Better Flight Planning

[bodypilot1 0]

I have taken something that was posted in the incidents forum and thought it was appropriate to post here. Please remember good FLIGHT PLANNING is part being qualified to fly a wingsuit. Though this person was uninjured, but the outcome could have been alot worst. Even the off airport landings at my DZ, by a few jumpers, has become an issue with the DZO. Flight planning should be covered extensively during the ws first flight course, and with wind conditions changing everyday, ws pilots should take the time to check the upper winds aloft and not just assume that the pattern will be the same time they exit the plane. Know the DZ your jumping at as well, before putting on a wingsuit, and without knowing the correct flight plan for THAT DZ.

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fasted3

Jumps
License
In sport
: 196
: B 30859
: 2 years
Mar 3, 2008, 2:32 PM

So true. Yesterday I almost became an incident, and one reason it didn't happen is what I've read on these forums. My adventure came about because of landing off, into an area without any really good choices. As I descended the last 200', my mind raced through everything I've read and learned. I assumed it was going to hurt because I had to go between two trees that looked slightly closer together than my canopy, and had just noticed the barbwire fence between them. Just beyond that it really got ugly, but there was room for me if I nailed it. Too late to try for anything else, I might get hurt but I probably won't die if I don't hook it. I heard it here, over and over. OK, comes down to luck and canopy skill, here goes.
Fortunately, I had been working on canopy skills in the air a lot lately – a another result of YOUR good advice – and I believe it made the difference. I made it without a scratch on me or my equipment.
After I stopped shaking, I resolved to let y'all know how much you helped me. Thank you.


fasted3

Jumps
License
In sport
: 196
: B 30859
: 2 years
Mar 3, 2008, 11:20 PM

Yeah, no bad spots in a wingsuit, just bad planning. Note to self: On windy days finish the flight UPWIND of the drop zone. Glad I didn't pay for this lesson with my hide, (feathers?) The thing is that landing off doesn't require a wingsuit, so the lessons that helped the most with this one were more about canopy skills than joyriding. To add another lesson to this that I learned: Landing off can be a lot tougher than I thought. I've done it 6 times, at 4 different drop zones, twice in a WS. Until this last one I had the wrong attitude, which is: there's always a place if you start looking high enough and make a good plan early. I'm here to tell you that it ain't necessarily so. I had plenty of time to pick a good place, just a whole lot of bad places to choose from. You would think I'd know better at my HOME DZ, but it happened. From here on out I will have a lot more respect about this.
I also plan to continue working on canopy skills. I was the guy that didn't plan on ever making a flashy landing, and hadn't spent enough time becoming familiar with my canopy. I got serious about that just in time, because I needed every bit of control I could get, and the moves came almost by themselves. It did take way too much luck, but my chances would have been much worse had I not taken the advice and learning from here. What I'm saying that the system works. The same accidents do keep happening, sure, but telling a new guy that we already discussed that, or just burning them doesn't help. If it's in another thread, put a link to it. When somebody does something stupid, learn from it, talk about it, and be patient. Don't be discouraged. People not getting hurt doesn't get as much attention, but that happens here too, and I appreciate everyone that puts in their 2 cents.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[helxen 0]

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Note to self: On windy days finish the flight UPWIND of the drop zone.

As for myself I made it mandatory for any wingsuit flight. Open in a spot upwind of dz, in case of EP it would be tons easier to track down the canopy in regular landing zone instead of surroundings (forest, rivers, etcetera)

[dragon2 0]

True, and the part about flight planning was the only thing I agreed with in the atmonauti thread.... Some of the atmo flyers we had on our DZ could benefit from a first flight course in that respect

I spent quite a lot of time in my FFC on this subject, and here I think is where some low-jump-number students are sorely lacking awareness, can't do much about that in a classroom you get that mostly by experience. Not saying it's just the low jump numbers, I flew with a wingsuiter once with a few thousand jumps total that flew a 360 for a "pattern" as base and when asked why, replied, "Did I?"

So far, people with reasonable CRW (piloting) experience seem to be the best at navigating

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[sdctlc 0]

The flight planning issue absolutely should be covered in a FFC. It just adds to the fact that following the basic guidelines about jump experience should be followed and will help contribute to success. Though it was pointed out you can not count on jump numbers alone, jump numbers give a better chance for success though..

