, that he was not. But if I had a gay neighbor that took in young boys, I can assure you that the first contact he made with my son would be his last. It does look questionable. Doesn't mean it is though. Hopefully, it was perfectly innocent behavior. But, it does beg a question. Suppose, perhaps even assume, that Kenny was neither a child molester or Dan Cooper. How do you think that he would have responded to each allegation? Who would he be more pissed off at? Bruce, for merely repeating what was in Gray's book and never really made a full accusation...OR Blevins, who has co-authored a book, spent countless hours on websites posting messages and posting videos, and trying to transform his accusations into a movie? If truly innocent of all of this, who has done the most damage to Kenny's reputation. Also, simply because ones friends and family also make these accusations, don't make them any more right or alleviate any guilt from making these claims. Robert likes to say that Kenny was either Cooper or he wasn't. I tend to put it this way: The Kenny story is either true, or it's slander. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Bruce, how dare you take a few known facts about Kenny Christiansen, and try to insinuate that those facts are an indication that he engaged in some sort of criminal behavior!! No one else would dare do such a thing!!! "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

I can't remember Mitchell's exact quote, but when I read it, it certainly did not seem as if he thought Cooper was wearing a toupee? You like to point out that Lyle does not know one way or the other if Kenny was Cooper. But, I will point out that he did know that two FBI agents did not collect his DNA, and he most certainly knew that Kenny did not purchase his house with cash. But, he never bothered to correct either of these lies. Perhaps, the lies originated with him? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Hate mail? Really? I certainly did not take your comparison as any kind of endorsement of Hitler or his actions. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Robert, in recent days you have called Georger a liar and used his real name in this forum. You think that maybe that has something to do with why he was calling you? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Blevins, in reply to my post, you said the following: Stop worrying. And stop spouting lies. Chances are great that absolutely nothing will come of releasing our new report anyway. And don't try to tell me you aren't worried about it. If you weren't...you wouldn't be here posting all the time about Kenny, or busy shoveling out the horsecrap at the other site. I have to ask, what lies am I spouting? Secondly, regardless of what you believe, I am not in the least worried about your new report on Kenny. I want to see the case solved. I do not have a pet suspect, nor are there any suspects that I hope are not Cooper. I just want the thing solved. As far as the other site, I post more here than I do there. That is because when I have an issue with your theory, I bring it here so that you can respond. I thought that is how you would prefer it. There is a real basic problem going here. Seems like it's okay for certain Cooper Royalty to not just make mistakes, but to spout any old lie they feel like...and not have to answer for it. I think some of you are willing to pull out all the stops - and that includes coming with loads of horseshit posts at the alternate site - because you are worried about the upcoming report, or you dislike me personally, or whatever your beef happens to be. It's not like we can 'mold' Kenny into the hijacker, you know. Either he was or he wasn't, and everyone has their opinion on that. Our opinion is that he *might* be the hijacker, but frankly we would like the Seattle FBI to take a look at our evidence and interview the witnesses we are going to name for them. And to compare Lyle's DNA profile to the partial profile from the tie. Most of you seem afraid of this idea, or question it...which makes not a bit of sense for people who supposedly want the final answers on Christiansen. My beef is with your story and the mistakes in it, and your leaving lies out there for the public to see, rather than correcting them when they are exposed. I have absolutely no dislike for you personally (we've never met) and it would not bother me at all if you turned out to be right on Kenny. I have two issues when it comes to Kenny: 1. He does not match the description. Too short, Too white, Too bald, Wrong eyes, no one would think he was of latin descent. 2. The story has too many errors, some of which are outright lies. It's happened too much for me to ever buy into any of it. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine today who has recently read my copy of "Skyjack". We talked about the evidence against Kenny Christiansen, who happened to be his favorite suspect. I was easily able to tear down most of the evidence pretty easily. The problem was though, he simply could not understand how Kenny Christiansen could have paid cash for his house if he was not the hijacker. I explained to him how that had been shot down several months ago. He didn't believe me and pointed me to a video on youtube by none other than Robert Blevins. This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmGbRMMrQQw This video pointed out several times that Kenny Christiansen paid cash for his house shortly after the hijacking. We know this not to be the case, but this video is still out there promoting a lie. And with comments disabled, no one can dispute it. People see it, and they believe it. I showed him some DZ postings from the last several months and was able to clearly demonstrate that the house purchased for cash was simply not true. A lie. He asked me why Blevins would lie about this. I said that I did not think that Blevins created the lie, but I also said that Blevins obviously is in no hurry to correct it and that he continues to spread the lie by having this video up at youtube. (The video also mentions the $300,000 stamp/coin collection). His final comment to me after seeing many of the postings on DZ, was that in his eyes, Mr. Blevins credibility had taken a serious hit. He now says, knowing the truth, that he can see why I do not consider Kenny Christiansen to be a viable suspect in the Cooper case. And he agrees. Then I see the following comments made by Blevins today: "Your site is credibility-lacking indeed" "You bring up our errors from years past, ones we already know about. Your people continue spouting BS today...and don't even have the sense to do a retraction or a correction when they get caught" I do agree that a retraction / correction is in order. Absolutely. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Jo, what I do know, is that once upon a time Georger told us of a radio interview in which Lyle C. admitted that his brother was probably not DB Cooper. Robert Blevins repeatedly said this interview never happened. But, Shutter has actually made contact with the host of this radio show who has confirmed everything Georger said. I, for one, will give Georger the benefit of the doubt on this. I don't think the guy is a liar. But, there is a liar in the Kenny Christiansen saga. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Just where did you see this posting at? Speaking of just making things up, have we made any headway yet in determining who the liar is in the Kenny Christiansen saga? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

