dgskydive 0 #26 June 6, 2005 Obviously they would do better, but the bottom line is they stillhave to fly there slots. I know that a guy like Criag would improve any team a point or two, but it still comes back to each person flying there slot.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #27 June 6, 2005 QuoteObviously they would do better....I know that a guy like Criag would improve any team a point or two I don't see how you can say that and... Quotebut it still comes back to each person flying there slot Yeah, they have to fly their slot, but if he can add a point of two how is it fair? Like I said, you don't see Jordan playing College Bball."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #28 June 6, 2005 Fortunately, the whole player coach thing isn't a sensitive subject out there P/C do a few good things that I can see (from way out here in newbie land) 1 - they do provide a still place for the team to focus 2 - they see the picture better and compensate for others better 3 - they do control their whole piece for better block moves (HUGE). Shoot, I'm a mediocre 4-way flyer, but if I'm on with very new people, I can turn the whole freaking 3-way to shorten a recovery move for someone out and they don't usually even notice until they see it on video. I know that pros do this on a whole different and subtle level for someone like me. I've felt it in jumps. 4 - the teammates have on the spot training every single jump (HUGE) so they do get better faster as individuals 5 - when I jump with someone better, just the visual in front of me makes me fly faster and better (monkey see/monkey do). ie. I don't hold back as much yet still stay in control - it's an interesting phenomina 6 - only 3 people need to come up to speed instead of 4. 7 - no one argues during the debriefs 8 - the other 3 players are kept poor, so they don't have resources to focus on anything but 4-way. Obsession is a good thing here. in other words, the slowest player does do better as an individual, in a piece, and in the team context. so the PC has more of an effect than just being the best 'individual' flyer on the team. Similarly the PC brings up everybody both directly (handling and flying) and indirectly (side effects of confidence and learning). It's a great opportunity. Wish we had it here. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #29 June 6, 2005 Quotein other words, the slowest player does do better as an individual, in a piece, and in the team context. so the PC has more of an effect than just being the best 'individual' flyer on the team. Similarly the PC brings up everybody both directly (handling and flying) and indirectly (side effects of confidence and learning). It's a great opportunity. Wish we had it here. So if NC could afford to have Jordan back they should be allowed?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #30 June 6, 2005 QuoteSo if NC could afford to have Jordan back they should be allowed? Nope, - I think it's a great learning opportunity. I'm torn on those types of teams competing at anything under Open class because it still remains more about the team dynamic than who is a 20 point average capable person. I lean towards the category definition being based on point average criteria rather than team content. But that's a pain to debate/define also. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #31 June 6, 2005 Ronnie babe, PC's out here on the west coast are a welcome opportunity as we see it. We happen to have a lot of PCs out here which is probably why they are more accepted than elsewhere. . . Catie and Morgan have worked their butts off to be able to work with Hammo. . .I think it is awesome that he is there with them. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpwme 0 #32 June 7, 2005 Ok folks - thanks for hijacking an important thread. If you want to debate the PC issue - its been debated, killed, reborn, appealed to USPA, argued, reargued, drafted, redrafted, reappealed and over discussed more than any other topic in 4-way for the last 4 years. Let the PC issue go folks. Its hear to stay. USPA has made the very clear to us all. Only the ethical decisions about whether open class medalists should be on the podium in intermediate or advanced remain and thats up to each of us to decide on our own and with our teammates. Take it to another thread or Catie - repost a new one that is productive on your issue. Jumping off soap box. Now - back to business. Lets see what we can do about finding Alloy a new teamie for the rest of the season. PC or no PC, guest or whatever, this is a great learning experience for any Intermediate jumper. Keep the ears open. As Mel mentioned, these three are top flight people and great skydivers. . Steve GT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #33 June 7, 2005 QuoteRonnie babe, PC's out here on the west coast are a welcome opportunity as we see it It is a great learning environment. I never said otherwise. QuoteWe happen to have a lot of PCs out here which is probably why they are more accepted than elsewhere. . . Just because it is accepted does not make it right. QuoteCatie and Morgan have worked their butts off to be able to work with Hammo. . .I think it is awesome that he is there with them. . . And how about the teams Hammo coaches that he will be directly commpetting against...Is it fair for them to have to jump against their coach?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyPrincess2002 0 #34 June 8, 2005 Well said jmpwme! This thread was about Alloy needing a new team mate, not an Intermediate team bashing. Catie - any luck? I hope you find someone soon. We definitely are looking forward to tough competition - and fun teams to train beside. Wishing you guys the best. By the way - 8 way would be fun to join us together. Let us know if we can find at least 3 people from your team or elsinore. See you all at Poker Run.....yet another competition where the Stakes are high. Fluffy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
