Zee 0 #26 October 14, 2004 You beat me to it Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #27 October 14, 2004 QuoteYou just don't like it cause you can't do it. That sounds like a dare little girl.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #28 October 15, 2004 ***On top of that, there is a difference in tandem videos, there are different standards at different places. The video concession owner at my dz (Byron) is VERY picky as to how the video should look and it is very challenging to get him what he likes, the right angle, the right shots e.a. i believe quality control is important but who say what is right! just becaus byron like those shot doesn't mean the customer wants that! some customers specificly ask me not to film their face up close and concentrate on our magnificent scenery,while others want to be the centre of attention, different stroke for different folks maintain a high standard but mix it up photography is an art. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #29 October 15, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I simply don't agree that a dock by a videographer adds anything. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *** I've got the video proof that it does in many, many interviews after the jump. Quote me too! and photo proof you just have to look at the expression on thier faces. aye "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #30 October 15, 2004 *** Just because you never had a problem doesn't make it safe. According to your profile, you're not a TI. Something to remember is docking on a student by a video guy is up to the TI, it doesn't matter how cool you think it is, if the TI doesn't want you to, don't. Speaking of that, docking on a student doesn't do anything for the video and most of the times tandems student's only half way know whats going on. That's a dangerous combination, people have been hurt doing that before. Quote people have been hurt in all kind of ways skydiving does that make it unsafe should we stop doing it? no i am not a tandem master reason being at my dropzone the tandem masters do between 70 and 180 tandems a month and can get bored and beg for some interaction during the jump! i do less camera jumps but can earn just as much as the tandems! just because i have never jumped a tandem ( except for my 3 mr bills, oops, shh, thats dangerous) doesnt mean i don't know what is involved! if it is fun for the staff then it will be fun for the student also! and as for docking not doing anything for the video. a video with no interaction is a nothing video. skydiving is fun, have some!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #31 October 15, 2004 Quotepeople have been hurt in all kind of ways skydiving does that make it unsafe should we stop doing it? When working with students you need to realize there are good ideas and bad ideas. "Fun" things to do with students aren't always a good idea, some really put the student at risk, as a TI I'm going to do everything I can do to keep the risk to a minimum for my student. As an instructor, that's the ethical thing to do.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vdschoor 0 #32 October 15, 2004 Quote***On top of that, there is a difference in tandem videos, there are different standards at different places. The video concession owner at my dz (Byron) is VERY picky as to how the video should look and it is very challenging to get him what he likes, the right angle, the right shots e.a. i believe quality control is important but who say what is right! just becaus byron like those shot doesn't mean the customer wants that! some customers specificly ask me not to film their face up close and concentrate on our magnificent scenery,while others want to be the centre of attention, different stroke for different folks maintain a high standard but mix it up photography is an art. I think I wrote it up wrong. What I meant with this: "The video concession owner at my dz (Byron) is VERY picky as to how the video should look and it is very challenging to get him what he likes, the right angle, the right shots e.a. " Is that those are some shots that have to be in the video, it doesnt mean we have to sit still in front of them, at the given angle, it just means that somewhere in the video, that angle has to be there for a couple of seconds. Happy practicing! Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #33 October 16, 2004 this thread is for j3zz to lean more abot filming tandems but as there has been so many comments for and against my suggestion to dock and spin a tandem i will start a new one! swoop hard jeremy!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhy 0 #34 October 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's all about the experience of the passenger. It's all about the SAFTEY of the passenger. . Safety is the rule! Experience the challenge! It's all about not getting above the tandem, not on exit not on deployment, not when circling around them..! (stay away from the drogue...it's bad...drogue=demon...!) I think docks are safe, never had any trouble.. but if in doubt just grab the tandem masters hand, they don't freak out (?), they can help by putting the hand in the right place.. After a while you need to try new stuff just for your own skills as a flyer! Yea, get on your back underneath the tandem and let them grab your foot :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #35 October 21, 2004 Finally got a few screen grabs they are not great but OK First comment I was not aligned to the sun so the lighting is all wrong. Otherwise comments welcomed Shot with a 0.43 kenko lens As a video as a whole it is a bit up and down but there are a few good moments a lot of practice and I think I'll get there Awaiting delivery of my ring sight which I hope will help with framing Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #36 October 21, 2004 Getting the TI to face the sun requires teamwork. Sometimes all it takes is a casual comment as you walk to the plane. If they forget - or are too busy struggling with an unstable student - you have to fly to