Actually knowing what you can do and where you can go in a WS is a learned process. You can have thousands of jumps but flying a ws is different in terms of knowing what it can do...

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[DSE 3]

In my FFC, my instructor spent a fair amount of time explaining the flight plan, and we have a basic wingsuit webpage on our DZ site about wingsuiting, flight patterns, etc. When LouDiamond repeated my FFC in Eloy, same thing...lots of time spent discussing the flight pattern, and then during the larger flock jumps, I also learned a lot about understanding the importance. James looking directly in my eye saying "Some of you lower-number jumpers might wanna consider..." conveyed a fairly strong message that sticks with me on each jump.

[fasted3 0]

My FFI did stress navigation skills, and also told me that I wasn't very good at that part and needed to work on it. Maybe now I will get it, but if if I don't, it won't be because of not being taught, warned or advised. I wrote that it's not necessary to fly a WS to land off, but it sure makes it easier, and I'm going to be trying a lot harder to not do it any more. The first part of learning is admitting that I screwed up, and I know better than anybody the series of bad decisions that led to this screw up, and have become highly motivated to not do it again.
Any advice regarding navigation would be great to hear, but I suspect is one of the harder things to get specific about. Your thoughts are very welcome about it anyway.

But what do I know?

[pattersd 0]

One really good thing to know is, the runway length, since we are usually in sight of it. you can use that as a measuring stick, even on the first flight at a new DZ. Especially if you know about how far you can fly in the altitude you have available.

[kallend 1,635]

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In my FFC, my instructor spent a fair amount of time explaining the flight plan, and we have a basic wingsuit webpage on our DZ site about wingsuiting, flight patterns, etc. When LouDiamond repeated my FFC in Eloy, same thing...lots of time spent discussing the flight pattern, and then during the larger flock jumps, I also learned a lot about understanding the importance. James looking directly in my eye saying "Some of you lower-number jumpers might wanna consider..." conveyed a fairly strong message that sticks with me on each jump.

Well, I have been in flocks led by very well known WS organizers, who post here and are generally well respected, that ended up with some or all of the flock (including the organizer) landing off on account of not looking down enough (one of them habitually looks up). Me, I like to look at the ground from time to time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[fasted3 0]

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One really good thing to know is, the runway length, since we are usually in sight of it. you can use that as a measuring stick, even on the first flight at a new DZ. Especially if you know about how far you can fly in the altitude you have available.

Very good advice, thanks

But what do I know?

[chrisgray 0]

Yes, indeed this is a very important skill to teach.

The most important things for a student to demonstrate on a FFC jump is
1: Clean Exit
2: Proper Navigation and Flight Pattern
3: Clean Deployment

If these are not demonstrated then the student SHOULD NOT be cleared to do self supervised WS jumps.

WSI-6 / PFI-55
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray

[peggs82 0]

Instructions for opening up-wind:

1. On ground-note direction of windsock
2. In air-fly that direction!



Kidding.... Luckily at zhills we are blessed with many an out, and a huuuuugggggeeee airport if we screw up! At Xkeys, the situation is a bit different.

Navigation is key. As I said, make sure to take note before EVERY jump at the winds. Often, they will shift, and what was once up-wind is no longer so "up"....

Much like spotting, this is a skill that must be developed. Self supervised WS jumps are particuarly dangerous for a low experience pilot without any other WS'ers to assist. Much of what you know about spotting must be applied to your flight plan. Taking into account winds aloft, and your actual position over the ground.

Directional control is a must, however. If you cannot fly in a straight line, you should seek more instruction.

