bmoore21184 0 #1 October 30, 2003 I just bought my own rig and was practicing packing at home and broke a couple bands. I didnt have any extra so I ordered some. Thinking I was ordering the right size I got them today and they are smaller than the ones on my rig (1.25 X 3/8). I have micro-line by the way. Should I replace all of the larger bands with the smaller ones or send them back for bands of the same size that are on my rig? I am pretty sure I shouldnt just replace the ones that broke with smaller ones, unequal tension right? Or am i off the mark with that? Anyways any help would be great. Thanks. B Moore 'Turbulence is a bitch' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RTB 0 #2 October 30, 2003 I would use the small ones for all stows. Except maybe the ones that go through the grommets (if you need them to be longer to close the bag more easily.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggersam 0 #3 October 30, 2003 First off, unequal tension side-to-side is bad (m'kay..). That could result in the bag spinning as it deploys. Personally, I use the larger bands on my locking stows and the smaller ones on the rest. The longer bands on the lockings stows seem to deal with the grommets better (ie. not too tight) and the lines are bulkier at that point due to the cascades. The smaller bands grip the lower stows better. I would ask a rigger in your area to actually take a look at your system to evaluate which bands were best for your canopy/bag/container combination. But, in general, smaller bands are best for microline. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #4 October 30, 2003 I have microlines on my Raven. I've had much less trouble with broken bands since I converted to the little ones like you've bought. It may take you a while to get the hang of doing the locking stows, especially if the canopy is a tight fit in the bag. It's worth it, IMHO. Change them all. Periodically, pull a new one out and compare the 'stretch force' against the ones installed on the bag. Now and again I change them all and retire the old ones to duties like tying up computer cables, etc. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #5 October 30, 2003 Most people I've seen will use large bands for ALL stows and will double-wrap lines south of the cascades. I've been experimenting with double wrapping all of my stows with large bands and have had smooth, consistent openings. I've basically thrown away my small bands. I've heard people state that having mixed bands can cause the bag to wobble more on deployment, I'm not sure how much truth there is to that though. -R You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firediver 0 #6 October 30, 2003 I use large ones, single wrap on the locking stows and double wrapped on the others....no problems... Skydiving isn't scary;...but clowns...CLOWNS are scary! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #7 October 30, 2003 I heard double wrapping is a good invite to baglock. Any truth behind this? Intuitively I think double wrapping bands is a BAD idea. I think it'd be a lot harder for the band to break/snap (what its intended to do if it doesnt release smoothly) while double wrapped. Comments? --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudd 0 #8 October 30, 2003 I've been given two pieces of advice by packers: - Dont double stow rubber bands that goes through the grommets. - Use same size rubberbands. I use small rubber bands and single stow them. Never have any problems with that. I allways make sure my two locking stows are fresh, and change them berfore they break. The rest of the bands I only change when I absolutely need to, or they brake. Personally I find it much faster to single stow, and I think it's less likely to get a baglock. There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #9 October 30, 2003 Now if you think that your stows have anything to do with your opening smoothness, you are wrong. They will only prevent line dump.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #10 October 30, 2003 QuoteI heard double wrapping is a good invite to baglock. Any truth behind this? Intuitively I think double wrapping bands is a BAD idea. I think it'd be a lot harder for the band to break/snap (what its intended to do if it doesnt release smoothly) while double wrapped. Comments? My one bag lock, on a tandem, was becaue the rubber bands had been double wrapped. There is no need to make stows that tight. Small rubber bands or micro-line tube stows on micro line work great. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #11 October 30, 2003 Quote- Use same size rubberbands. It doesn't matter if you use large bands for the locking stows and small bands for the others. Or if you use large bands only on the locking stows that get stretched more and small bands on the other locking stows. What matters is to have the proper holding/retention force.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #12 October 30, 2003 I use large Skybandz for my 4 locking stowes and I use Tube stowes for my 4 other bands....none of these are tight except the locking stowes....wrapped ONCE. no need to tighten your stowes that much to control openings. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #13 October 30, 2003 QuotePost: I use large Skybandz for my 4 locking stowes and I use Tube stowes for my 4 other bands.... ***skybands and tube stows won't break if they need to.I've talked to many riggers and experienced skydivers who say they are much more likely to cause baglock.-----Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 94 #14 October 31, 2003 ...and rubber bands can easily break causing bag dump. If you really stretch a rubber band for a locking stow, the amount of extra force required to break it may be quite small - this means bag dump is more likely in my opinion. I make my own tube stows from the bulk silicone tubing you can find in the fishing/sporting goods section of any department store (really cheap per foot). Use a pair of needlenose pliers to turn one end over about 5mm. Insert the closed pliers into the other end and open the pliers to expand the tubing. Now take a pair of hemostats (sp?) or similar instrument used for other purposes to grab the turned over end of the tubing and insert it into the opened end. Carefully slide the tubing off the pliers and you're done. No need to glue anything. If using bands is so important to avoid baglocks, why don't reserve freebags use them anymore (besides some racers?) I use tube stows for the middle 2 of my 4 locking stows. I find that they are not easy to use when they need to be really small, and so I use rubber bands for the rest I'll take risk from the strength of a tube stow over the risk of the lack of strength of a band on the crucial locking stows anyday.