On your belly vs On your head

[trumpetfish 0]

I'm new to this sport (35 jumps) and I'm hooked. I don't have my own kit yet but plan on a purchase quite soon. (probably a jav container) my question is relating to freeflying. Is this something that should really be left until you have much more experience and Is the concensus that trying stuff on your own before any dedicated instruction on freeflying just asking for trouble (re- possible collisions with jumpers that exit before you) ?

As someone who is new to all this it certainly seems that freeflying is the fastest growing discipline within skydiving, but i also read about a lot more incidents occuring in this discipline.

So would it be better to stick too RW for my first say 100 jumps (this seems to be the pre-requisite for some freefly coaching schools) ? if anyone has started to try f-fly positions with the same experience level as me i'd love to hear about it.

thanks

new boy.

[ccowden 0]

There is nothing that says you have to do RW for any length of time. Once you have your A license and have been cleared as a safe skydiver, you are free to try new forms of skydiving. Although starting a new discipline like freeflying so soon can be a distraction when you are still getting "comfortable" in the air, it can also be done safely. If you want to try freeflying this soon, I suggest getting a coach and talikng to him. Yes it costs more, but you will learn much faster and you will have someone helping you thru each step of the way. Going out on your own and just trying stuff is not the best way at the stage you are at. As far as when to start trying freeflying-
The sooner the better! Just do it right and do it safe! Don't get in over your head before you are ready. When you feel uncomfortable with something, take a step back.

[trumpetfish 0]

thanks for the info chris.

[jceman 1]

Hey Chris?

Not that you're giving bad advice here, but you did notice that Mr. Trumpetfish is from the UK?

I do believe there is a distinct possibility that he has regulations to comply with as to his progression, if not from the BPA, then from the DZs over there.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

[SanDiegoRW 0]

Keep in mind anything I say is based on the US and I don't now how it is in the UK. I recently took my B license test and there are actually a couple F/F questions on there. Only 50 jumps are required for a B license here. I'm not saying that means you should be freeflying at jump 50, but we know in some cases it is going to happen and USPA has obviously realized this. So, we might as well have some knowledge of it right? I've heard in some places 2 sit fly jumps are actually required to get your license.

I learned my sit right after I got my A license. Having so few jumps actually helped some because I didn't go to my belly from habit while trying to learn the sit position. (It's bad to go to your belly in the middle of F/F jumps by the way) So, just like we always say... It's best to get with a qualified coach/instructor and use his/her advice.

-Kenny

[ccowden 0]

well of course you need to comply with any and all regulations and restictions. I am just giving general advice.

[cheneyneel 0]

Brother I was turning different docks in a sit before I ever turned points on my belly..
Find a friend to progress with.. Constantly talk about safty with them and just jump.. Watch a lot of freefly videos and jump!!! But talk about safty constantly!!!

[SanDiegoRW 0]

I haven't docked on my belly since AFF.

-Kenny

[rmcvey 0]

In the Uk it is generally advised to be a B licience and have FS1 (be capable of a 4 point 4way), and my own opinion is this is a good benchmark for when to start FF.

This all depends on where you jump.

Have a chat with an instructor to see how things work at Hinton.

Usually you are restricted to solo FF jumps until you have your FF1 grade, and just doing solos will take forever to get FF1 so you need a few coach jumps or jumps with more expierenced freeflyers.

Solo freefly jumps at your stage are fun but pretty useless if your still getting the grasp of moving around controlled on your belly.


My advice would be to enjoy formation stuff for the minute. Not only will this benefit your learning when you try FF but if your still on rented kit its usually not ideal for freeflying. If your unsure wehther the kit you use is ok for FF, ask an instructor (Tim Carter
is an FF coach at hinton i think, speak to him)

Safe ones.

[airann 1]

2 words -AUDIBILE ALTIMETER- you might think about a helmet also. However, you can rig it into any helmet for now. wrap it in some fabric and safety pin it or something, duct tape it to your head.

Quote

if anyone has started to try f-fly positions with the same experience level as me i'd love to hear about it.

I did. At 20 jumps. 15 were AFF then 5 were boring solo RW. -erg- I bought my FF suit at Level 10, right off the rack. I knew then where I was going. I just didnt find RW interesting at all. I just never considered it as I recall.