You hit on an interesting point: "What makes any of the multitude of so called "suspects" suspects?" I think it takes more than just throwing their name out there. We know that guys like Weber, Peterson and LD Cooper were all looked at by the FBI at one time or another. So I think it's fair to label them as suspects, or at least it was at one time, maybe no so much now. Then you have guys like Kenny Christiansen who have been put out there, that we have nothing from law enforcement - specifically the FBI - that seems to indicate any interest in the guy. To me, that makes him NOT a suspect. Lespy would fall into this category as well. I don't know the exact number of men that went missing around the time of the hijacking or in the years prior. But I wouldn't label any iof them as suspects only because they have remained unaccounted for. Further, I don't believe the FBI should waste time simply eliminating "suspects". "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

With all due respect, I have yet to see anything that makes Lespy a suspect in Norjack. Sure, he hasn't been eliminated, but neither has my dad and I'm pretty sure that he wasn't Cooper. I do however agree that the hijacker may be someone who has disappeared around that time frame. I often wonder about Melvin Wilson. Again, he's probably not the one either. But the fact that he went missing closer to the hijacking, had to dump (oddly enough) 200 grand in fake money and was a known criminal, at least makes him a better suspect than Lespy. I would love to see both cases solved just simply so that the families of these men could have some closure. But I doubt that either would lead to the solution of Norjack. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Well, at least you linked to Steve Earle. In my opinion, a very vastly underrated songwriter. (And Cheryl ain't half bad to look at either!). "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

I think Lou Rawls had a song titled, "You'll Never Find (Another Love Like Mine)". "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Sounds like once Lyle decided that Kenny being DB Cooper would make a good story, several "facts" were manufactured to make it fit. Once these mistruths (lies) are stripped away, Kenny becomes an ordinary guy. The fact that this story has had a great deal of embellishment is not even debatable. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Robert, your comment at the end of this article indicates that you knew full well who he and Christiansen were prior to Porteous contacting you. http://blog.sherlockinvestigations.com/2007/11/db-cooper-new-york-magazine.html Your comment was: Robert M. Blevins said... Oh, I believe Sherlock Investigations hit it on the head with this one. I was 18 years old and grew up in Sumner, Washington, just down the street from Bonney Lake. On the measly salary paid Christiansen by the airline, there is no way he could have saved up $16,000 for the house in Bonney Lake. It would have taken him years. This is an old case, but it would interesting to know if any of his old bank records, or tax returns exist somewhere. On a side note, anytime you feel like doing a book on this subject, drop me a line. You can find me at Adventure Books of Seattle. I'm the managing editor. "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Reason # 20 on the Top 25 reasons KC may be DBC is as follows: 20) Coins and Stamps - One of the things Kenny had in his estate was a large collection of stamps and gold coins. It was left to his family in Minnesota. The authors discovered that most of it was ordered by mail through a P.O. box down in Sumner, although Kenny had moved to Bonney Lake shortly after the hijacking. My question: How can you discover that the stamps and coins were ordered by mail, but can't confirm now that they ever existed? "They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider