caitie 0 #1 June 2, 2005 Any inside centers out there looking for a team? Unfortunately, Elsinore Alloy just lost a team member -- but we're looking to bounce back quickly and keep training hard. With John Hamilton (former Airspeed, Lake Elsinore co-DZO) as player coach, this is an excellent opportunity for someone to step into a solid team, with professional coaching built in. And, Alloy just took Intermediate Gold at the latest SSL with an average of 12.2! So, anyone interested in joining a super fun team please contact me at [email protected] or Hammo at [email protected] -- the sooner the better! Thanks! Caitie http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/alloy/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #2 June 3, 2005 Can I jump with ya? I wanna be OC, though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 June 3, 2005 Are you guys getting any flak being in intermediate with a P/C? We have locals that get bent when a P/C is on an Advanced team instead of Open. I can't imagine the response for that with an Intermediate team. Personally, I don't much care, but I am interested in the general attitude at year-round DZs on this issue. It's tough to replace an IC. It's the heart of the team for most. I wish I was in your area, I'd try out - IC is a very fun slot and just 'owns' the exits. Good Luck ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #4 June 3, 2005 Hey all, this is DEFinitely a great opportunity for someone to step into a fun, driven team already built. I was on Elsinore Adrenaline with John Hamilton as player-coach in 2003, and it was one of the most rewarding years of 4-way I've ever done. I can't say enough good things about it. Plus, Caitie and Morgan (Alloy point and tail) rule-- HIGH QUALITY PEEPS! QP! Melanie Curtis Elsinore Gravity __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #5 June 3, 2005 Bummer! You guys did so well the last meet and this sucks for you. I will ask around PErris this weekend for ya and see if anyone is looking.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #6 June 3, 2005 QuoteWe have locals that get bent when a P/C is on an Advanced team instead of Open. I can't imagine the response for that with an Intermediate team. LAst years Intermediate winners (no player coach) beat out a few teams that had really good Player coaches. THe team can only fly as well as the weakest jumper. Yes there is something to be said for the abilities of the PC. But the bottom line is everyone else on the team has to fly their slot.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #7 June 3, 2005 QuoteTHe team can only fly as well as the weakest jumper. Yes there is something to be said for the abilities of the PC. But the bottom line is everyone else on the team has to fly their slot. I agree. That being said, PC teams are a great way to learn more quickly. Having a coach in there every single jump, every single debrief, every single camp--- you really have no choice but to get better. That's the goal, anyway! __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 June 3, 2005 Dom - You got that right. I wish we had some pros in our area for just that reason. For that matter BC's insight in just one weekend (a couple ago when the Otter showed) of 'leeching' his knowledge and advice has done wonders for our little DZ - and my team in particular if last weekend's practice is any indicator. We're extremely grateful. And you guys have him year 'round. Oh, and one of your co-workers is flying her butt off compared to when she left to go move out to your region. I did get one jump with C and it's cool to see it. Very impressive. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apincus 0 #9 June 3, 2005 I do not really care about what class a professional skydiver competes in. However, make no mistake a team is as good as the whole team, not the weakest skydiver. Trust Me, Good Skydivers can do a lot to compensate for somebody not in thier slot, or not making the correct move. Good luck w/ your team. IC's are hard to find these days. Seems like their is an abundance of front half folks. I'm sure Hammo can fly anyslot. You may want to find a good skydiver who wants to learn, and take advantage of a great opportunity to fly with your team. Alex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 June 3, 2005 QuoteTrust Me, Good Skydivers can do a lot to compensate for somebody not in thier slot, or not making the correct move. I gotta agree with this point when it's a good skydiver and a more intermediate or beginner teams. But I'm (little practical experience here) guessing that as the overall level of a team gets very high, then Dom is more correct. (i.e., I get torqued when people think Fire is 3 guns + Natasha - at that level, everybody has to be on. At that speed, the best people can't compensate for the others). My intermediate team is 9/10 type average (slow). Replace anybody on the team - even the 'best' jumper with a pro, and you bet we'd pick up at least a point right away and a couple with very few practices - maybe more. maybe a lot more - you can tell when we get the lucky chance to practice with a visiting coach or at the tunnel last March. What a great opportunity. It's a shame for Alloy's IC, but a great chance for someone new to learn a ton and fly well. Again, I hope that team can pick up someone and keep the momentum. Losing teammates midseason is the absolute worst - chemistry is so hard to find. Edit: Caitie - sorry to derail this to the same old P/C discussion. Any chance of bringing in a long distance teammate commuting from the midwest? I used to jump IC and know all the slots. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #11 June 3, 2005 QuoteHowever, make no mistake a team is as good as the whole team, not the weakest skydiver. Trust Me, Good Skydivers can do a lot to compensate for somebody not in thier slot, or not making the correct move. I agree that the Pc will give the others confidence and if they are Inside center they can make sure all the right angles are set to give the others the correect sopt to fly to......but...... You can put B.C. or Hammo or any of the best of the best on a team and they will still only fly as god as the weakest member. Let's just use a "C" as an example. IC can take the middle and do the best job ever, but if the point flyer can't park it in backwards... Well then the team is going to suffer for that. Caitie and her team are truly Intermediate jumpers (damn good ones). If they sucked then it doesn't matter who is the PC. B.C and Hammo are capable of 20's and this year they are doing 18's and 12's. That is because the weakest flier can only go that fast.