First attempt at videoing tandem

[j3zz 0]

This weekend had my first opportunity to go out with a tandem and video. Purely for my own experience.

My main goal was just to fly relative with the tandem and be safe. If I got anything on video that was a bonus.

In that regard I had the student in frame the whole dive, but with my setup I cut the instructor out quite a lot. Lot looking up steep enough or maybe a bit low on the whole thing talking a foot or 2 max.

My setup is a 2K FFX side mount, I have just ordered a ring sight I was using a sticker in my goggles but to be fair not even trying to hard to sight the tandem, just fly with it.

I am also using a 0.43 Kenko and after reading some post think I ought to go to a 0.5 or even no lens?? if I want to do decent tandem, I was flying extremely close to the tandem the instructor kept telling me to come closer he told me afterwards that he wanted to dock me.


I got some nice footage and I guess with a whole lot more it can only get better.

I was really stoked and am now going to put in a big effort to get good enough to make a sellable product.

Still need loads of skills and also some basic editing tips.

With regard to that my current camera has very few effect, and I cannot afford a PC so was wondering about getting an editing board, I want to be able to add titles, music and also do a cross fade ( I want that alti shot), thats all I think is required to make a nicely edited vid. Any suggestions on suitable pieces of kit


Just thought I would share my stoke and get some useful tips. Any comments welcome

Before anyone goes off on my jump numbers the TI knows me and it was a perfectly safe jump, and fun.
I have done around 120 jumps since March 04

"Now I know why the birds fly"
Hinton Skydivers

[vdschoor 0]

It's experience, your lens is fine you just need to find out waht the right spot is to look at and how close you need to be, this will be the same with a ring sight.
I am flying with a .5 and even with that lens I had to work my way into the right spot, and then you move closer to fill the frame

Beeing low on the tandem is where you want to be, slightly low in front of them, there's no need to be filming the "backpack", at least that is what I think.. flying level with them doesn't make for very good video.

Just keep practicing, and be safe, you're pretty current but still a bit low on jump numbers.
I am surprised they let you go out with tandems, at my dz the rules were clear... at least 300 jumps and 50+ on your camerasuit before you're allowed to fly with the tandems.

Keep practicing, and just a small piece of advice... don't touch the instructor for at least another 50-100 tandem vids..

Iwan

[rhys 0]

your lense is quite wide for begining so you will have to be flying pretty close to keep the action in the footage. you must be flying pretty close though if you cut the tandem out of you footage! the trick to good framing is to fly the right distance and aim between the instructor and the passenger if you are in front and the customers head if you are slightly below and looking up!dont worry about you jump numbers you have plenty of experience tandem is the easiest most predictable thing to jump with! your camera should have plenty of effects to work with overlaps digital effects etc. and basic editing boards are cheap from an electronics store you just use your camera and a vcr with a md player etc. if you dock with the tandem try this, grab their right hand with your left (or vice versa) then drop you knees and you will pull the tandem around in circles! before you let go drive back in with your legs so you don't get flung away! it is a blast for everyone and it looks mean on the footage and the punter gets to get interactive which they love! remember to film the whole opening and track on your back while doing so.
the main thing is to relax, have fun and not try 'too hard' any muppet can film tandems it just takes practice like every thing else!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Deuce 1]

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any muppet can film tandems it just takes practice like every thing else!

And the really cool part about docking and spinning the tandem is when the tandem passenger grabs you and won't let go and you get flipped back into an entanglement with the drogue. Fun for all!

You're wideangle is fine. How you progress is your decision, but using no wideangle means you'll have generally poor exit shots, and a nicely framed wideangle exit shot in slow-motion is a high point of just about any tandem video.

Also, slowly progressing from no wideangle to a .5 or whatever you settle on is like learning to play basketball with the hoop down at child level, and then re-learning when it gets moved up to NBA height (I know you are in the UK, but I don't know squat about cricket or soccer)

Your post sounds like you are taking a disciplined, incremental approach, so keep it up! Find a tandem video that you really like and work at your skills until you can duplicate it.

[j3zz 0]

Question

at the moment my camera picks up a very slight section of my helmet I was thinking that if I just bump in the zoom a touch it will fix that and give me a small amount more room to work with ie I can still get a picture from a little further away..