[fasted3 0]

I agree that it would be better for me to fly with others, and will be happy when there are other birds at my DZ. I saw the possible risks of flying alone, and have kept my prime consideration the safety of other jumpers. I can fly a straight line and go where I want to. My flights start by following the plane, which makes a left hand dive after I get out. When I'm about ½ mile from jump run I turn left and begin my downwind leg. If I'm going too fast I'll curve it out away from the DZ. Usually this works, but since it was really windy I overshot the downwind part on this flight, even though I started it miles away from the DZ. At that point I wasn't sure what to do, although with the benefit of not flying over the ground at 100 mph, it seems obvious now to just turn around or deploy. The problem with turning around was that I make pretty wide turns and didn't want to go over the DZ, possibly endangering others, or go the other way and get stuck out there. I didn't deploy because I was having too much fun, and I'm an idiot.
Well, enough making excuses for myself. My next plan is to head off for some much needed coaching. Look out Zephyrhills, here I come. I'm really looking forward to meeting more of you in person at the upcoming Zflock.

But what do I know?

[bigbearfng 9]

One thing I havn't seen mentioned here-
Please talk to the pilot! It's not just to make sure he knows your flight plan, but in places where there are parallel jump runs being flown it becomes VERY important!

[LouDiamond 1]

My how the time flies (no pun intended). I did a search on the topic as it has been discussed before and I knew there was a link to the paper I wrote on it, but it turns out that was 5 years ago and the link is now inactive. In light of that and the continualy growing group of people new to wingsuiting, here is that article again for your reading pleasure and safety.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[phoenixlpr 0]

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The most important things for a student to demonstrate on a FFC jump is
1: Clean Exit
2: Proper Navigation and Flight Pattern
3: Clean Deployment

If these are not demonstrated then the student SHOULD NOT be cleared to do self supervised WS jumps.

I'd add one more:
Its nice to know when to call off because of the weather/visibility conditions.
Jumping with clear sky is rather easy. I've landed out once because there were 2 layers of clouds and I've found myself a bit futher and I could not fly back.
I've decided to land with the plan when I got overcasted next time.

[bodypilot1 0]

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My how the time flies (no pun intended). I did a search on the topic as it has been discussed before and I knew there was a link to the paper I wrote on it, but it turns out that was 5 years ago and the link is now inactive. In light of that and the continualy growing group of people new to wingsuiting, here is that article again for your reading pleasure and safety.

Scott

The link you posted does explain flight pattern very well, it does not even touch on winds aloft. The pattern a pilot takes may be similar to what you have discribed, but pilots need to take the upper winds into consideration, and may need to modify the pattern abit to make it back to the DZ.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Zeemax 0]

Agreed.

In addition, 2-5 seconds up the line of flight may not be anywhere near enough if there are strong head winds.

I know this paper is aimed at beginner pilots, but I find now, when working on smaller flocks with more experienced flyers, we will often fly just off the line of flight straight out of the door, then include one tighter turn of 160 deg or so, then fly back - A pattern not to disimilar to a narrow V - allowing us more stright line working time.

Obviously in this instance, the turn is dependant on what the winds are doing up top.

Also not covered, but I think should be shared - If you're making a wingsuit jump, make sure you let manifest know you are. Especially if you are at a DZ, like many of those in the UK, that will count canopies.

If they don't know you're flying a wingsuit, and will likely open in a place they're not expecting, you could cause quite a bit of panick when they count one less canopy than they're expecting.

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[chrisgray 0]

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The most important things for a student to demonstrate on a FFC jump is
1: Clean Exit
2: Proper Navigation and Flight Pattern
3: Clean Deployment

If these are not demonstrated then the student SHOULD NOT be cleared to do self supervised WS jumps.

I'd add one more:
Its nice to know when to call off because of the weather/visibility conditions.
Jumping with clear sky is rather easy. I've landed out once because there were 2 layers of clouds and I've found myself a bit futher and I could not fly back.
I've decided to land with the plan when I got overcasted next time.

I agree with your additions in regards to a new WS pilot who has been cleared by an instructor for self supervision. But on a FFC or repeated jumps before they are cleared it is the instructors responsibility to make these decisions and communicate with the pilot. I feel it is best to not overwhelm the student with these things on their first WS jump. Introduce those on the following jumps once they demonstrate the 3 basics I listed.

WSI-6 / PFI-55
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray

[Kunstrasen 0]

As mentioned make always sure manifest knows you are doing a WS jump.

This will become really, really important if you are at a place with more than one airplane (big DZ or boogie). Especially if the planes are fast. We had the experiance (even telling mainfest) that jumper form next! load where opening at the same time we did. Let them understand you have a long freefall time and they need longer plane separation!

