Professor 0 #126 November 21, 2006 Quotewhat size lens were the people on the ground using? I believe she's rocking 500mm or 600mm Canon IS L glass. Spendy. I don't think she's using an extender. Little know fact: The white trail isn't smoke. It's actually a vapor trail forming because of all the heat generated by Voodew's ego as he passes through the air. True story. Ted Like a giddy school girl. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #127 November 21, 2006 Nice one ..................prick!!!! Jealousy ain't it a bitch The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #128 November 21, 2006 QuoteJealousy ain't it a bitch Hey you're right Ted... I see the "smoke" again!www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #129 November 24, 2006 That was amazingly funny, Ted! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
verticalflyer 11 #130 November 24, 2006 Quote Pretty useless though, concidering my whole body-postion there and the speed at which the jump was going down..holding grippers doesnt make a lot of sense (max-performance wise..but I tend to use them like flaps/breaks on an airplane-wing..) reply] Just a thought, dont drop one whilst using them as airbrakes as it may put you into linetwists rapidly. I take it this is during deployment, each to there own but i prefer to be unzipping getting ready for anything funky and getting on the rear risers for control or aviodance in those few secs. Cheers FDont just talk about it, Do it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #131 November 25, 2006 QuoteJust a thought, dont drop one whilst using them as airbrakes as it may put you into linetwists rapidly. I was mostly talking about during normal flight...(about the use of grippers, when not using them for max flight) I think the video I posted the link to is the only one where I went for the grippers (as a video-whorish thing, the lead-flyer/rabbit was jumping a camera facing backward...) Ive usualy unzipped my arms before my slider is down.. Still nothing like the unnamed Dutch flyer that somehow manages to unzip before pulling..but thats a whole different storyJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #132 November 25, 2006 QuoteStill nothing like the unnamed Dutch flyer that somehow manages to unzip before pulling He's not the only one. I met a guy at Summerfest 2 years ago who was/is a swooper when the swoop tour was there. That guy also claimed he liked to unzip his arms before pulling."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Martini 0 #133 November 25, 2006 We have a local flyer that always unzips his wings before pulling. He jumps a JVX eightysomething and throws very high. It's a trip to watch the routine.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Costyn 0 #134 November 27, 2006 QuoteI believe she's rocking 500mm or 600mm Canon IS L glass. Spendy. I don't think she's using an extender. Damn... those lenses are expensive! You could buy a nice car from that kind of money... Very cool though...Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prawn_Star 0 #135 June 7, 2013 Hey there, I am glad there is a thread to discuss this. I have seen some very disturbing things going on in wingsuiting and I am only just about to begin wingsuiting myself. That is if I even get the chance. Some seriously retarded people have been fucking up, and these are not just simple mistakes that anyone could make. I am talking day one stuff like forgetting your altitude, going low, Vigil fire and bi plane ride. Then post it on facebook saying it was a successful weekend. I am in Australia where you need 200 jumps to wingsuit. I have taken my time, done shitloads of research and asked the guys who have done it fro years. I cannot wait to give it a go but if people keep doing these outright retarded things that are not expected from a D license jumper with 200+ jumps, then the APF might up our required jump numbers like Sweden. Seriously, if your a D license jumper and you loose alti awareness to the degree you get a vigil fire and bi plane mal, then you either need a 50-100 jump ban from wingsuiting so you can revisit some basics or you should just get out of the sport. Alti awareness is day 1 stuff. I sorry tor ant but I am really pissed off about what people are doing to tarnish the rep of the sport and wingsuiting, these people who should have auto darwinated by now but sadly haven't are busy killing other people i.e. the Picton abortion of an incident. I am not trying to ruffle feathers but it is in all our interests to discipline these idiots before they make things tougher on the rest of us. Imagine if your at 300+ jumps, a good wingsuiter and then all of a sudden the op regs change and you need 500 jumps to fly. How pissed off would you be getting told you cant do what you have been doing so well at all a long just because of a few retarded imbeciles? I really hope it doesn't come to that, I hope we just sanction temp bans on people who first time offend and perm bans on those who just don't get it. We shouldn't punish everyone. I know this is a bit of a rant and I am sorry but I am just worried I am not going to get the chance to even try something so awesome just because of a few idiots ignoring basic common sense/day 1 AFF1 concepts. All the best guys. Blue skies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 0 #136 June 7, 2013 Most of your concern is warranted, however I am curious at the claim that a Vigil would go off while flying a wingsuit. Do you have more info on this incident?