Is that a feasible solution.

As for having to fly close to the tandem with my current lens I kind of like that as it should be easy to get a feel for the distance. Not that it will be easy to stay totally constant at it thats where the practice comes in.

So I am now thinking stick with the current lens and just get the desired result by flying it right.

My lens has a slight fish eye effect, is this desirable for tandem or a real no-no?

It is a kenko 0.43 semi-fish eye

Would I be better with an lens that does not distort?
Or is it personal preference

Jezz

"Now I know why the birds fly"
Hinton Skydivers

[Deuce 1]

Quote

Question

at the moment my camera picks up a very slight section of my helmet I was thinking that if I just bump in the zoom a touch it will fix that and give me a small amount more room to work with ie I can still get a picture from a little further away..

Is that a feasible solution.

-Yes. I call it bump-zooming. Just bring the zoom in enough to cut out the helmet. After you've done that, look through the lens and move the camera mounted in the helmet from side to side. If it's a Sony, the stabilization mechanism will shift the view from side to side also, and may bring the helmet edge in. Make sure when you move the helmet, the viewfinder does not show the edge of the helmet.


So I am now thinking stick with the current lens and just get the desired result by flying it right.

-That's my feeling. My opinion is that taking the time to master flying like an amateur just slows down your progression to flying like a pro.

My lens has a slight fish eye effect, is this desirable for tandem or a real no-no?

It is a kenko 0.43 semi-fish eye

Would I be better with an lens that does not distort?
Or is it personal preference

-Absolutely personal preference. Odds are this will be the only video the customer has that is all-fisheye, all-the-time, so it will be a novelty for them. I get real tired of fisheye real fast, so I don't use one.

[tonyhays 86]

I'm using a 2K composite FFX as well, but using a diamond .3 wide angle lens. I don't get any of the helmet in the shot. But I told them that's what wide angle lense I was using, so maybe they somehow adjusted for that.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[riggerrob 563]

Sounds like you framed it perfectly.
The student pays for the video and deserves to be the center of every shot.
Who cares how large or handsome or hairy or smelly the TI is?
He is just an AAD with a big ego!
Hah!
Hah!

As for the TI inviting you to dock ... scares the shorts off of me!

[rhys 0]

you guys need to harden up! i have filmed approx 900 tandems and docked with at least half of them!
never a problem!

the important thing is to let the customer know you are going to do it and 'only' do it if the cutomer is comfortable in freefall!

to cut the head off the tandem master is cool for the close up shot but remember the all important photos they look poos if the framing is not right!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[vdschoor 0]

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you guys need to harden up! i have filmed approx 900 tandems and docked with at least half of them!
never a problem!

I agree with you that it is not a problem, I just think it shouldn't be done on a first attempt to video a tandem.
A lot of people laugh about filming tandems, and I partially agree with most of the jokes about how easy it is.
The thing with filming tandems though is that it is VERY different from other kind of filming, and you are flying in close proximity of two people, of which only 1 knows what's going on.

If something funny happens on a normal skydive (you fall on top of the formation or whatever) these things are recoverable, and you are not immediately putting lives at risk (although you could)
with a tandem if something funky happens and you take out the tandem instructor or somehow hit the drogue.. whatever.. think of anything, you are endangering not only your life, also the TI and the passenger's life.

On top of that, there is a difference in tandem videos, there are different standards at different places. The video concession owner at my dz (Byron) is VERY picky as to how the video should look and it is very challenging to get him what he likes, the right angle, the right shots e.a.

Keep flying, keep practicing, and above all BE SAFE, you're not alone up there.

Sorry for the rant here, but comments like "every muppet can film a tandem" set me off.. Yes they can, but not every muppet can deliver a tandem video that's worth the customer's money.

Iwan

[AggieDave 6]

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you guys need to harden up! i have filmed approx 900 tandems and docked with at least half of them!
never a problem!

Just because you never had a problem doesn't make it safe.

According to your profile, you're not a TI.

Something to remember is docking on a student by a video guy is up to the TI, it doesn't matter how cool you think it is, if the TI doesn't want you to, don't.