If you try headdown first you may get bad habits and get frustrated. Sit first is my advise. Your stable position is a sit in freeflying. If you go to belly to be stable in freeflying you will cork into someone else. While you are learning you will need your belly to learn to sit. Its where your comfortable and stable. You may want to start exiting in a sit in after a little while.

Pull high as you would off student stat and tell everyone you are going to. You need to get back stable before you pull. Tell everyone what you are working on. (COMMUNICATION) You will float, flip, and it makes a difference in exit order. Keep your cool. Take it slow. Keep your feet level. If you spin go to belly.

Back in the day.. when I started there were ZERO women FFers in Houston. Save one who rocked but she didnt fly anymore. She is still my hero. She did head downs thru formation rounds done by the team www.Deguello.com Then she went around and did it again. She was invited to jump with them. THAT is a huge deal.

Read, watch FF training tapes, listen, ask 'stupid' questions as there is no such thing. Believe me, not a soul will think you are a lozer. A lozer is a guy who doesnt ask. Apparently you do not fit into this catagory. As you can tell by this thread many will help you with their opinions. You can summarize them and take what you will. Its a survey.

Let me say this, if you are going into FFing because it is a fast growing discipline, then please dont. It is dangerous as hell. I suppose yes, it is "in fashion" nowadays. In fact, at some dz's it looks like they went to the freaking #@%*& mall and picked everyone up. New helmets, gear, dayglow suits, you name it, all the coolest stuff. Concentrate on your skydiving FIRST rather be safe than a fashionable in a wheelchair, or busted up or even a dead guy. (that is MY opinion) Sweat pants and long sleeve t-shirt is absolutely fine. Have someone check your temporary rig and see if the flaps are ok for freeflying.

DO NOT go without an audible. Always always check your wrist alt. at all times throughout your skydiving career. My Protrac I wore from AFF till I lost it -in the air-. I didnt even know I lost it as I keep my eye on my wrist. I had every jump on it. I damn near cried, but that is a chick thing.

I did a bazillion solo jumps working on my sit and then cartwheels. Till jump 60 or 70. I did these within about a 3 month period. Once you have this, a cartwheel is one way to transition into a headdown. (I did with a coach) Baby steps.

Back to your question. Yes, it can be done. I did it.

My best friend told me this and he doesnt really say much. I found it harsh till I thought about it. "You arent a Natural. But there are those who work really hard." It is true. AND I feel like 'those' included me, thank you.

Trumpetfish, I - worked - my - ass - off - and I mean that in a big way. I never gave up.

My friend, you already jumped out of an airplane. Its always been my saying that "If you can jump out of an airplane - you can do anything".

Go forth - onward thru the fog - and later, share your thoughts with new guys/gals who just start out.

Good Luck. Mainly have fun. Work on it and you will be great. Even like me when I sucked bad, I had fun while learning. Walk away from that sucker.



(edit: I messed up on the link thingy)

~AirAnn~

[Yoshi 0]

I started freeflying (sit) in my coach dives before I got my licence.. since then i have been hooked... I have dont about 25-30 rw jumps since I got my licence and I have about 350 jumps now. all I can say is that no matter which way you lear (belly first or sit first) be very comfy with pull time and alti awareness.. I got into a couple of un-nerving situations from stupidity and its really hard to keep your mind streight when you are starring at the ground comming up at you much less sitting there staring at the sunset on the horizon. make sure whoever you jump with knows your abilility and tell the truth...it will only get you further. I am no expert by any means but maybe some of what I say you can use...
good luck and have fun!
-yoshi

_________________________________________
this space for rent.

[sunshine 2]

Personally i think you should be good on your belly before doing FF jumps. I think it's pathetic when someone is a kickass freeflyer and can't even get to a simple formation on his belly. I waited til i has a little over 100 jumps before doing FF, i'm glad i did it that way.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[ccowden 0]

Nothing wrong with that, but why is it pathetic if a good freeflyer can't do RW?
They are both forms of skydiving and it is a personal preference which one you like to do. Everyone has to become a safe skydiver to get their license, but that doesn't mean in this day and age that they have to become any better at RW. I don't find it "pathetic" if a good RWer can't sitfly.