[Zeemax 0]

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The most important things for a student to demonstrate on a FFC jump is
1: Clean Exit
2: Proper Navigation and Flight Pattern
3: Clean Deployment

If these are not demonstrated then the student SHOULD NOT be cleared to do self supervised WS jumps.

I'd add one more:
Its nice to know when to call off because of the weather/visibility conditions.
Jumping with clear sky is rather easy. I've landed out once because there were 2 layers of clouds and I've found myself a bit futher and I could not fly back.
I've decided to land with the plan when I got overcasted next time.

I agree with your additions in regards to a new WS pilot who has been cleared by an instructor for self supervision. But on a FFC or repeated jumps before they are cleared it is the instructors responsibility to make these decisions and communicate with the pilot. I feel it is best to not overwhelm the student with these things on their first WS jump. Introduce those on the following jumps once they demonstrate the 3 basics I listed.

I disagree.

You're not talking about a first time skydiver here. The people taking an FFC, *should* be an experienced skydiver with at least 200 jumps.

Yes, I understand they are already taking on a lot of new information, but why shouldn't they get into the habbit of things like telling the pilot they're on a load from jump one?

If they forget, you're there to make sure the pilot still gets told. Job done.

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[L_M 0]

It happend to me as well on my 15th WS flight, I didn't plan my flight pattern at all and ended up above the town.

I landed in a very small garden, it was my only option so i had my sights on it when I was 2500 feet in the air with bad winds.

It went like this.
1) I flew above two trees that were pretty close,
2) Noticed a powerline under me (above a garden, what the hell),
3) So I went FUCK and without hesitation I hooked a low right turn,
4) Saw a straight tree line in front of me and hooked an even lower left turn,
5) Landed on my side, completely absorbing the shock over my whole body (before impact the thought "this will probably hurt but I hope I'm not going to break anything" went trough my mind),
6) Got straight up checked my shit and I was A OKay, I looked up at the sky thinking "not only is this garden small as a peanut, the trees and powerline around the garden are as high as 4 meters"

I was happy the way I handeld it, so much is comming at you in such a short time and it's one deccision after another. But it's just as much LUCK as it is handling the situations, there can be so many unfourseen obstacles (if you see them to late or react to slow it can be a very ugly situation)

Planning the flight is SO important and out landings can get you killed. That would suck balls, dropping dead in someones garden. Plan the jump, land on the DZ and have fun.

[Zeemax 0]

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So I went FUCK and without hesitation I hooked a low right turn,
4) Saw a straight tree line in front of me and hooked an even lower left turn

I was happy the way I handeld it

Glad you lived, but I really don't think all of the above should appear in the same post

Low turns kill m'kay.

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[DSE 3]

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I was happy the way I handeld it, so much is comming at you in such a short time and it's one deccision after another. But it's just as much LUCK as it is handling the situations, there can be so many unfourseen obstacles (if you see them to late or react to slow it can be a very ugly situation)
.

One unique aspect with my brand of skydiving; the more I think, the more experiences I have, and the more I talk with others that have a longer history, I continue to become more and more LUCKY.

[bodypilot1 0]

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I feel it is best to not overwhelm the student with these things on their first WS jump. Introduce those on the following jumps once they demonstrate the 3 basics I listed.

I'm going to completely agree with Zeemax here. If it overwhelms the student with the responsibility to tell the pilot there are wingsuits on board, or if they should exit or not when there is bad visibility, your student is clearly NOT ready to fly a wingsuit.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[MarkM 0]

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The problem with turning around was that I make pretty wide turns and didn't want to go over the DZ, possibly endangering others, or go the other way and get stuck out there.

When you're on the load get into the habit of seeing who else is doing what and learn how that creates canopy traffic over the DZ. Like if it's just you, some FFers and RW guys who are all opening under 4k, they're not going to be in your airspace. If you see 3 tandems on the load, then you'll know that 3 very large canopies will be in the DZ airspace and if you have to navigate there, you'll know what to expect.

Generally canopies are stupid easy to spot and avoid. The main danger in flying near them is that it scares canopy pilots that've never flown a wingsuit before, which can create DZ drama.