edge of their vision and give them a hand signal to remind them to turn and face the sun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #37 October 21, 2004 Just an aside, when shooting video do you ever check your visual alti and how do you do that without moving your head, My vid has some horrid head movements but as said before this dive was al about being safe, not getting great vid. Thanks Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vdschoor 0 #38 October 21, 2004 QuoteJust an aside, when shooting video do you ever check your visual alti and how do you do that without moving your head, My vid has some horrid head movements but as said before this dive was al about being safe, not getting great vid. I hardly ever look at my alti in freefall when I am videoing tandems. if I do, I bring my hand in front of me enough to be able to glance at it without having to move my head. That's why I have 2 altis in my helmet too.. So there is less to worry about. Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #39 October 21, 2004 [QUOTE] I hardly ever look at my alti in freefall when I am videoing tandems. if I do, I bring my hand in front of me enough to be able to glance at it without having to move my head. That's why I have 2 altis in my helmet too.. So there is less to worry about. [/QUOTE] Thats what I was thinking so when I get the money might need to get another audible. Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #40 October 21, 2004 I would definately zoom in a bit to get rid of the "corners". You might like the effect, but I'd guess a paying customer wouldn't... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lewmonst 0 #41 October 21, 2004 Not bad for beginning. A few tips... 1 - Like you said, get the TM to face the sun. The only exception to this is if he is struggling with the student's body position or something like that. There are a couple ways to do this. Mentioning it to him before the jump is an easy reminder. But seriously, any TM with moderate experience should know to face the sun for the video. If the TM is new or rarely ever has video, they might need the reminder. In freefall, there are also a couple things you can do. Instead of chasing them, just camp out with the sun to your back until the TM turns and faces you. If they are completely oblivious, move into their peripheral vision. Just seeing you there should get them to turn towards you, in which case, keep the TM turning until the light is right. If that still doesn't work, get in front of the TM and point or wave in the direction you want them to turn while you start sliding that way. And if that doesn't work, then your TM is clueless. But seriously, when you have enough experience and if the TM is safely flying stable, you can turn them just by docking on the students hand and gently turning them into the sun. 2 - Get rid of the vignetting (black in the corners) and helmet (lower right corner of every framegrab) in the frame. To get rid of the vignetting you can either tick the zoom in a little bit or get a better lens. I use a Sony .6 which is just as wide as a kenko .43. Or you can effectively video tandems with a .5 and just fly about 4 or 5 feet away instead of 2 or 3. If you switch to a .5, attempting to dock with a tandem and keep them in frame will be difficult and it will look really close. But as you're not ready to dock with a tandem, a .5 may work better for you as your learning. Now, the helmet that is in view in the lower right corner... this might be solved by ticking the zoom in or jumping a different lense, but it juts into the frame much more than just the vignetting... You either have to zoom in a little more (not the ideal answer as zooming enhancing camera shake and loses quality). Getting a different lense might solve it. But you might also have to move the mount for your camera just slightly forward on your helmet if changing the lens doesn't get rid of the helmet in frame. 3 - Get lower. lower. Ok, a little lower. Now, get even lower. Filming a tandem is not like filming a solo jumper on level. For good tandem videos, you really need to sink well below the level of the tandem and look up. I think Deuce's rule of thumb is that you should be able to see the students chest strap. I try to see their pelvis. It's not easy. Wings help. If you're not jumping wings, you can fly with your arms out in front of you and try to arch and look up (don't sink out). With wings, you can learn to hang on your wings to help look up. I arch like a mofo on most tandem videos. It's really an awkward position to fly on your belly to get that good shot with the looking up angle. I'm light and I almost always wear weight with my wings. My guideline for weight is: Take the total tandem weight (without gear), divide by two, subtract my weight without gear, divide that by two and that's how much weight I'll wear, give or take a little for the passenger's build (tall & lenky vs. short and stocky). So if the TM is 200 and the passenger is 180, a total of 380, and I weigh about 160, (380/2 - 160 = 30) I'll wear 15 lbs. Sounds like a lot, but I'm tall and have a lot of surface area. But, that's just what works for me, with wings. If that number goes above my weight belt, 18 lbs, then I'll jump without wings, and no more than 10 lbs. This rule doesn't work for everyone, it's just what I've found that works for me. I don't arch that well to begin with, so the weight makes it easier for me. Most of the other videographers here rarely wear weight. Having a real camera suit (slick suit, booties and big wings) helps also. I jump a freefly camera jacket, that, even with my wings collapsed, is very slow. You will figure out what works for you, just try to get lower and look up. This also helps with lighting. Especially midday when the sun is straight up, the more you get under the tandem and fill the entire frame with their body and face, the camera will adjust it's light balance and you will have less shadows. 