Speaking of that, docking on a student doesn't do anything for the video and most of the times tandems student's only half way know whats going on. That's a dangerous combination, people have been hurt doing that before.



As for cutting the TI out of the shot...who cares. I don't care if I'm in the video as long as my student has a cool video with their smiling face on it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Cacophony 0]

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Speaking of that, docking on a student doesn't do anything for the video and most of the times tandems student's only half way know whats going on. That's a dangerous combination, people have been hurt doing that before.

I used to dock on the tandem passenger on occasion. It all depended on the person and TI. A few people commented on how awesome it was, but most people seemed to prefer the clearer video. I usually stay pretty far back for my tandem videos. Cutting off limbs just doesn't look all that great to me. Showing the entire tandem gives it a greater sense of where you are in my opinion because it doesn't feel so closed off as if you were right in their face. Just a thought....

[AndyMan 7]

Docking on the student does provide value - not to the video, but to the stills. It presents an opportunity to get good close-ups that would otherwise be hard to frame because of small movements. Close-ups shot with a hand dock are better framed because the camera flyer is more stable relative to the student.

Not that I'm recomending it for this new camera flyer. While it helps get good still close-ups, it's very dificult to do without hosing the framing on your video. The tendency is for new camera flyers to focus (frame) on the dock instead of the students face. It takes a lot of practice to reliably take the dock while remaining focused on the students face.

People have commented here that video'ing tandems is easy. I'd agree with one caveat: It's easy to do mediocre video. It's very difficult to do really good tandem video. I'm lucky (?) that my DZ has very high standards for their tandem video. I can't stress how much I've learned since I started doing it...

I usually take hand docks. I'll explain to the student in the plane "If I offer my hand, take it like this: . If I shake, let go". We usually do this around 10,000 feet - with ample opportunities to deal with a student who won't let go.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[bigway 4]

Instead of posting a thread, i am thinking this might be a good time to ask?
Have any of you ever hit a drogue being deployed? i am thinking it will be like hitting concrete and am just wondering if i am correct on that.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Zee 0]

I took a drogue to the face on exit once. First time I ever filmed a tandem master that did a back flip out the door - Fuckin' thing whacked me square in da' face. The good thing was that it wasn't inflated yet - We played it back in slo-mo and saw that it was still wrapped up and it didn't inflate until after it bounced off my face.

It was pretty funny, actually. A good tip - Arch like a mad-bastard in to the relative wind on exit - if you time your exit correctly, you'll be slightly below but only a few feet away when the TM tosses the drogue. If you're below the tandem, the drogue will miss ya every time.

Peace,
Z

Action©Sports

[lewmonst 0]

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Something to remember is docking on a student by a video guy is up to the TI, it doesn't matter how cool you think it is, if the TI doesn't want you to, don't.

Speaking of that, docking on a student doesn't do anything for the video and most of the times tandems student's only half way know whats going on. That's a dangerous combination, people have been hurt doing that before.

I dock, not so much for the video, but for the student's experience. If it's ok with the TI, I'll brief the student about it and if and only if the tandem is stable and the student is aware enough to put a hand out, I will grab their hand and spin the tandem pair. I can't tell you how many times when I've asked the student when they landed what was their favorite part they say when I spun them. I've had other tandem passengers who I didn't video find out and be jealous. I don't think it adds much to the video or stills. The spin looks cool on video in slow mo, but it's more important to get the money shot sinking low and looking up at them before docking. It's all about the experience of the passenger.

That being said, I still only dock about half the time for one reason or another. Most of the time that I don't dock is because the students arms and hands are way back and they are not aware enough. Other times I don't dock because the TI is fighting the students body position the entire skydive, or they are chipping. Sometimes the heads-up TI's take the students hand and reach it out for me. A few times the TI's grab my hand, which I don't like and think serves no purpose whatsoever.

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[Deuce 1]

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A few times the TI's grab my hand, which I don't like and think serves no purpose whatsoever.

It's just Ed's way of letting you know he thinks you're pretty and he has a crush on you.

[Fuzzy 0]

I'm going to agree with the people here who are saying to be cautious about docking on the tandems.

Since most of our tadems are from 9,000', it doesn't leave lots of extra time for things over and above the standard "happy face" shots.

