PixieUK 0 #1 November 5, 2015 I'm assuming wearing a rig makes a difference as it will catch some air in sit-fly. Is it easier in the sky? I have a great tunnel coach and he assures me I'm making good progress but after an hour of tunnel time, I'm barely controlling my back fly and he still hasn't let go of me in sit fly. We are working at 75-80% tunnel power as the idea is to get me used to head down wind speeds very early on. I made the mistake of defaulting to belly flying when one back fly move went very wrong (remember that "hard arch" from AFF, lol) and quickly discovered why that's a very bad idea in a tunnel that's wound up to freefly head-down speeds when I would normally be wearing lead at 50% power I have another hour booked over the next couple of weeks but it seems incredibly slow progress compared with belly-flying. I guess there are a lot more variables. I can't try anything out in the air just yet as the weather has been awful plus it's getting pretty cold and miserable here. But I'm hoping to be able to try some of this out before the end of the month (my rig is ff friendly). Also, is it normal to find back-fly harder than sit-fly? In my sit-fly, I can maintain my arms, upper body, back arch etc and am getting the feel of where my lower legs and feet need to be. In back-fly, it still seems pretty random which bit goes wrong and trying to figure it out and correct one thing seems to make something else go out of kilter. It's great fun and I can definitely see that I am progressing but it does feel much harder work than learning to belly-flyA mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trafficdiver 8 #2 November 5, 2015 I found it very difficult to learn in the tunnel and slightly less difficult in the sly afterward. Both in sit and HD. Back flying I found very difficult in the tunnel and fairly easy and natural now in the sky (although the rig on my back makes it a bit tougher in the sky). Most FF people that I have spoken too that learned it in the air first, felt the opposit. They had a difficult time learning in the air, but then it cam more natural in the tunnel. Both are unique, and for me at least, difficult. I sucked my first hour freeflying in the tunnel. And my second, and third... I can't tell you which hour it was that I finally could sit. It's brutal. For me though, the difficulty is what drove me to keep going. Now I can head up fly rock solid and my HD is getting good. Which makes me realize how far there is to go watching people carve and fly dynamic...I hope I can get to that level someday. Good luck. You will no doubt pick it up faster than I did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anachronist 2 #3 November 6, 2015 They are different. I'm no free fly expert (I suck actually) but have a couple tunnel hours and have farted around with free flying in the sky. The tunnel requires a lot more precision, if you move a couple inches in any direction you know it (and you have to stop it), you also have to maintain constant speed. In the sky you might be sliding 10ft or more going from your back to a sit or any other transition and not even realize it or sliding in any direction at a couple mph, your vertical speed can also change a lot without you noticing. I've known several people (myself included) that can sit in the sky but not in the tunnel, same for head down. Known a few very skilled free flyers that had a hard time transitioning those skills to the tunnel as well because the sky is much more forgiving. Watch some non-pro free fly vids and pretend they are in a tunnel, pay attention to the people relative to each other, in the tunnel they would be slamming into the walls and net constantly. But yes, the rig makes some difference, and the tunnel doesn't teach you exits, flying relative to each other more than a few feet away, or with much vertical separation, i.e. chasing someone. (at least without being a tunnel pro and using the whole thing like they do). As far as what you learn faster in (e.g. "I can do x, y, z now") That is just variable from person to person. Either way, if you learn something in the tunnel or the sky, it will take a little practice (or a lot) to make it work in the other one too. There isn't a completely direct translation from one to the other, they supplement each other. Just from personal experience, I had the opposite experience from what you described. I could do 4 way and turn points on my back really well but can't hold a sit for long in the tunnel and it sucks pretty bad in the sky too. Everyone is different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoHuskers 0 #4 November 6, 2015 I had problems with backflying when I first started. Sit came very natural but it came with my bad habits. I'm mostly a sky learner and then took it to the tunnel. Most things are easier to learn in the sky since the air is softer but you only get 40 seconds or so, you can't go to the net and reset, and you can do a season of skydiving in a week of tunnel time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #5 November 8, 2015 In the sky, you have a rig on, you might die, you have no points of reference (most of the time) other than people who are also moving and you have to open and fly a parachute at some point if you'd like to try to skydive more than once. There's a big head game going on. In the tunnel, you might hit a wall which *may* lead to an injury and you're spending a bunch of money in a short period of time. It's like transposing music from one key to another, is pretty similar and it seems the same but it's not just a simple cut and paste. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMK 3 #6 November 8, 2015 I've never understood this fixation with tunnel flying replacing skydiving (it should be a learning tool). Your getting ready to drop another £600 on the tunnel and on here asking what it's like to sit fly in the sky?? Go find out. Use the money for a getaway to Spain or Florida for some "real skydiving". I'm also a private pilot and have never heard any other pilots discussing their "simulator" time; why do we drone on about tunnel (DZ.com even added it as a profile entry, which I think is silly)"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PixieUK 0 #7 November 8, 2015 RMKI've never understood this fixation with tunnel flying replacing skydiving (it should be a learning tool). Your getting ready to drop another £600 on the tunnel and on here asking what it's like to sit fly in the sky?? Go find out. Use the money for a getaway to Spain or Florida for some "real skydiving". Actually an hour is costing me £350 including coaching so not even vaguely comparable to a holiday in Spain (where the weather is also pretty rubbish at the moment) and wouldn't even get me flights to Florida, never mind accommodation and jumping, lol. I recently had a bad car accident and am not able to jump just yet otherwise I would be in the air, giving it a go.A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jockbauer 0 #8 November 9, 2015 It's definitely a different case for different people. I find freeflying harder in the tunnel than in the sky, but my girlfriend is the total opposite. The way I think of it, is that in the sky you are always falling (obviously), whereas in the tunnel you are effectively always trying to get lift. As has been stated already, that makes the sky more forgiving, but good skills in the tunnel will make you much more efficient in the sky. And don't worry about finding backflying difficult - I can sit pretty well in the tunnel, but on my back I'm terrible! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #9 November 9, 2015 QuoteI've never understood this fixation with tunnel flying replacing skydiving (it should be a learning tool). Simply put, there's no way to get the freefall skills to get to the top levels of skydiving without doing a lot of tunnel time. Getting to the top of the sport may not be your goal (and certainly doesn't have to be) but the bottom line is tunnel is tied very heavily into skydiving. Also, this thread is not about "replacing skydiving", it's about how skydiving compares with tunnel. PixieUK - freeflying in a tunnel is very similar to freeflying in the sky. There are things that work well in one environment that don't translate, but most coaches today teach things that work well in both environments. There definitely are some differences though so don't expect all your tunnel skills to translate to the sky on your first jump. If your rig doesn't fit well, it will move around which will have a very big effect on back flying and a medium size effect on sit flying. If the rig does fit well and doesn't move around, it will still change things, just not as much. The exit and the hill are distinctly different from tunnel. Expect to end up on your back after exiting the airplane. Sit exits take time to become consistent, but are a lot of fun. There's also the mental side that Dan mentioned. Having to be aware of skydiving safety issues and deploying your parachute will change your mental state so be ready for that. Overall it will likely take you a few jumps to get your tunnel skills to translate to the sky. Just try to be aware of how the wind feels and try to go for the same feeling in the sky that you are used to in the tunnel. Air deflection works the same in the tunnel and the sky and that's really what you're learning. Enjoy!Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lomcovak 0 #10 November 9, 2015 Anachronist ...But yes, the rig makes some difference, and the tunnel doesn't teach you exits, flying relative to each other more than a few feet away, or with much vertical separation, i.e. chasing someone. (at least without being a tunnel pro and using the whole thing like they do)... I've wondered about this. I'm learning to sit fly (in the sky) and have been wondering how not having a rig on in the tunnel will change it. My problem is that I keep going onto my back, I imagine that the rig actually catches air and help keep you up and that it'll be even harder in the tunnel. Is that a correct assumption?"Now, why do witches burn?" "...because they're made of... wood?" "Good. So how do you tell whether she is made of wood?" "Build a bridge out of her." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #11 November 11, 2015 Get down back flying. The reason you start there is twofold. First, you need to be comfortable going to your back in the beginning when you lose your sit. Second, How you fly on your back (especially legs) translates in a big way to flying in a sit. Holding a sit is one thing, flying in a sit is another. Those skills are really important. I am no ninja but have some hours in the tunnel and I continue to spend time in the tunnel. It can be frustrating at times but all of the sudden in one session some skills will click and you will feel the air. Just as others have mentioned, remember that "feel". That is what really helps tunnel skills translate to the sky imo. Hope this helps. -rtsLife is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #12 January 9, 2016 The tunnel is an excellent learning tool as previously stated. I had 15 minutes in the tunnel 13 years ago and blew through AFF in a few days and given freedom to solo in no time. I went back in the tunnel when I started to learn free flying. The techniques are significantly different and a decent tunnel coach will have you sitting in no time. I hadn't been in a sit in a tunnel for years and got back on my feet in 6 minutes. I am a firm believer in the use of the tunnel to learn new skills, but is never a replacement for jumping. Not using all your available tools to learn feeds into ignorance and will also allow folks to focus on other areas of skydiving besides just trying to remain stable in freefall. Get in the tunnel and have an awesome coach who is also an avid skydiver teach you techniques and the differences. Good luck! ~R+R~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical_flyer 0 #13 January 9, 2016 Where in the UK can you get an hour of coached tunnel time fro £350? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamUK 3 #14 January 9, 2016 That was the airkix 10th birthday deal. It pretty much sold out in the first day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikaru 1 #15 January 13, 2016 Every time you master a new technique or move in the tunnel, you should go to re-master it again in the sky. I would usually make 10 jumps after every 30 minutes of tunnel time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #16 January 14, 2016 nikaruEvery time you master a new technique or move in the tunnel, you should go to re-master it again in the sky. I would usually make 10 jumps after every 30 minutes of tunnel time. Awesome that you can do that. Not everyone can. It is a good suggestion though... if you can jump soon after a tunnel session it is great.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chemist 0 #17 March 28, 2016 RMK I'm also a private pilot and have never heard any other pilots discussing their "simulator" time; why do we drone on about tunnel lol because simulator does NOT equal real flying. Whereas tunnel is free fall and identical to real skydiving especially for the purposes of progression. You freefly at terminal velocity in both freefall and in the tunnel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raftman 12 #18 March 28, 2016 Excuse me, lol all you want but the tunnel is not free fall. In the sky you don't have the man behind the curtain controlling fan speed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #19 March 31, 2016 raftman Excuse me, lol all you want but the tunnel is not free fall. In the sky you don't have the man behind the curtain controlling fan speed. Maybe you don't.... Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chemist 0 #20 April 6, 2016 raftmanExcuse me, lol all you want but the tunnel is not free fall. In the sky you don't have the man behind the curtain controlling fan speed. every time you are not on the net you are in free fall by the laws of physics Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #21 April 10, 2016 chemist ***Excuse me, lol all you want but the tunnel is not free fall. In the sky you don't have the man behind the curtain controlling fan speed. every time you are not on the net you are in free fall by the laws of physics You need to learn physics Gravity is pulling you to earth in freefall. The way your body acts is different in the tunnel. You are using your body to try and stay off of the net in a tunnel. Basically holding yourself "up" of the net. You use your body differently in the sky, because you are not trying to hold yourself up. You use the air resistance in a similar way to change direction and relative speeds. But they are different, and don't directly and automatically transfer from one to the other.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chemist 0 #22 April 23, 2016 Squeak ******Excuse me, lol all you want but the tunnel is not free fall. In the sky you don't have the man behind the curtain controlling fan speed. every time you are not on the net you are in free fall by the laws of physics You need to learn physics Gravity is pulling you to earth in freefall. The way your body acts is different in the tunnel. You are using your body to try and stay off of the net in a tunnel. Basically holding yourself "up" of the net. You use your body differently in the sky, because you are not trying to hold yourself up. You use the air resistance in a similar way to change direction and relative speeds. But they are different, and don't directly and automatically transfer from one to the other. lol. "pushing yourself off the net" is slowing your fall rate, the same thing you do if you need to slow your fall rate in the sky. I'm assuming you don't do much tunnel because as you progress you can fly in higher wind speeds and then you don't struggle staying off the net gravity is pulling you to earth in tunnel it doesn't matter if it is artificial fan creating the air resistance or in the sky. There is an equal force of air resistance going opposite direction of gravity in both situations none of that matters because everyone with low jumps numbers and high tunnel time kills it in free fly which proves it works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
This Site Is For Sale