4 - I never look at my alti when filming a tandem. First of all, the TM should be opening around 5000ft, there's your first clue. TM's should initiate emergency procedures by 3500ft, which if you see that happening, you should be tracking away, at which point, your job of filming the tandem is done, clear your airspace and check your alti. And even easier, use an audible (or two). 5 - Drogue shots are a nice variety to throw in the video after you've gotten a good 10 seconds of the money shot, the close face shot. I shoot the drogue by popping up (again, easier with wings) and staying in close proximity to the tandem, still only 3 or 4 feet away from the drogue. As I pop up, I change the center of my sighting to rise half way up the drogue as I go all the way up and a few feet higher than the drogue. Done correctly, this keeps the tandem in the bottom of the frame and brings the drogue into the top of the frame. Then when I drop back down, I use my momentum to get very very low on the tandem, looking way up, and popping the wings out so i'm almost vertical and get the entire drogue behind them from underneath. It takes practice also. You're drogue shot is not bad, as you drift away from the tandem, adjust your sighting so the center of the drogue bridle becomes the center of your framing, and as you get back closer, go back to focusing on their face. If you don't pop up for the drogue-shot, a nice orbit shot slightly above the TM while the TM spins in the opposite direction, that shows the scenery, and most customers like that. Bottom line, you gotta see their face clearly. Everything after that is icing. A tandem video is easy. A good tandem video is challenging. And you asked about editing, seriously, a linear editing board is the easiest and fastest way to get the video to the customer shortly after their jump. A good one has a few effects you can through in for a nice touch as well. Non-linear (ie, on a computer) editing for tandem videos is overkill if you ask me. have fun! lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #42 October 21, 2004 WHat she said. Lew, that was a very generous gift of your time to respond like that. Lower. If you can't see the chest strap on the tandem, you are not low enough. Low enough is when you can see hip straps, chest strap, and drogue. I also think your lens is too wide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #43 October 22, 2004 Lew thanks for the time you took to write such a complete repsonse, I have saved it as a word doc for future ref. The vignetting only shows up on a PC not on the TV but the corner of the helmet does, I have bumped in the zoom to remove both of these and will see how it goes. Thanks again Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #44 October 22, 2004 Paul What lens would you recommend? Thanks Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #45 October 22, 2004 Paul is Quade, but if you are asking me (I'm JP, the older , suaver, handsomer one) I'd suggest the Diamond .3 or .5 if you are wanting to spend some money. The lens you have is fine, but a little fisheye-ish. Just zoom it in a little. You'll generally want it to match the field of view of whatever stills camera you end up using. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #46 October 22, 2004 Sorry JP, Thanks for the advise "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #47 October 23, 2004 some more unsolicited advice? Too many video flyers are using a wideangle that is way to freaking wide. Watching little people far away just sucks. A truly great contemporary videographer who uses no wideangle at all is Greg Gasson. I know i push my product a little hard here, but if you click my sig line and download the free preview of last years holiday boogie, you'll see a really cool bit of video where Greg goes under an RW group in perfect timing with a deck of industrial haze. With no Wideangle at all. They can be a crutch. Get good without it, and then use wideangle and zoom as tools in your camera flying toolbox. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #48 October 23, 2004 all good info. i agree except i don't think a sony .6 would be anything like a kenko .43 (couldn't be, could it?) and the drouge shot should be taken from completely below the tandem so all you can see is the customer and the drouge and the tandem masters face sticking out from behind! that is the money shot if you ask me. (need wings though) i would get a .6 if i were you though it would be far less demanding in your flying i also beleive a fish eye is an overkill too. swoop hard bro."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #49 October 24, 2004 QuoteToo many video flyers are using a wideangle that is way to freaking wide. jp, i use a dimond knock off thatis .3 and i find it workd great... i have to be closer than i was when i was using my .45 but i like not having to switch lenses from a fun jump to a paid jump..... for me it's all about knowing where the framing is and what it's gona look like on the screen vs the air...... but i got a long way stil go get the stuff you and lew get....... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #50 October 24, 2004 Bah. If you can get close enough, and like the curvature, use the .3. That is the lens I usually use, but I zoom it to about a .6 or back it off depending on whether I'm shooting a 20mm or a 14mm still lens. If I am inside, or know I'm going to be close, I can back it off. I agree that it is the most versatile lens, all around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