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prawn_Star 0 #137 June 7, 2013 The111Most of your concern is warranted, however I am curious at the claim that a Vigil would go off while flying a wingsuit. Do you have more info on this incident? Yes I have heard that it is unlikely however i have known of people setting on the wrong mode and swooping and boom 2 canopies out. All i have in this instance to go on.is the individual's words bragging on faceook saying he lost awareness and went low. I was at a boogie in perth that ended june 3rd, im normally jumping at york but this happened further north on the coast during the boogie. I am not going to say names because its not right to on here neither will i mention dz names because thats not fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prawn_Star 0 #138 June 8, 2013 Prawn_StarHey there, I am glad there is a thread to discuss this. I have seen some very disturbing things going on in wingsuiting and I am only just about to begin wingsuiting myself. That is if I even get the chance. Some seriously retarded people have been fucking up, and these are not just simple mistakes that anyone could make. I am talking day one stuff like forgetting your altitude, going low, Vigil fire and bi plane ride. Then post it on facebook saying it was a successful weekend. I am in Australia where you need 200 jumps to wingsuit. I have taken my time, done shitloads of research and asked the guys who have done it fro years. I cannot wait to give it a go but if people keep doing these outright retarded things that are not expected from a D license jumper with 200+ jumps, then the APF might up our required jump numbers like Sweden. Seriously, if your a D license jumper and you loose alti awareness to the degree you get a vigil fire and bi plane mal, then you either need a 50-100 jump ban from wingsuiting so you can revisit some basics or you should just get out of the sport. Alti awareness is day 1 stuff. I sorry tor ant but I am really pissed off about what people are doing to tarnish the rep of the sport and wingsuiting, these people who should have auto darwinated by now but sadly haven't are busy killing other people i.e. the Picton abortion of an incident. I am not trying to ruffle feathers but it is in all our interests to discipline these idiots before they make things tougher on the rest of us. Imagine if your at 300+ jumps, a good wingsuiter and then all of a sudden the op regs change and you need 500 jumps to fly. How pissed off would you be getting told you cant do what you have been doing so well at all a long just because of a few retarded imbeciles? I really hope it doesn't come to that, I hope we just sanction temp bans on people who first time offend and perm bans on those who just don't get it. We shouldn't punish everyone. I know this is a bit of a rant and I am sorry but I am just worried I am not going to get the chance to even try something so awesome just because of a few idiots ignoring basic common sense/day 1 AFF1 concepts. All the best guys. Blue skies. My bad when mentioning Picton. I thought I had better correct my typo, it wasn't someone killing someone else, he actually killed himself and yes this is sad to have happened. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #139 June 8, 2013 I think wingsuiting has one big problem compared to other disciplines. We are focussed too much on gear, and too little on skills. In FF or RW there is a very set structure regarding the steps people need to take to get up to the skill levels needed to safely jump in bigger groups. In wingsuit, it seems like having a suit is often deemed enough. Also regarding the incident/accident you mention, how often do you see a person with 5 FreeFly jumps and no formation experience taken onto a 20 way? And thats outside of the actual details on that particular incident (failed FFC etc). Bad judgement calls on the people organizing. Where in any other discipline, going low or not getting to a group end with that person getting coaching/training to get better. In wingsuiting often the advise to 'get this or that suit' is given instead. If you suck in freefly/rw, get coaching, if you suck in a wingsuit, buy a bigger one. If people would focus more on individual flying skills in 2 ways, vs the whole numbers game of who flies the biggest group of people through the sky we'd see a much more controlled and safe type of flying resorting more to building of skills. And to a much lesser degree turn the discipline into a carnaval act that revolves around low skilled skydivers doing dangerous stuff in suits and formations way beyond their experience level. The direction of wingsuiting? I hope one that focussed more on skills, and less on how big the wings you fly are (and if you should get even bigger ones). Any modern (smaller) wingsuit can be made to do amazing things in both distance/time performance as wel as (most important) agility. Learn to fly your body!JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WickedWingsuits 0 #140 June 8, 2013 +1 The suit often gets blamed for lack of performance when really the pilot is the issue and the suit is just along for the ride.