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QuoteCan you give me an example of something that his facial expressions told you he didn't know could happen? Seriously, if there's some giant hole in the training I give I would really like to know about it. Did I really miss something important or do you think you may have misinterpreted his facial expressions?
Tony, I don't want to re-hash the conversation we had in person as it would serve no purpose. It's not your quality of instruction to him that was in question. It was you decision process as a mentor to him and your implied responsibilities that you felt you had no obligation to follow through with. It was during that portion of the discussion that it was apparent to me, that he and I had a similar outlook as opposed to your stated outlook.
It's not a question about being responsible for your own ass, it's about that individual biting off more than he can chew and the mentor/instructor not telling that person that they aren't ready yet. Just because someone steps up to the plate and says I wanna go, doesn't mean they necessarily know what they are getting into or if it's beyond them at that point in time. There is no question that everyone is ultimately responsible for themselves but as an instructor or a mentor to a person you have a responsibility to look out for that persons best interest,especially when it is clear they don't know what they don't know yet. Thats all that I am saying.
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING
JohanW 0
Quote.. it's just not that hard to do it without dying. Even when things go badly. With the right gear in the right environment it's just really no big deal.
I do not agree with you on this point. Empathically very much *NOT*.
It's not just another jump.
I am. I think.
mccordia 73
Quotein the right environment it's just really no big deal
If skydiving (and to a much bigger degree BASE) was a static environment..maybe..
But its quite dynamic, and there will always be something unexpected..be it a high canopy, cloud, tumble on exit, other flyer in the air (who does stick to his flight plan when your new flyer doesnt, and sets up for collision) etc. etc.
And in the hands of the un-experienced, these factors can develop into scary or even potentialy lethal situations...
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
NSEMN8R 0
Quote
high canopy, cloud, tumble on exit, other flyer in the air (who does stick to his flight plan when your new flyer doesnt, and sets up for collision) etc. etc.
All that stuff can happen to a freeflier too. I've seen people trying to learn to fly head down cover HUGE horizontal distances. In fact I'd say that for someone with low jump numbers learning HD flying is way more dangerous than wingsuiting.
But we don't tell them not to freefly. We tell them to get coaching.
QuoteAll that stuff can happen to a freeflier too. I've seen people trying to learn to fly head down cover HUGE horizontal distances. In fact I'd say that for someone with low jump numbers learning HD flying is way more dangerous than wingsuiting.
But we don't tell them not to freefly. We tell them to get coaching.
Very well said.
If he(she?) did not have the suit of his(her) dream I'd recommend some suit like Birdman Impact. They have amazing performance and fun to fly. That can be the closest thing to wing suit flying and they can be in a flock.
I got some flocking with Impact flier in the base. It was great fun and challenge to fly formation with her. Only a snob would not fly with Impact fliers. Who cares about freefall delay and performance if you can flock?
mccordia 73
QuoteIn fact I'd say that for someone with low jump numbers learning HD flying is way more dangerous than wingsuiting.
But we don't tell them not to freefly. We tell them to get coaching.
100% agreed...you tell them to get coaching in their flying, untill they reach the skilllevel where they can safely fly HD, with full awereness of whats happening around them..
Just like I tell someone with barerly any skydiving experience at all to get some more jumps and/or coaching...just not in a wingsuit yet...
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
Hagen 0
NSEMN8R 0
Quoteyou tell them to get coaching in their flying, untill they reach the skilllevel where they can safely fly HD, with full awereness of whats happening around them..
This is weird. I actually agree with you 100% too. That's what any responsible instructor or coach should do.
And if a guy with 100 jumps and a solid sit wants to pay a FF coach to teach him head down, how many FF coaches do you think would tell him to come back when he has 250 jumps because he doesn't have the awareness yet?
Do you think the FF coach is going to worry about Scott's "Butterfly Effect" and what happens when he goes home to practice it at his own DZ? I think most coaches would give the guy a good briefing tell him to stay perpendicular to the line of flight when he tries it alone and explain that he can cover a lot of ground very quickly if hes backsliding or something... take him out the door and hold him upside down so he can feel what it's supposed to feel like and send him on his way hoping he takes the advice about not sliding into other groups.
At least that's what happened to me when I was coming up on 100 jumps. And I doubt anyone would call the guy who taught me irresponsible.
Why is what we're doing now so much more dangerous? I still say that with the right gear and in the right environment, it doesn't have to be.
QuoteAnd if a guy with 100 jumps and a solid sit wants to pay a FF coach to teach him head down, how many FF coaches do you think would tell him to come back when he has 250 jumps because he doesn't have the awareness yet?
Actually, all the really good/respected FF coaches I've met at Elsinore and Perris (I've been to quite a few of their freefly coaching camps) require you to have your sit nailed before they teach you head down. Same with tunnel instructors. Not only do they claim this is a safety thing, but they also recognize that anyone who jumps straight into head down without mastering head up flying is cheating themselves. Their stated opinion, not mine (though I happen to agree).
Yes, group tracking should help in the bacis as well.
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
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