rhys 0 #30 October 15, 2004 *** Just because you never had a problem doesn't make it safe. According to your profile, you're not a TI. Something to remember is docking on a student by a video guy is up to the TI, it doesn't matter how cool you think it is, if the TI doesn't want you to, don't. Speaking of that, docking on a student doesn't do anything for the video and most of the times tandems student's only half way know whats going on. That's a dangerous combination, people have been hurt doing that before. Quote people have been hurt in all kind of ways skydiving does that make it unsafe should we stop doing it? no i am not a tandem master reason being at my dropzone the tandem masters do between 70 and 180 tandems a month and can get bored and beg for some interaction during the jump! i do less camera jumps but can earn just as much as the tandems! just because i have never jumped a tandem ( except for my 3 mr bills, oops, shh, thats dangerous) doesnt mean i don't know what is involved! if it is fun for the staff then it will be fun for the student also! and as for docking not doing anything for the video. a video with no interaction is a nothing video. skydiving is fun, have some!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #31 October 15, 2004 Quotepeople have been hurt in all kind of ways skydiving does that make it unsafe should we stop doing it? When working with students you need to realize there are good ideas and bad ideas. "Fun" things to do with students aren't always a good idea, some really put the student at risk, as a TI I'm going to do everything I can do to keep the risk to a minimum for my student. As an instructor, that's the ethical thing to do.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vdschoor 0 #32 October 15, 2004 Quote***On top of that, there is a difference in tandem videos, there are different standards at different places. The video concession owner at my dz (Byron) is VERY picky as to how the video should look and it is very challenging to get him what he likes, the right angle, the right shots e.a. i believe quality control is important but who say what is right! just becaus byron like those shot doesn't mean the customer wants that! some customers specificly ask me not to film their face up close and concentrate on our magnificent scenery,while others want to be the centre of attention, different stroke for different folks maintain a high standard but mix it up photography is an art. I think I wrote it up wrong. What I meant with this: "The video concession owner at my dz (Byron) is VERY picky as to how the video should look and it is very challenging to get him what he likes, the right angle, the right shots e.a. " Is that those are some shots that have to be in the video, it doesnt mean we have to sit still in front of them, at the given angle, it just means that somewhere in the video, that angle has to be there for a couple of seconds. Happy practicing! Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #33 October 16, 2004 this thread is for j3zz to lean more abot filming tandems but as there has been so many comments for and against my suggestion to dock and spin a tandem i will start a new one! swoop hard jeremy!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhy 0 #34 October 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's all about the experience of the passenger. It's all about the SAFTEY of the passenger. . Safety is the rule! Experience the challenge! It's all about not getting above the tandem, not on exit not on deployment, not when circling around them..! (stay away from the drogue...it's bad...drogue=demon...!) I think docks are safe, never had any trouble.. but if in doubt just grab the tandem masters hand, they don't freak out (?), they can help by putting the hand in the right place.. After a while you need to try new stuff just for your own skills as a flyer! Yea, get on your back underneath the tandem and let them grab your foot :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #35 October 21, 2004 Finally got a few screen grabs they are not great but OK First comment I was not aligned to the sun so the lighting is all wrong. Otherwise comments welcomed Shot with a 0.43 kenko lens As a video as a whole it is a bit up and down but there are a few good moments a lot of practice and I think I'll get there Awaiting delivery of my ring sight which I hope will help with framing Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #36 October 21, 2004 Getting the TI to face the sun requires teamwork. Sometimes all it takes is a casual comment as you walk to the plane. If they forget - or are too busy struggling with an unstable student - you have to fly to edge of their vision and give them a hand signal to remind them to turn and face the sun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #37 October 21, 2004 Just an aside, when shooting video do you ever check your visual alti and how do you do that without moving your head, My vid has some horrid head movements but as said before this dive was al about being safe, not getting great vid. Thanks Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vdschoor 0 #38 October 21, 2004 QuoteJust an aside, when shooting video do you ever check your visual alti and how do you do that without moving your head, My vid has some horrid head movements but as said before this dive was al about being safe, not getting great vid. I hardly ever look at my alti in freefall when I am videoing tandems. if I do, I bring my hand in front of me enough to be able to glance at it without having to move my head. That's why I have 2 altis in my helmet too.. So there is less to worry about. Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #39 October 21, 2004 [QUOTE] I hardly ever look at my alti in freefall when I am videoing tandems. if I do, I bring my hand in front of me enough to be able to glance at it without having to move my head. That's why I have 2 altis in my helmet too.. So there is less to worry about. [/QUOTE] Thats what I was thinking so when I get the money might need to get another audible. Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #40 October 21, 2004 I would definately zoom in a bit to get rid of the "corners". You might like the effect, but I'd guess a paying customer wouldn't... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lewmonst 0 #41 October 21, 2004 Not bad for beginning. A few tips... 1 - Like you said, get the TM to face the sun. The only exception to this is if he is struggling with the student's body position or something like that. There are a couple ways to do this. Mentioning it to him before the jump is an easy reminder. But seriously, any TM with moderate experience should know to face the sun for the video. If the TM is new or rarely ever has video, they might need the reminder. In freefall, there are also a couple things you can do. Instead of chasing them, just camp out with the sun to your back until the TM turns and faces you. If they are completely oblivious, move into their peripheral vision. Just seeing you there should get them to turn towards you, in which case, keep the TM turning until the light is right. If that still doesn't work, get in front of the TM and point or wave in the direction you want them to turn while you start sliding that way. And if that doesn't work, then your TM is clueless. But seriously, when you have enough experience and if the TM is safely flying stable, you can turn them just by docking on the students hand and gently turning them into the sun. 2 - Get rid of the vignetting (black in the corners) and helmet (lower right corner of every framegrab) in the frame. To get rid of the vignetting you can either tick the zoom in a little bit or get a better lens. I use a Sony .6 which is just as wide as a kenko .43. Or you can effectively video tandems with a .5 and just fly about 4 or 5 feet away instead of 2 or 3. If you switch to a .5, attempting to dock with a tandem and keep them in frame will be difficult and it will look really close. But as you're not ready to dock with a tandem, a .5 may work better for you as your learning. Now, the helmet that is in view in the lower right corner... this might be solved by ticking the zoom in or jumping a different lense, but it juts into the frame much more than just the vignetting... You either have to zoom in a little more (not the ideal answer as zooming enhancing camera shake and loses quality). Getting a different lense might solve it. But you might also have to move the mount for your camera just slightly forward on your helmet if changing the lens doesn't get rid of the helmet in frame. 3 - Get lower. lower. Ok, a little lower. Now, get even lower. Filming a tandem is not like filming a solo jumper on level. For good tandem videos, you really need to sink well below the level of the tandem and look up. I think Deuce's rule of thumb is that you should be able to see the students chest strap. I try to see their pelvis. It's not easy. Wings help. If you're not jumping wings, you can fly with your arms out in front of you and try to arch and look up (don't sink out). With wings, you can learn to hang on your wings to help look up. I arch like a mofo on most tandem videos. It's really an awkward position to fly on your belly to get that good shot with the looking up angle. I'm light and I almost always wear weight with my wings. My guideline for weight is: Take the total tandem weight (without gear), divide by two, subtract my weight without gear, divide that by two and that's how much weight I'll wear, give or take a little for the passenger's build (tall & lenky vs. short and stocky). So if the TM is 200 and the passenger is 180, a total of 380, and I weigh about 160, (380/2 - 160 = 30) I'll wear 15 lbs. Sounds like a lot, but I'm tall and have a lot of surface area. But, that's just what works for me, with wings. If that number goes above my weight belt, 18 lbs, then I'll jump without wings, and no more than 10 lbs. This rule doesn't work for everyone, it's just what I've found that works for me. I don't arch that well to begin with, so the weight makes it easier for me. Most of the other videographers here rarely wear weight. Having a real camera suit (slick suit, booties and big wings) helps also. I jump a freefly camera jacket, that, even with my wings collapsed, is very slow. You will figure out what works for you, just try to get lower and look up. This also helps with lighting. Especially midday when the sun is straight up, the more you get under the tandem and fill the entire frame with their body and face, the camera will adjust it's light balance and you will have less shadows. 4 - I never look at my alti when filming a tandem. First of all, the TM should be opening around 5000ft, there's your first clue. TM's should initiate emergency procedures by 3500ft, which if you see that happening, you should be tracking away, at which point, your job of filming the tandem is done, clear your airspace and check your alti. And even easier, use an audible (or two). 5 - Drogue shots are a nice variety to throw in the video after you've gotten a good 10 seconds of the money shot, the close face shot. I shoot the drogue by popping up (again, easier with wings) and staying in close proximity to the tandem, still only 3 or 4 feet away from the drogue. As I pop up, I change the center of my sighting to rise half way up the drogue as I go all the way up and a few feet higher than the drogue. Done correctly, this keeps the tandem in the bottom of the frame and brings the drogue into the top of the frame. Then when I drop back down, I use my momentum to get very very low on the tandem, looking way up, and popping the wings out so i'm almost vertical and get the entire drogue behind them from underneath. It takes practice also. You're drogue shot is not bad, as you drift away from the tandem, adjust your sighting so the center of the drogue bridle becomes the center of your framing, and as you get back closer, go back to focusing on their face. If you don't pop up for the drogue-shot, a nice orbit shot slightly above the TM while the TM spins in the opposite direction, that shows the scenery, and most customers like that. Bottom line, you gotta see their face clearly. Everything after that is icing. A tandem video is easy. A good tandem video is challenging. And you asked about editing, seriously, a linear editing board is the easiest and fastest way to get the video to the customer shortly after their jump. A good one has a few effects you can through in for a nice touch as well. Non-linear (ie, on a computer) editing for tandem videos is overkill if you ask me. have fun! lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #42 October 21, 2004 WHat she said. Lew, that was a very generous gift of your time to respond like that. Lower. If you can't see the chest strap on the tandem, you are not low enough. Low