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #141 June 8, 2013 Fatalities, off landings, loss of altitude awareness causing AAD fires (just happened this weekend again), two outs due to poor rigging (just happened last weekend) also make DZOs leery of what we do. Big suits use to overcoat weak skills are a huge part of the problem, but nowhere near all of the problem. Doing the math as a DZO is pretty easy. Sit down and do it, and you'll quickly realize why wingsuiting doesn't make sense to some DZOs. In terms of good business, it's not a good thing in many locations. Learn to fly your body before upsizing. One would never downsize their canopy under the same progression so many are upsizing their wingsuit... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WickedWingsuits 0 #142 June 8, 2013 DSEOne would never downsize their canopy under the same progression so many are upsizing their wingsuit... I am just reading a thread in incidents about someone that is dead because they downsized their canopy too quickly. I totally agree that one shouldn't downsize too quickly but the problem that is really killing people in our sport is small and aggressive canopies, not wingsuiting. Wingsuiting doesn't fit at some dropzones. Just face that as fact, it isn't the end of the discipline. Off landings don't kill people. However the pressure that some are putting on people to make it to the DZ is what kills people. How anyone loses altitude awareness in a wingsuit is beyond me. I don't know if that person should be skydiving let alone wingsuiting. If I had an AAD save me I would be very happy and then likely hang up my rig. I hope I don't have to be quoted on that some day.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #143 June 8, 2013 WickedWingsuits Off landings don't kill people. However the pressure that some are putting on people to make it to the DZ is what kills people. How anyone loses altitude awareness in a wingsuit is beyond me. I don't know if that person should be skydiving let alone wingsuiting. If I had an AAD save me I would be very happy and then likely hang up my rig. I hope I don't have to be quoted on that some day. Wingsuit off-landings have caused fatalities in the past, and likely will do so again. "Pressure to land on the DZ is killing people?" You're kidding, right? The only legit reason for an off landing is for an emergency. If one can't spot to put oneself on the dropzone on a jump, then wingsuiting likely isn't the best choice of discipline. Most of the 'instructors' out there don't seem to be teaching navigation, understanding spots, tailwinds, and line of flight. That's just plain fucked up. Those kind of ass-clowns, landing people miles away from the DZ, out in the ocean, into military reservations....they're damaging our discipline. It's not a badge of honor to post "Dude, I landed 5 miles away from the DZ." It's a mark of stupid. Most of us have landed off at some point. My favorite off-landing story is when a 47 way went the wrong direction at Pepperell. Homeowners weren't thrilled to see us dropping in. It was stupid. Every off landing in a neighborhood causes concerns in the local community. This can turn into pressure on the DZO to better police his patrons. Quote I totally agree that one shouldn't downsize too quickly but the problem that is really killing people in our sport is small and aggressive canopies, not wingsuiting. Do I understand you feel rapidly upsizing suits is not part of the problem we face in our discipline? We're in complete agreement on an AAD fire. If you're not unconscious or otherwise incapacitated and you have an AAD fire, probably a good time to hang up the gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WickedWingsuits 0 #144 June 8, 2013 Landing off doesn't kill people. Landing off into obstacles is what kills people. Yes, I have seen the pressure of landing on hurt a lot more people than I have seen hurt from landing off. I recall an esteemed wingsuit instructor being very proud of an off landing onto the 50 yard line during a football practice. Remember? Emergency? I already agreed with Jarno on the topic of upsizing too quickly. Edit to add: Don't twist this, I do think people should know how to navigate. It just isn't as deadly as you make out.