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #12 June 3, 2005 QuoteOh, and one of your co-workers is flying her butt off compared to when she left to go move out to your region. I did get one jump with C and it's cool to see it. Very impressive. You are right about her. Did you see the last SSL scores? Her team did outstanding! Now if they can figure out if they are eligable(SP) for medals. They may be able to give it a go at the World Cup in the womans division. Back to the topic. My team tied Christopher Irwin's Pc team. With a 13.5. THey actually beat us with a 21 in round 5 to our 19 for third place, but we all know Christopher is capable of way more then that. It all evens out. QuoteI get torqued when people think Fire is 3 guns + Natasha - at that level, everybody has to be on. At that speed, the best people can't compensate for the others You and me both. I don't care how much money she can throw at it. She is a damn good flyer and that is that. I went to Eloy in Feb. for ameet and you should have heard all the shit tlaking going on. It really upset me. A bunch of folks were going off about her. I asked them what is it that pisses you off so bad? I asked them if they had the means are they telling me they wouldn't do the same thing she did? They all said they would. Bottom line it is jealousy and envy.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 June 3, 2005 QuoteHer team did outstanding! Can't tell - don't know the name. Are they 'element'? Edit: Next time you come out. I'd like to buy you a drink and make some jumps. Even so, I hope to arrange a team trip to Perris even if we skip nats this year. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #14 June 3, 2005 go here http://www.skyleague.com/pages/scores/index.php There name is Element Perris. I'll take you up on that drink. May have to be a soda. I went sober over a year ago. LEt me know if and when you make it out for team stuff. I smell a tunnel session coming on!!!!!!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #15 June 3, 2005 That's Right DOm we did put up a 21 But Damn it was a great competition! I am looking forward to the next oneChris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #16 June 3, 2005 That was the most fun I have had in a meet so far Chris. It would have been fun to do a jump off. Great job! Are you guys competing next month? You better. Did anyone find a IC for Alloy yet. Stay on topic damn it!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #17 June 3, 2005 Dom it was great. I think that there will be some damn strong teams for SoCal at Nationals. I am looking forward to seeing you guys take silver!! If I could I would jump with Alloy they are a great team. They work hard, skydive well and are honestly one of the best groups of people I have met. They have a great passion for 4-way and it makes seeing them do soo well all the more fun.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #18 June 4, 2005 Quote Are you guys getting any flak being in intermediate with a P/C? I like the Australian system. Intermediate is jump number limited: three of the team must have a cumulative total of 1500 jumps or less at the start of comp. It's deliberately set up so that there will be a P/C (though we use the term tutor). To my inexperienced mind it seems like a good way to impart knowledge... and even better, my DZ pays the tutor's slot for Inter teams that plan on competing at Nationals . (If you're reading this, thanks Phil!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caitie 0 #19 June 6, 2005 Thanks so much everyone for all of the good thoughts and well wishes -- we really appreciate it! To answer the PC question -- nope, we haven't caught any flak for having a player/coach on an intermediate team. Everyone has been incredibly supportive, particularly the local Elsinore and Perris teams. More than anything, I think people are happy for us and the wonderful opportunity we have in working so closely with such a talented coach and amazing teammate. Despite this recent bump in the road, this has been for me an incredible year with awesome teammates -- can't WAIT to train again (even though it's only been a week )! Caitie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #20 June 6, 2005 Caitie, as you know, I'm not skydiving anymore (for the time being), but I have been keeping track of the SSL meets. Caitie, you and Morgan are definitely reaping the rewards of hard work. Yes, everyone is so happy and proud of your team. You are inspiring to me, that's for sure. Hammo seems like the most incredibly awesome Player Coach, too! Anyway, I just wanted to write something in support of your team. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #21 June 6, 2005 QuoteTHe team can only fly as well as the weakest jumper. Yes there is something to be said for the abilities of the PC. But the bottom line is everyone else on the team has to fly their slot I was at an FSL meet 2003. A team had a person get hurt and Kurt asked me to fill in. This team had been doing a 9 avg all year. This meet they did an 11 avg and they claimed to have the best meet of their lives. The next meet with the regular back in place...a 9 average again. When I lost a teammate in 2002 we had members of Majic fill in to keep us going. Those jumps were much better than with our prior line up almost instantly."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #22 June 6, 2005 Still comes down to everyone had to fly there slot.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #23 June 6, 2005 QuoteStill comes down to everyone had to fly there slot. Yeah, but I made it easier, and the blocks went better since I could fly the piece....Also I had most keys made for better exits...ect. Do you think that if Craig Girard jumped on your team for a meet they would do better or worse than if you were in slot?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #24 June 6, 2005 QuoteDo you think that if Craig Girard jumped on your team for a meet they would do better or worse than if you were in slot? Of course they wouldn't do better without me!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #25 June 6, 2005 Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you think that if Craig Girard jumped on your team for a meet they would do better or worse than if you were in slot? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course they wouldn't do better without me! Joking aside... I think you would agree that if Girard filled your slot for a comp your team would score better. So if Michael Jordan is not allowed to play College ball, and you don't see Tom Novick (duke) playing in high school games. Why should a WC jumper be in a lower class? How would you feel if you were the favorite team in Advanced, and suddenly a guy buys three Great jumpers and smokes you?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