enough is when you can see hip straps, chest strap, and drogue. I also think your lens is too wide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #43 October 22, 2004 Lew thanks for the time you took to write such a complete repsonse, I have saved it as a word doc for future ref. The vignetting only shows up on a PC not on the TV but the corner of the helmet does, I have bumped in the zoom to remove both of these and will see how it goes. Thanks again Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #44 October 22, 2004 Paul What lens would you recommend? Thanks Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #45 October 22, 2004 Paul is Quade, but if you are asking me (I'm JP, the older , suaver, handsomer one) I'd suggest the Diamond .3 or .5 if you are wanting to spend some money. The lens you have is fine, but a little fisheye-ish. Just zoom it in a little. You'll generally want it to match the field of view of whatever stills camera you end up using. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites j3zz 0 #46 October 22, 2004 Sorry JP, Thanks for the advise "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #47 October 23, 2004 some more unsolicited advice? Too many video flyers are using a wideangle that is way to freaking wide. Watching little people far away just sucks. A truly great contemporary videographer who uses no wideangle at all is Greg Gasson. I know i push my product a little hard here, but if you click my sig line and download the free preview of last years holiday boogie, you'll see a really cool bit of video where Greg goes under an RW group in perfect timing with a deck of industrial haze. With no Wideangle at all. They can be a crutch. Get good without it, and then use wideangle and zoom as tools in your camera flying toolbox. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #48 October 23, 2004 all good info. i agree except i don't think a sony .6 would be anything like a kenko .43 (couldn't be, could it?) and the drouge shot should be taken from completely below the tandem so all you can see is the customer and the drouge and the tandem masters face sticking out from behind! that is the money shot if you ask me. (need wings though) i would get a .6 if i were you though it would be far less demanding in your flying i also beleive a fish eye is an overkill too. swoop hard bro."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #49 October 24, 2004 QuoteToo many video flyers are using a wideangle that is way to freaking wide. jp, i use a dimond knock off thatis .3 and i find it workd great... i have to be closer than i was when i was using my .45 but i like not having to switch lenses from a fun jump to a paid jump..... for me it's all about knowing where the framing is and what it's gona look like on the screen vs the air...... but i got a long way stil go get the stuff you and lew get....... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #50 October 24, 2004 Bah. If you can get close enough, and like the curvature, use the .3. That is the lens I usually use, but I zoom it to about a .6 or back it off depending on whether I'm shooting a 20mm or a 14mm still lens. If I am inside, or know I'm going to be close, I can back it off. I agree that it is the most versatile lens, all around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
AggieDave 6 #31 October 15, 2004 Quotepeople have been hurt in all kind of ways skydiving does that make it unsafe should we stop doing it? When working with students you need to realize there are good ideas and bad ideas. "Fun" things to do with students aren't always a good idea, some really put the student at risk, as a TI I'm going to do everything I can do to keep the risk to a minimum for my student. As an instructor, that's the ethical thing to do.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #32 October 15, 2004 Quote***On top of that, there is a difference in tandem videos, there are different standards at different places. The video concession owner at my dz (Byron) is VERY picky as to how the video should look and it is very challenging to get him what he likes, the right angle, the right shots e.a. i believe quality control is important but who say what is right! just becaus byron like those shot doesn't mean the customer wants that! some customers specificly ask me not to film their face up close and concentrate on our magnificent scenery,while others want to be the centre of attention, different stroke for different folks maintain a high standard but mix it up photography is an art. I think I wrote it up wrong. What I meant with this: "The video concession owner at my dz (Byron) is VERY picky as to how the video should look and it is very challenging to get him what he likes, the right angle, the right shots e.a. " Is that those are some shots that have to be in the video, it doesnt mean we have to sit still in front of them, at the given angle, it just means that somewhere in the video, that angle has to be there for a couple of seconds. Happy practicing! Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #33 October 16, 2004 this thread is for j3zz to lean more abot filming tandems but as there has been so many comments for and against my suggestion to dock and spin a tandem i will start a new one! swoop hard jeremy!