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #145 June 8, 2013 WickedWingsuits Landing off doesn't kill people. Landing off into obstacles is what kills people. Yes, I have seen the pressure of landing on hurt a lot more people than I have seen hurt from landing off. I recall an esteemed wingsuit instructor being very proud of an off landing onto the 50 yard line during a football practice. Remember? Emergency? I already agreed with Jarno on the topic of upsizing too quickly. Edit to add: Don't twist this, I do think people should know how to navigate. It just isn't as deadly as you make out. Yes, at the time I had around 500 WS jumps, second WS jump after my accident, following someone else. It was stupid. And even more stupid that I (at the time) was proud of landing on the 50 yard line. Do that today, and I'd be grounded from the DZ. I'm not suggesting I've not made mistakes; rather that I've learned from them and realized that the culture I was associating with is not good for our sport. I'm on a DZ where the DZO banned WS for a brief period, simply due to that sort of stupid. Where/when are the several wingsuit off landings where 'a lot more people' were hurt due to an obstacle? The fatalities were not due to hitting an obstacle. We disagree, apparently by quite a bit. I believe that not knowing how to navigate (backflying included) is a very, very basic skill that is part of spotting skill. We are unpowered aircraft with long reach range relative to other skydiving displines. If being "pressured" to land where we're supposed to is "hurting a lot of people," then perhaps they shouldn't be skydiving. "Deadly" isn't the problem. The bigger issue is the drain on DZ resources, community relations, and the stigma that landing off brings to our discipline. It puts us on the DZM/DZO's radar, and not in a positive way. It can get the pilot into conversations with the FAA that they'd rather not have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WickedWingsuits 0 #146 June 8, 2013 Wingsuiters should be able to spot and navigate. 100% agreed. That isn't the same as not landing off. You can land "on" but still navigate through tandems and canopies. Anyways, I think we have another dead horse.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 622 #147 June 9, 2013 We shouldn't have to worry about lost or missing jumpers on every load. We tend to when there are wingies. Seen a fucked up ankle a number of times on lading off. Te pressure to land on the dz or airport is there for every discipline and is in no way unique to wingies. Landing at the dz is not only a good idea, if you can't do so on a regular basis, I would appreciate management asking you to leave. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WickedWingsuits 0 #148 June 9, 2013 normissLanding at the dz is not only a good idea, if you can't do so on a regular basis, I would appreciate management asking you to leave. Agreed. Problem solved at the local level. Sorted.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #149 June 9, 2013 WickedWingsuits***Landing at the dz is not only a good idea, if you can't do so on a regular basis, I would appreciate management asking you to leave. Agreed. Problem solved at the local level. Sorted. Except that earlier, you're exhorting that "pressure to land on the DZ is hurting lots of people." So, which position are you taking this time? Is this another "we've been saying the same thing the whole time, but I've been saying it different than you" conversation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites parachutist 1 #150 June 9, 2013 WickedWingsuits***Landing at the dz is not only a good idea, if you can't do so on a regular basis, I would appreciate management asking you to leave. Agreed. Problem solved at the local level. Sorted. More like Problem diverted to a different local area. Mr Problem goes off thinking he always has bad luck with winds. Next DZ for this guy, and problem still hasn't been sorted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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mccordia 73 #131 November 25, 2006 QuoteJust a thought, dont drop one whilst using them as airbrakes as it may put you into linetwists rapidly. I was mostly talking about during normal flight...(about the use of grippers, when not using them for max flight) I think the video I posted the link to is the only one where I went for the grippers (as a video-whorish thing, the lead-flyer/rabbit was jumping a camera facing backward...) Ive usualy unzipped my arms before my slider is down.. Still nothing like the unnamed Dutch flyer that somehow manages to unzip before pulling..but thats a whole different storyJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #132 November 25, 2006 QuoteStill nothing like the unnamed Dutch flyer that somehow manages to unzip before pulling He's not the only one. I met a guy at Summerfest 2 years ago who was/is a swooper when the swoop tour was there. That guy also claimed he liked to unzip his arms before pulling."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #133 November 25, 2006 We have a local flyer that always unzips his wings before pulling. He jumps a JVX eightysomething and throws very high. It's a trip to watch the routine.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #134 November 27, 2006 QuoteI believe she's rocking 500mm or 600mm Canon IS L glass. Spendy. I don't think she's using an extender. Damn... those lenses are expensive! You could buy a nice car from that kind of money... Very cool though...Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prawn_Star 0 #135 June 7, 2013 Hey there, I am glad there is a thread to discuss this. I have seen some very disturbing things going on in wingsuiting and I am only just about to begin wingsuiting myself. That is if I even get the chance. Some seriously retarded people have been fucking up, and these are not just simple mistakes that anyone could make. I am talking day one stuff like forgetting your altitude, going low, Vigil fire and bi plane ride. Then post it on facebook saying it was a successful weekend. I am in Australia where you need 200 jumps to wingsuit. I have taken my time, done shitloads of research and asked the guys who have done it fro years. I cannot wait to give it a go but if people keep doing these outright retarded things that are not expected from a D license jumper with 200+ jumps, then the APF might up our required jump numbers like Sweden. Seriously, if your a D license jumper and you loose alti awareness to the degree you get a vigil fire and bi plane mal, then you either need a 50-100 jump ban from wingsuiting so you can revisit some basics or you should just get out of the sport. Alti awareness is day 1 stuff. I sorry tor ant but I am really pissed off about what people are doing to tarnish the rep of the sport and wingsuiting, these people who should have auto darwinated by now but sadly haven't are busy killing other people i.e. the Picton abortion of an incident. I am not trying to ruffle feathers but it is in all our interests to discipline these idiots before they make things tougher on the rest of us. Imagine if your at 300+ jumps, a good wingsuiter and then all of a sudden the op regs change and you need 500 jumps to fly. How pissed off would you be getting told you cant do what you have been doing so well at all a long just because of a few retarded imbeciles? I really hope it doesn't come to that, I hope we just sanction temp bans on people who first time offend and perm bans on those who just don't get it. We shouldn't punish everyone. I know this is a bit of a rant and I am sorry but I am just worried I am not going to get the chance to even try something so awesome just because of a few idiots ignoring basic common sense/day 1 AFF1 concepts. All the best guys. Blue skies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #136 June 7, 2013 Most of your concern is warranted, however I am curious at the claim that a Vigil would go off while flying a wingsuit. Do you have more info on this incident?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prawn_Star 0 #137 June 7, 2013 The111Most of your concern is warranted, however I am curious at the claim that a Vigil would go off while flying a wingsuit. Do you have more info on this incident? Yes I have heard that it is unlikely however i have known of people setting on the wrong mode and swooping and boom 2 canopies out. All i have in this instance to go on.is the individual's words bragging on faceook saying he lost awareness and went low. I was at a boogie in perth that ended june 3rd, im normally jumping at york but this happened further north on the coast during the boogie. I am not going to say names because its not right to on here neither will i mention dz names because thats not fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prawn_Star 0 #138 June 8, 2013 Prawn_StarHey there, I am glad there is a thread to discuss this. I have seen some very disturbing things going on in wingsuiting and I am only just about to begin wingsuiting myself. That is if I even get the chance. Some seriously retarded people have been fucking up, and these are not just simple mistakes that anyone could make. I am talking day one stuff like forgetting your altitude, going low, Vigil fire and bi plane ride. Then post it on facebook saying it was a successful weekend. I am in Australia where you need 200 jumps to wingsuit. I have taken my time, done shitloads of research and asked the guys who have done it fro years. I cannot wait to give it a go but if people keep doing these outright retarded things that are not expected from a D license jumper with 200+ jumps, then the APF might up our required jump numbers like Sweden. Seriously, if your a D license jumper and you loose alti awareness to the degree you get a vigil fire and bi plane mal, then you either need a 50-100 jump ban from wingsuiting so you can revisit some basics or you should just get out of the sport. Alti awareness is day 1 stuff. I sorry tor ant but I am really pissed off about what people are doing to tarnish the rep of the sport and wingsuiting, these people who should have auto darwinated by now but sadly haven't are busy killing other people i.e. the Picton abortion of an incident. I am not trying to ruffle feathers but it is in all our interests to discipline these idiots before they make things tougher on the rest of us. Imagine if your at 300+ jumps, a good wingsuiter and then all of a sudden the op regs change and you need 500 jumps to fly. How pissed off would you be getting told you cant do what you have been doing so well at all a long just because of a few retarded imbeciles? I really hope it doesn't come to that, I hope we just sanction temp bans on people who first time offend and perm bans on those who just don't get it. We shouldn't punish everyone. I know this is a bit of a rant and I am sorry but I am just worried I am not going to get the chance to even try something so awesome just because of a few idiots ignoring basic common sense/day 1 AFF1 concepts. All the best guys. Blue skies. My bad when mentioning Picton. I thought I had better correct my typo, it wasn't someone killing someone else, he actually killed himself and yes this is sad to have happened. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #139 June 8, 2013 I think wingsuiting has one big problem compared to other disciplines. We are focussed too much on gear, and too little on skills. In FF or RW there is a very set structure regarding the steps people need to take to get up to the skill levels needed to safely jump in bigger groups. In wingsuit, it seems like having a suit is often deemed enough. Also regarding the incident/accident you mention, how often do you see a person with 5 FreeFly jumps and no formation experience taken onto a 20 way? And thats outside of the actual details on that particular incident (failed FFC etc). Bad judgement calls on the people organizing. Where in any other discipline, going low or not getting to a group end with that person getting coaching/training to get better. In wingsuiting often the advise to 'get this or that suit' is given instead. If you suck in freefly/rw, get coaching, if you suck in a wingsuit, buy a bigger one. If people would focus more on individual flying skills in 2 ways, vs the whole numbers game of who flies the biggest group of people through the sky we'd see a much more controlled and safe type of flying resorting more to building of skills. And to a much lesser degree turn the discipline into a carnaval act that revolves around low skilled skydivers doing dangerous stuff in suits and formations way beyond their experience level. The direction of wingsuiting? I hope one that focussed more on skills, and less on how big the wings you fly are (and if you should get even bigger ones). Any modern (smaller) wingsuit can be made to do amazing things in both distance/time performance as wel as (most important) agility. Learn to fly your body!JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #140 June 8, 2013 +1 The suit often gets blamed for lack of performance when really the pilot is the issue and the suit is just along for the ride.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #141 June 8, 2013 Fatalities, off landings, loss of altitude awareness causing AAD fires (just happened this weekend again), two outs due to poor rigging (just happened last weekend) also make DZOs leery of what we do. Big suits use to overcoat weak skills are a huge part of the problem, but nowhere near all of the problem. Doing the math as a DZO is pretty easy. Sit down and do it, and you'll quickly realize why wingsuiting doesn't make sense to some DZOs. In terms of good business, it's not a good thing in many locations. Learn to fly your body before upsizing. One would never downsize their canopy under the same progression so many are upsizing their wingsuit... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #142 June 8, 2013 DSEOne would never downsize their canopy under the same progression so many are upsizing their wingsuit... I am just reading a thread in incidents about someone that is dead because they downsized their canopy too quickly. I totally agree that one shouldn't downsize too quickly but the problem that is really killing people in our sport is small and aggressive canopies, not wingsuiting. Wingsuiting doesn't fit at some dropzones. Just face that as fact, it isn't the end of the discipline. Off landings don't kill people. However the pressure that some are putting on people to make it to the DZ is what kills people. How anyone loses altitude awareness in a wingsuit is beyond me. I don't know if that person should be skydiving let alone wingsuiting. If I had an AAD save me I would be very happy and then likely hang up my rig. I hope I don't have to be quoted on that some day.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #143 June 8, 2013 WickedWingsuits Off landings don't kill people. However the pressure that some are putting on people to make it to the DZ is what kills people. How anyone loses altitude awareness in a wingsuit is beyond me. I don't know if that person should be skydiving let alone wingsuiting. If I had an AAD save me I would be very happy and then likely hang up my rig. I hope I don't have to be quoted on that some day. Wingsuit off-landings have caused fatalities in the past, and likely will do so again. "Pressure to land on the DZ is killing people?" You're kidding, right? The only legit reason for an off landing is for an emergency. If one can't spot to put oneself on the dropzone on a jump, then wingsuiting likely isn't the best choice of discipline. Most of the 'instructors' out there don't seem to be teaching navigation, understanding spots, tailwinds, and line of flight. That's just plain fucked up. Those kind of ass-clowns, landing people miles away from the DZ, out in the ocean, into military reservations....they're damaging our discipline. It's not a badge of honor to post "Dude, I landed 5 miles away from the DZ." It's a mark of stupid. Most of us have landed off at some point. My favorite off-landing story is when a 47 way went the wrong direction at Pepperell. Homeowners