I do it when we have the altitude (Otter visits etc) & then only if conditions are just "right" i.e. comfortable fall rate - 'cause they do vary considerably, a heads up passenger, & most importantly an "OK" from the TI. I also do tandems and know that there are times when I would prefer not to have someone else too close. When things aren't going quite right (flailing passenger etc) the last thing the TI needs is me trying to grab on.

Also keep in mind that the passenger changing his/her body position can change the tandems fall rate in "mid grab"

As for the editing equipment: We use an effects board, character generator, CD player, DVD recorder / VHS deck. We have found this to be the fastest most efficient way of getting the package to the cust (usually 20 min's or so after landing they are watching it). Keep in mind that this all probably all cost as much or more than a good PC

Btw: Sony .6 lens works for me, not so wide that the exit looks miles away, yet wide enough to get in close and still catch the action

Fuzzy
Ambition / Ability: Know the difference.

[diablopilot 2]

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It's all about the experience of the passenger.

It's all about the SAFTEY of the passenger.

I have had Videographers:

Cork and strike my student.

Still be hanging on while I'm trying to get the student to pull.

Still be hanging on while I'm pulling.

Scare students by coming too close.

I am not totaly against docks, but it should be understood they are never required, and often detract from the experience. As a Videographer I don't do them.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diverds 0]

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I can't tell you how many times when I've asked the student when they landed what was their favorite part they say when I spun them.

I have had the same experience so I always try to dock if it works out. I think the important thing is to know when it is safe to do so and make sure you have your other freefall shots already in the bag.

(edit for quote)

Skydive Radio

[Zee 0]

I agree that safety has to come first but, I also agree with Lew that it's also about adding some excitement for the student. A simple hand dock doesn't do much if you ask me. I almost always dock and spin the pair around a few times and on occasion, I'll flip over on my back and spin'em around while holding the students hand - great way to get extreme angles and it's also good for those priceless student expressions.

You have to keep in mind that it's the TM that rules the world when you're working with tandems. The video guys at San Marcos are fortunate to work with tandem masters that have thousands upon thousands of jumps (not to mention other video guys who'll let you know EVERY time you fuck up) and, more often than not, they enjoy some extra carticluar activity on our part too. If the TM isn't comfortable with you goofin' around and isn't completely confident with your level of experience, they'll make you aware of it and you have to take it down a notch.

I'd hold back on the antics until you're very proficient and you've experienced first had just how unpredictable Tandems can be. But, once you've established good rapport with the TM's and you're on the same page, let it rip and have some fun
Peace,
Z

Action©Sports

[diablopilot 2]

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I'd hold back on the antics until you're very proficient and you've experienced first had just how unpredictable Tandems can be.

Uh-huh.

I don't see it as adding much to the student's jump. You want to add to the experience? Get them involved. Teach them something. Give them the ability to see just a bit of what they might experience if they cam back to learn how to do this.

I simply don't agree that a dock by a videographer adds anything.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Zee 0]

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You want to add to the experience? Get them involved. Teach them something. Give them the ability to see just a bit of what they might experience if they cam back to learn how to do this.

I simply don't agree that a dock by a videographer adds anything.

You're just scared the video guy is gonna take your ass out

All kidding aside though, it's been my experience that the student has much more fun when the TM and the video guy work together as a team - not just in the air but on the ground and on the ride to altitude as well.

The footage turns out much better when you both have an idea of what the final product should look like (good video guys often make very good TM's) i.e facing the sun, rotating in opposite directions, shaking hands, making dumb faces etc.....

If a dock works into the grand scheme of things, it looks good - If it's not done well and the camera guy flips over the freakin' tandem, well, then it ain't so good.

I just think of what I would want my video to look like if I were forkin' up the dough and work from there.

Just my 2 cents,
Z

Action©Sports

[diablopilot 2]

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You're just scared the video guy is gonna take your ass out

Probably, as I've been taken out before!

Of course when I was a gree videographer there may have been a moment or two of incidental contact on an exit or three......

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[lewmonst 0]

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I simply don't agree that a dock by a videographer adds anything.

I've got the video proof that it does in many, many interviews after the jump.

You just don't like it cause you can't do it.

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com