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhy 0 #34 October 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's all about the experience of the passenger. It's all about the SAFTEY of the passenger. . Safety is the rule! Experience the challenge! It's all about not getting above the tandem, not on exit not on deployment, not when circling around them..! (stay away from the drogue...it's bad...drogue=demon...!) I think docks are safe, never had any trouble.. but if in doubt just grab the tandem masters hand, they don't freak out (?), they can help by putting the hand in the right place.. After a while you need to try new stuff just for your own skills as a flyer! Yea, get on your back underneath the tandem and let them grab your foot :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j3zz 0 #35 October 21, 2004 Finally got a few screen grabs they are not great but OK First comment I was not aligned to the sun so the lighting is all wrong. Otherwise comments welcomed Shot with a 0.43 kenko lens As a video as a whole it is a bit up and down but there are a few good moments a lot of practice and I think I'll get there Awaiting delivery of my ring sight which I hope will help with framing Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #36 October 21, 2004 Getting the TI to face the sun requires teamwork. Sometimes all it takes is a casual comment as you walk to the plane. If they forget - or are too busy struggling with an unstable student - you have to fly to edge of their vision and give them a hand signal to remind them to turn and face the sun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j3zz 0 #37 October 21, 2004 Just an aside, when shooting video do you ever check your visual alti and how do you do that without moving your head, My vid has some horrid head movements but as said before this dive was al about being safe, not getting great vid. Thanks Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #38 October 21, 2004 QuoteJust an aside, when shooting video do you ever check your visual alti and how do you do that without moving your head, My vid has some horrid head movements but as said before this dive was al about being safe, not getting great vid. I hardly ever look at my alti in freefall when I am videoing tandems. if I do, I bring my hand in front of me enough to be able to glance at it without having to move my head. That's why I have 2 altis in my helmet too.. So there is less to worry about. Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j3zz 0 #39 October 21, 2004 [QUOTE] I hardly ever look at my alti in freefall when I am videoing tandems. if I do, I bring my hand in front of me enough to be able to glance at it without having to move my head. That's why I have 2 altis in my helmet too.. So there is less to worry about. [/QUOTE] Thats what I was thinking so when I get the money might need to get another audible. Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #40 October 21, 2004 I would definately zoom in a bit to get rid of the "corners". You might like the effect, but I'd guess a paying customer wouldn't... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #41 October 21, 2004 Not bad for beginning. A few tips... 1 - Like you said, get the TM to face the sun. The only exception to this is if he is struggling with the student's body position or something like that. There are a couple ways to do this. Mentioning it to him before the jump is an easy reminder. But seriously, any TM with moderate experience should know to face the sun for the video. If the TM is new or rarely ever has video, they might need the reminder. In freefall, there are also a couple things you can do. Instead of chasing them, just camp out with the sun to your back until the TM turns and faces you. If they are completely oblivious, move into their peripheral vision. Just seeing you there should get them to turn towards you, in which case, keep the TM turning until the light is right. If that still doesn't work, get in front of the TM and point or wave in the direction you want them to turn while you start sliding that way. And if that doesn't work, then your TM is clueless. But seriously, when you have enough experience and if the TM is safely flying stable, you can turn them just by docking on the students hand and gently turning them into the sun. 2 - Get rid of the vignetting (black in the corners) and helmet (lower right corner of every framegrab) in the frame. To get rid of the vignetting you can either tick the zoom in a little bit or get a better lens. I use a Sony .6 which is just as wide as a kenko .43. Or you can effectively video tandems with a .5 and just fly about 4 or 5 feet away instead of 2 or 3. If you switch to a .5, attempting to dock with a tandem and keep them in frame will be difficult and it will look really close. But as you're not ready to dock with a tandem, a .5 may work better for you as your learning. Now, the helmet that is in view in the lower right corner... this might be solved by ticking the zoom in or jumping a different lense, but it juts into the frame much more than just the vignetting... You either have to zoom in a little more (not the ideal answer as zooming enhancing camera shake and loses quality). Getting a different lense might solve it. But you might also have to move the mount for your camera just slightly forward on your helmet if changing the lens doesn't get rid of the helmet in frame. 3 - Get lower. lower. Ok, a little lower. Now, get even lower. Filming a tandem is not like filming a solo jumper on level. For good tandem videos, you really need to sink well below the level of the tandem and look up. I think Deuce's rule of thumb is that you should be able to see the students chest strap. I try to see their pelvis. It's not easy. Wings help. If you're not jumping wings, you can fly with your arms out in front of you and try to arch and look up (don't sink out). With wings, you can learn to hang on your wings to help look up. I arch like a mofo on most tandem videos. It's really an awkward position to fly on your belly to get that good shot with the looking up angle. I'm light and I almost always wear weight with my wings. My guideline for weight is: Take the total tandem weight (without gear), divide by two, subtract my weight without gear, divide that by two and that's how much weight I'll wear, give or take a little for the passenger's build (tall & lenky vs. short and stocky). So if the TM is 200 and the passenger is 180, a total of 380, and I weigh about 160, (380/2 - 160 = 30) I'll wear 15 lbs. Sounds like a lot, but I'm tall and have a lot of surface area. But, that's just what works for me, with wings. If that number goes above my weight belt, 18 lbs, then I'll jump without wings, and no more than 10 lbs. This rule doesn't work for everyone, it's just what I've found that works for me. I don't arch that well to begin with, so the weight makes it easier for me. Most of the other videographers here rarely wear weight. Having a real camera suit (slick suit, booties and big wings) helps also. I jump a freefly camera jacket, that, even with my wings collapsed, is very slow. You will figure out what works for you, just try to get lower and look up. This also helps with lighting. Especially midday when the sun is straight up, the more you get under the tandem and fill the entire frame with their body and face, the camera will adjust it's light balance and you will have less shadows. 