weren't thrilled to see us dropping in. It was stupid. Every off landing in a neighborhood causes concerns in the local community. This can turn into pressure on the DZO to better police his patrons. Quote I totally agree that one shouldn't downsize too quickly but the problem that is really killing people in our sport is small and aggressive canopies, not wingsuiting. Do I understand you feel rapidly upsizing suits is not part of the problem we face in our discipline? We're in complete agreement on an AAD fire. If you're not unconscious or otherwise incapacitated and you have an AAD fire, probably a good time to hang up the gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #144 June 8, 2013 Landing off doesn't kill people. Landing off into obstacles is what kills people. Yes, I have seen the pressure of landing on hurt a lot more people than I have seen hurt from landing off. I recall an esteemed wingsuit instructor being very proud of an off landing onto the 50 yard line during a football practice. Remember? Emergency? I already agreed with Jarno on the topic of upsizing too quickly. Edit to add: Don't twist this, I do think people should know how to navigate. It just isn't as deadly as you make out.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #145 June 8, 2013 WickedWingsuits Landing off doesn't kill people. Landing off into obstacles is what kills people. Yes, I have seen the pressure of landing on hurt a lot more people than I have seen hurt from landing off. I recall an esteemed wingsuit instructor being very proud of an off landing onto the 50 yard line during a football practice. Remember? Emergency? I already agreed with Jarno on the topic of upsizing too quickly. Edit to add: Don't twist this, I do think people should know how to navigate. It just isn't as deadly as you make out. Yes, at the time I had around 500 WS jumps, second WS jump after my accident, following someone else. It was stupid. And even more stupid that I (at the time) was proud of landing on the 50 yard line. Do that today, and I'd be grounded from the DZ. I'm not suggesting I've not made mistakes; rather that I've learned from them and realized that the culture I was associating with is not good for our sport. I'm on a DZ where the DZO banned WS for a brief period, simply due to that sort of stupid. Where/when are the several wingsuit off landings where 'a lot more people' were hurt due to an obstacle? The fatalities were not due to hitting an obstacle. We disagree, apparently by quite a bit. I believe that not knowing how to navigate (backflying included) is a very, very basic skill that is part of spotting skill. We are unpowered aircraft with long reach range relative to other skydiving displines. If being "pressured" to land where we're supposed to is "hurting a lot of people," then perhaps they shouldn't be skydiving. "Deadly" isn't the problem. The bigger issue is the drain on DZ resources, community relations, and the stigma that landing off brings to our discipline. It puts us on the DZM/DZO's radar, and not in a positive way. It can get the pilot into conversations with the FAA that they'd rather not have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #146 June 8, 2013 Wingsuiters should be able to spot and navigate. 100% agreed. That isn't the same as not landing off. You can land "on" but still navigate through tandems and canopies. Anyways, I think we have another dead horse.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #147 June 9, 2013 We shouldn't have to worry about lost or missing jumpers on every load. We tend to when there are wingies. Seen a fucked up ankle a number of times on lading off. Te pressure to land on the dz or airport is there for every discipline and is in no way unique to wingies. Landing at the dz is not only a good idea, if you can't do so on a regular basis, I would appreciate management asking you to leave. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #148 June 9, 2013 normissLanding at the dz is not only a good idea, if you can't do so on a regular basis, I would appreciate management asking you to leave. Agreed. Problem solved at the local level. Sorted.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #149 June 9, 2013 WickedWingsuits***Landing at the dz is not only a good idea, if you can't do so on a regular basis, I would appreciate management asking you to leave. Agreed. Problem solved at the local level. Sorted. Except that earlier, you're exhorting that "pressure to land on the DZ is hurting lots of people." So, which position are you taking this time? Is this another "we've been saying the same thing the whole time, but I've been saying it different than you" conversation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 1 #150 June 9, 2013 WickedWingsuits***Landing at the dz is not only a good idea, if you can't do so on a regular basis, I would appreciate management asking you to leave. Agreed. Problem solved at the local level. Sorted. More like Problem diverted to a different local area. Mr Problem goes off thinking he always has bad luck with winds. Next DZ for this guy, and problem still hasn't been sorted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