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites webracer 0 #15 October 31, 2003 I use small rubberbands exclusively for all stows, but I do jump smaller canopies. I also replace all the rubberbands when one breaks or every 25-30 jumps or so (one weekend). Rubberband integrity is cheap insurance for good, consistent openings. If you jump larger canopies, I would use the larger ones for the locking stows (grommets).Troy I am now free to exercise my downward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #16 October 31, 2003 line dump or bag dump? line dump is a fallicy.You can free stow your lines and still have nice openings.The ones that really count are your locking stows.They should be able to break if necessary.If you have a locking stow that hangs up, you have bag lock.-Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 94 #17 October 31, 2003 I know the difference between line dump and bag dump. Rubber bands will not always break. Bag locks can happen with them also. As I said, I will take the risk of a tube stow not breaking over a rubber band breaking and causing bag dump anyday. I am not the only one to conclude that this tradeoff is a good one.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bmoore21184 0 #18 October 31, 2003 Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I talked to the guy at Rigs and Things and he is going to let me exchange the small ones for the large ones. Talk about good customer service, I emailed him tonight at 7 mnt. time (they are in FL) and got a response from Roy within the hour. Thanks again for all of your suggestions. B Moore 'Turbulence is a bitch' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #19 October 31, 2003 Mr tower rat....the three bag locks I have personaly witnessed were all with RUBBER BANDS!!! a poor and sloppy job of placing the lines in there stowes is a huge culpret of this. I am anal to a T on my packing and placement of my lines. if you are carefull this is a non issue. but like I said before if you pack like crap then your asking for trouble no matter what kind of stowe bands you use...if you use any at all. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
sundevil777 94 #14 October 31, 2003 ...and rubber bands can easily break causing bag dump. If you really stretch a rubber band for a locking stow, the amount of extra force required to break it may be quite small - this means bag dump is more likely in my opinion. I make my own tube stows from the bulk silicone tubing you can find in the fishing/sporting goods section of any department store (really cheap per foot). Use a pair of needlenose pliers to turn one end over about 5mm. Insert the closed pliers into the other end and open the pliers to expand the tubing. Now take a pair of hemostats (sp?) or similar instrument used for other purposes to grab the turned over end of the tubing and insert it into the opened end. Carefully slide the tubing off the pliers and you're done. No need to glue anything. If using bands is so important to avoid baglocks, why don't reserve freebags use them anymore (besides some racers?) I use tube stows for the middle 2 of my 4 locking stows. I find that they are not easy to use when they need to be really small, and so I use rubber bands for the rest I'll take risk from the strength of a tube stow over the risk of the lack of strength of a band on the crucial locking stows anyday.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
webracer 0 #15 October 31, 2003 I use small rubberbands exclusively for all stows, but I do jump smaller canopies. I also replace all the rubberbands when one breaks or every 25-30 jumps or so (one weekend). Rubberband integrity is cheap insurance for good, consistent openings. If you jump larger canopies, I would use the larger ones for the locking stows (grommets).Troy I am now free to exercise my downward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #16 October 31, 2003 line dump or bag dump? line dump is a fallicy.You can free stow your lines and still have nice openings.The ones that really count are your locking stows.They should be able to break if necessary.If you have a locking stow that hangs up, you have bag lock.-Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #17 October 31, 2003 I know the difference between line dump and bag dump. Rubber bands will not always break. Bag locks can happen with them also. As I said, I will take the risk of a tube stow not breaking over a rubber band breaking and causing bag dump anyday. I am not the only one to conclude that this tradeoff is a good one.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmoore21184 0 #18 October 31, 2003 Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I talked to the guy at Rigs and Things and he is going to let me exchange the small ones for the large ones. Talk about good customer service, I emailed him tonight at 7 mnt. time (they are in FL) and got a response from Roy within the hour. Thanks again for all of your suggestions. B Moore 'Turbulence is a bitch' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #19 October 31, 2003 Mr tower rat....the three bag locks I have personaly witnessed were all with RUBBER BANDS!!! a poor and sloppy job of placing the lines in there stowes is a huge culpret of this. I am anal to a T on my packing and placement of my lines. if you are carefull this is a non issue. but like I said before if you pack like crap then your asking for trouble no matter what kind of stowe bands you use...if you use any at all. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