4 - I never look at my alti when filming a tandem. First of all, the TM should be opening around 5000ft, there's your first clue. TM's should initiate emergency procedures by 3500ft, which if you see that happening, you should be tracking away, at which point, your job of filming the tandem is done, clear your airspace and check your alti. And even easier, use an audible (or two). 5 - Drogue shots are a nice variety to throw in the video after you've gotten a good 10 seconds of the money shot, the close face shot. I shoot the drogue by popping up (again, easier with wings) and staying in close proximity to the tandem, still only 3 or 4 feet away from the drogue. As I pop up, I change the center of my sighting to rise half way up the drogue as I go all the way up and a few feet higher than the drogue. Done correctly, this keeps the tandem in the bottom of the frame and brings the drogue into the top of the frame. Then when I drop back down, I use my momentum to get very very low on the tandem, looking way up, and popping the wings out so i'm almost vertical and get the entire drogue behind them from underneath. It takes practice also. You're drogue shot is not bad, as you drift away from the tandem, adjust your sighting so the center of the drogue bridle becomes the center of your framing, and as you get back closer, go back to focusing on their face. If you don't pop up for the drogue-shot, a nice orbit shot slightly above the TM while the TM spins in the opposite direction, that shows the scenery, and most customers like that. Bottom line, you gotta see their face clearly. Everything after that is icing. A tandem video is easy. A good tandem video is challenging. And you asked about editing, seriously, a linear editing board is the easiest and fastest way to get the video to the customer shortly after their jump. A good one has a few effects you can through in for a nice touch as well. Non-linear (ie, on a computer) editing for tandem videos is overkill if you ask me. have fun! lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #42 October 21, 2004 WHat she said. Lew, that was a very generous gift of your time to respond like that. Lower. If you can't see the chest strap on the tandem, you are not low enough. Low enough is when you can see hip straps, chest strap, and drogue. I also think your lens is too wide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j3zz 0 #43 October 22, 2004 Lew thanks for the time you took to write such a complete repsonse, I have saved it as a word doc for future ref. The vignetting only shows up on a PC not on the TV but the corner of the helmet does, I have bumped in the zoom to remove both of these and will see how it goes. Thanks again Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j3zz 0 #44 October 22, 2004 Paul What lens would you recommend? Thanks Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #45 October 22, 2004 Paul is Quade, but if you are asking me (I'm JP, the older , suaver, handsomer one) I'd suggest the Diamond .3 or .5 if you are wanting to spend some money. The lens you have is fine, but a little fisheye-ish. Just zoom it in a little. You'll generally want it to match the field of view of whatever stills camera you end up using. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j3zz 0 #46 October 22, 2004 Sorry JP, Thanks for the advise "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #47 October 23, 2004 some more unsolicited advice? Too many video flyers are using a wideangle that is way to freaking wide. Watching little people far away just sucks. A truly great contemporary videographer who uses no wideangle at all is Greg Gasson. I know i push my product a little hard here, but if you click my sig line and download the free preview of last years holiday boogie, you'll see a really cool bit of video where Greg goes under an RW group in perfect timing with a deck of industrial haze. With no Wideangle at all. They can be a crutch. Get good without it, and then use wideangle and zoom as tools in your camera flying toolbox. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #48 October 23, 2004 all good info. i agree except i don't think a sony .6 would be anything like a kenko .43 (couldn't be, could it?) and the drouge shot should be taken from completely below the tandem so all you can see is the customer and the drouge and the tandem masters face sticking out from behind! that is the money shot if you ask me. (need wings though) i would get a .6 if i were you though it would be far less demanding in your flying i also beleive a fish eye is an overkill too. swoop hard bro."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #49 October 24, 2004 QuoteToo many video flyers are using a wideangle that is way to freaking wide. jp, i use a dimond knock off thatis .3 and i find it workd great... i have to be closer than i was when i was using my .45 but i like not having to switch lenses from a fun jump to a paid jump..... for me it's all about knowing where the framing is and what it's gona look like on the screen vs the air...... but i got a long way stil go get the stuff you and lew get....... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #50 October 24, 2004 Bah. If you can get close enough, and like the curvature, use the .3. That is the lens I usually use, but I zoom it to about a .6 or back it off depending on whether I'm shooting a 20mm or a 14mm still lens. If I am inside, or know I'm going to be close, I can back it off. I agree that it is the most versatile lens, all around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
