siddacious 0 #1 July 31, 2008 I've been into RW, specifically 4-way pretty much from the moment I saw a video of Perris Fury turning vertical blocks on the hill at Nationals. It blew my mind. I think you could say that I became a 4-way junkie from that day. Since that day, I've found myself wondering things like: What/who first did a vertical transition on a block? first started turning points while on the hill? Came up with the idea of 'slots'? Had the first 20 point score? Was the first team to break a 20 point average? Going earlier, who came up with the idea of what we now know as blocks? Who did the first 4-way? Who named all the formations? I'm sure there way well be no certain answers for many of these and similar questions, but they certainly beg to be asked. If you know the answers to any of these questions, or similar milestones, or know someone who might, I would love to hear it.A dolor netus non dui aliquet, sagittis felis sodales, dolor sociis mauris, vel eu libero cras. Interdum at. Eget habitasse elementum est. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
padu 0 #2 July 31, 2008 Very interesting questions... While I don't know the answer, with the advent of self-publishing houses such as blurb.com and lulu.com, it would be really great if someone would take the time to do a proper research and edit a book along the same lines...Una volta che avrete imparato a Volare, camminerete sulla terra guardando il cielo perchè è là che siete stati ed è là che vorrete tornare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #3 July 31, 2008 Quote first started turning points while on the hill? Came up with the idea of 'slots'? Had the first 20 point score? Was the first team to break a 20 point average? Tommy Piras is commonly attributed as being the father of modern 4-way. I'm sure there are many people who could argue that, but Tommy is the person who had teams consistently turning 15 pts. His teams were out of Deland. Look up Air Bears, Deland Gang, and I'm sure there are others. Jack Jeffries got his start with Tommy. Tommy had been on one of the first really good 4 way teams out in Arizona. I believe it was called Desert Heat. Some of his other 4 way teammates went on to form an 8 way team that was sponsored by Coors. Quote Who did the first 4-way? The first RW focused on building 8ways or 10 ways. I know Tommy was one of the first actively involved in making 4 way happen. I don't know what he did before Desert Heat Quote Who named all the formations? I believe the French aero assocation names everything these days.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #4 August 1, 2008 You might find this web page an interesting read: http://www.ParachuteHistory.com/ ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #5 August 1, 2008 Parachutist Mag, in the 80s, published an article called, "On the Hill" or something like that. I think before that most of us didn't even realize there was a hill . . . NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #6 August 3, 2008 I'll answer one you asked, and some you didn't... I think the first modern 4-way at the nationals was 1977. When I say modern I mean that was essentially like today's rules. Prior to that the competition was what many people call hog-flop 4-way -- 4-way, backloop, 4-way -- based on the time to build the second formation after breaking the first. Teams were doing transitions on the hill immediately under the new rules. Initially competition was out of Cessna 182 aircraft for several years. I don't know when it went out of other planes. Judging was ground-based video. I don't know when it went to in-air video. Blocks were in modern 4-way from the beginning, although block transitions were specified for an entire dive, not just two points on a dive. See attached 1979 divepool. (I particularly like sequence #7). One big difference between then and now was that the formations had to look like the diagrams (although they could be mirror imaged). For example, a cat had to be straight, without reaching across and "cheating" grips. It made it slower. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #7 August 3, 2008 Quote- Initially competition was out of Cessna 182 aircraft for several years. I don't know when it went out of other planes. Judging was ground-based video. I don't know when it went to in-air video. I have a Norman Kent production video from Nationals 1988 here. I believe it's the first air-to-air video for our USPA Nationals competition. 4-way jumps alternated out of a C-182 and an Otter. Some 8-way jumps were out of the DC-3 with the cameraflyer following the formation out the door. Amazing stuff! Some competition cameraflyers listed that may catch your eye: Norman Kent Michael McGowan Bill Beaver ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #8 August 4, 2008 Located my copy of that 1988 Nat's. Correction and addition of the cameraflyer's names that flew that competition. Thomas Adanski Roland Barksdale Bob Buerher Jeff Cook Marty Cooper Wayne Flemmington Monty Groutage Bruce Hofer J.J. Johnson Norman Kent (also the producer of this VHS) Todd Lorenzo Kevin S. Peyton Roger Pickens Richard T. Powell Tom Sanders Steve Scott Van Widerman Gus Wing (BSBD) It'd be fantastic to hear stories from that USPA Nat's and how it went down. What was it like to fly camera for the first air-to-air U.S. Nationals? The exits were wicked...ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siddacious 0 #9 August 4, 2008 Awesome! These are just the types of details that I was hoping for.A dolor netus non dui aliquet, sagittis felis sodales, dolor sociis mauris, vel eu libero cras. Interdum at. Eget habitasse elementum est. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #10 August 4, 2008 while it may not directly answer your questions the page of skratch garrison (who is also posting here, though not on a regular base) answers some and gives some insight on what RW can be besides turning points. enjoy the read! The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #11 August 11, 2008 Who did the first 30point, first 40-point, and 50-point 4-way? YouTube: A 50-point 4-way My tunnel coach is a member of the Canadian champion team (TEAM EVOLUTION) - one of the very few in the world who did a 50 points 4-way in 35 seconds, including something like 10 points on the 'hill'. I can only begin my first point after they've already completed 10. Pretty damn awesome. Granted, the 50-pointer were easy blocks, to help inflate the numbers, but they do a damn good more complex 30-point or 40-point 4-way too. I love the Golden Knights and Airspeed, etc too! Am curious who reached which point milestones first, and when. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P-dro 0 #12 August 12, 2008 AFAIK, the current official record is 44 points, held by a russian team, Black Cats... I am wrong ? The previous record was 42 from French National four way team in Pujaut 2002, they had already broken the one second per point wall in 1997 with a 36 points jumps Otherwise I think. that Deland Fire posted a 47 point FMPOE jump at the Shamrock en 2006 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 August 12, 2008 There are a few teams that have video of practice jumps over 50 in time. I'm sure this is what Mark is talking about. For a world record, it has to occur during a sanctioned competition to be official I have a download of a Hayabusa practice jump that looks to be a 52......(for example) FMPOE is one of my favorites - we've WAY over trained it because it's fun and we have the engineering down. Any draw even close to that really messes with my mind. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #14 August 15, 2008 That's good stuff. Thanks for sharing that.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P-dro 0 #15 August 15, 2008 Quote FMPOE is one of my favorites - we've WAY over trained it because it's fun and we have the engineering down. Any draw even close to that really messes with my mind. Yeah, we too ;-) Some other fast draws we like: BFLAN (2002 France World Record), KOCHF... We usually conclude the training days with that kind of fast random jump... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 August 15, 2008 QuoteQuote FMPOE is one of my favorites - we've WAY over trained it because it's fun and we have the engineering down. Any draw even close to that really messes with my mind. Yeah, we too ;-) Some other fast draws we like: BFLAN (2002 France World Record), KOCHF... We usually conclude the training days with that kind of fast random jump... BFLAN was our 'frequent' jump 2002 - 2005 ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #17 August 17, 2008 airspeed did 55 on 6/20, round 5, H9FM http://www.skyleague.com/pages/teams/showTeam.php?team=529 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzle 0 #18 August 17, 2008 That was a tunnel comp though, which tend to score a bit higher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #19 August 18, 2008 Oh, did not know that it was a tunnel comp... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elightle 8 #20 August 18, 2008 Quote That was a tunnel comp though, which tend to score a bit higher Still... 55 points in 35 seconds is impressive, tunnel or no tunnel. It shows how well Airspeed works together and how mentally sharp and focused they are, not to mention some great athleticism Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