[VectorBoy 0]

I totally agree with Ann above and I had a very similar progression. I got back into the sport after a fifteen year lay-off just to do the stuff the freeflyers are doing.
Around 60 jumps I got invited to do some RW with some coaches and some 200 and 400 jump RW regulars. Turned out I kicked their ass ( the regulars not the coaches ) I could swoop down and get my spot in a fraction of what it was taking them. Docked by one hand or hands off. They had a better feel for maintaining precise fall rate something I had to learn but I did in no time at all, after all I'm use to wearing a much floaty suit. Its all good. Someone said you have to be comfortable on your belly first. And I agree. I was comfortable on my belly and learning freefly. You won't learn if you are not relaxed, FEELING it! Glen

[blueshrew 0]

I tried my first sit at jump 12. But the first time I jumped with someone other than my b/f, who is a former AFFI and FF coach, was at jump 80-something.
My advice is only jump with others if you think you are not a danger to them (coaches, etc.) or when you think you can react appropriately to someone shooting at you. Avoid bigger ways until you are proficient enough, and anyway, a lot of two ways will most likely advance you faster.
And deffinitely get an audible because it takes time until you develope good altitude awareness.

[PhreeZone 15]

What type of flyer were you before your lay off?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[VectorBoy 0]

Strictly solo belly, static line progression thru to various delay freefalls. Using belly mount reserves on military surplus rounds. It was at Temploux in belgium. AFF and tandems were just coming out, and only stateside at that. They said hundreds of jumps on rounds before transitioning to squares. I said I had enough and couldn't wait. Said I'd always get back, kept in touch with some jumping friends. I saw what the freeflyers were doing on some xtreme sports show featuring the flyboys and was blown away. A near life experience told me it was time to come on back, I'm staying for good. Glen

[Levin 0]

Quote

Nothing wrong with that, but why is it pathetic if a good freeflyer can't do RW?
They are both forms of skydiving and it is a personal preference which one you like to do. Everyone has to become a safe skydiver to get their license, but that doesn't mean in this day and age that they have to become any better at RW. I don't find it "pathetic" if a good RWer can't sitfly.

i think i have to agree with sunshine. however, i don't agree that it is neccessarily pathetic. maybe almost pathetic. i don't think she said RW. what she said was the ability to fly to a formation on your belly. which if you consider freeflying to be total body flight then that includes belly. to me RW is turning points. i agree that the inability to sitfly of a good RWer is definetly not pathetic, but that's because sitflying is outside the realm of their discipline. belly flying for a freeflyer on the other hand is not. i don't know if you've ever tried it, but RW is kinda fun. from exit to opening at least.

Levin
Team AeRodeo
vSCS#3

[tosca 0]

I think RW experience can be valuable when you start learning freeflying.

I did RW-jumps as often I had someone to jump with in the beginning. It´s easier to learn turns, learn to think quicker about what´s happening around, to become more conscious. Things happens so fast in freeflying, the less things that distract you the better.

On solo jumps, when I didn´t have any RW-jumper to play with, I practiced freeflying.

Now it´s almost only freeflying!

[trumpetfish 0]

well, what can i say, you're all lovely lovely people ;-)
but seriously, thanks for all the great feedback (escp airann)

I'll be progressing to FS1 in the UK as soon as I can and B license when I can get back to the US, hopefully later in the year. I won't be trying any f-fly action until I can get my own f-fly friendly rig as a lot of the student rigs don't seem to be.

once again, thanks.

[ccowden 0]

Oh I've tried it alright! Most of my first 500 jumps were RW and I got up to doing some pretty good stuff. I was in some bigger things and my biggest was a 30way. It just got to be too serious for me and even though it is challenging to fly a slot and put together a formation of large numbers or turn alot of points, it just wasn't challenging enough to me for my personal flying and it got way to serious. But to answer your question-
Yes I have tried it.

[fundgh 0]

I started learning to sit on my own right after AFF progression. I was doing front flips and landed on my butt, and liked it. 2 major points though....
MAKE SURE YOUR GEAR IS FREEFLY FRIENDLY...
I have seen people go out and do headdown in worn out student gear...not smart

GET COACHING/ADVISE FROM PEOPLE AT YOUR DZ... You want to get instruction and have experienced people to help you be SAFE in your setting.

Then have fun and learn to fly that sack of bones!

...FUN FOR ALL!

[huffermoose 0]

Hey every body burns belly flying. but i look at it as another form of freeflying. on your belly on ur back autmonati head down head up.


Its all good !

so learn it all much more fun that way.

just my 10 cents