When NOT to swoop a camera

[skybytch 259]

I've spent a bit of time standing still in the swoop lane with a camera while people that I trust swoop by feet away from me. I fully understand the risks of being out there, which is why I 'm only in the middle of the swoop lane when people I trust are landing. Other times, I stand at the edge of the swoop lane.

A few weeks ago I was standing at the edge of the swoop lane on the peapit side. Someone that I don't know was doing a 270 with a larger nine cell. Had he come down the middle of the swoop lane like I'd expected him to, I'd have likely gotten a few nice pictures. Instead, he came right at me.

When I realized he was going to be too close to get good pics, I brought the camera down. He was still coming at me. I bailed to the left (into the mud, thankyouverymuch) to avoid being taken out.

I didn't say anything to the jumper, but I did make a point of walking away from the landing area with the camera down when he was landing after that.

The point of this tale? If you aren't well known as an excellent and experienced canopy pilot, don't swoop a person that you don't know. And if you have never swooped a particular person before, don't do it without talking to them first.

The lighting was excellent that day. I'd have sent him some sweet pictures if he'd chosen to swoop the middle of the lane instead of choosing to swoop me.

[BMFin 0]

Inside the swooplane the swooper has the right of way for sure.. (unless you have agreed on it otherwise with everyone involved)

You did the right thing when you chose not to say anything to the jumper.

[Bolas 5]

If you'd just dropped to the ground, would he still have hit ya?

Nothing wrong with being a camera whore, but people need to remember to still use their brains.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[diablopilot 2]

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Inside the swooplane the swooper has the right of way for sure.. (unless you have agreed on it otherwise with everyone involved)

You did the right thing when you chose not to say anything to the jumper.

Yes and no.

No one should present an obstacle or danger to someone landing. And anyone who is within the landing area should be prepared to dive out of the way if a canopy pilot comes at them.

That said, no one ever has the right to fly their parachute in a manner that is likely to cause injury to another. If the swoop lane has people in it, maybe then a person needs to make the decision to land elsewhere safely.

If I were swooping a lane and there was a camera person standing to the edge of it, I'd hope for some good shots, but I wouldn't change my plan of swooping the lane, to swooping them, just for a geek shot. That sort of thing needs to be pre-arranged.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[adamT 0]

Read again, she wasn't in the lane she was on the edge. He chose to exit the lane and aim for her.
Besides one should know that unless the camera person is using a very wide lens your not going to get jack from them by swooping inches from them.

[frost 1]

could be that he was not aiming as much as he was not in control of his canopy at that point?...

I think anyone in the landing zone (not just a photographer) with incoming jumpers should always be on a look out. Dont relax until you get off that landing area. If you get hit by a guy under a 170 coming straight in it wont seem like candy, i am sure.

As far as photographers accepting certain risks is the price you pay to get nice shots for us to enjoy, no? :) Sometimes taking a great shot carries a certain level of risk, doesnt it?

[dragon2 0]

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Besides one should know that unless the camera person is using a very wide lens your not going to get jack from them by swooping inches from them.

Amen! I really don't mind getting swooped by people I know, but even so, I usually have a medium or more tele lens not a wide angle/macro lens

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[BMFin 0]

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If the swoop lane has people in it, maybe then a person needs to make the decision to land elsewhere safely.

Agreed, but if its not the previous swoopers who didnt have time to collect their gear, I would most likely talk with these people about keeping the swooping lane clear of obstacles.

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If I were swooping a lane and there was a camera person standing to the edge of it, I'd hope for some good shots, but I wouldn't change my plan of swooping the lane, to swooping them, just for a geek shot. That sort of thing needs to be pre-arranged.

Agreed, I would most likely swoop the lane too but I wouldnt want to hear any bitching from the camera person about swooping too close. I have the right of way. perioid.

[BMFin 0]

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Read again, she wasn't in the lane she was on the edge. He chose to exit the lane and aim for her.

I dont know what kind of lane was in question, but most of the times swoop lanes have blades separating the lane from the surrounding area. Therefore exiting the lane and aiming for someone outside the lane would mean the swooper would have to carve to the side between the blades (or hitting the blades) then I could call the swoopers actions questionable.. Though this was hardly the case..

[frost 1]

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I dont know what kind of lane was in question, but most of the times swoop lanes have blades separating the lane from the surrounding area.

On regular dropzones? Hardly ever. Most places i've seen it's just like the beer line - not far from spectators and not clearly marked. And just like the beer line the old timers move it to their liking.

- Hey you know that's the beer line!
- Where?
- Right there where you just landed!
- No it's not, come on.
- Yes it is! You just crossed it and thats a case of beer. I like Heineken's!
- Well then you better go buy some, you sneaky ol bastard!

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I have the right of way. perioid.

Doesn't matter who's right or wrong, you'll both be dead or seriously hurt if you collide.

If the pilot doesn't have the skill to avoid obstacles then they shouldn't swoop them. Period. Even then, remember, anyone can make a mistake, it only takes one and it's happened to better pilots than most of us.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[dharma1976 0]

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I dont know what kind of lane was in question, but most of the times swoop lanes have blades separating the lane from the surrounding area.

On regular dropzones? Hardly ever. Most places i've seen it's just like the beer line - not far from spectators and not clearly marked. And just like the beer line the old timers move it to their liking.

- Hey you know that's the beer line!
- Where?
- Right there where you just landed!
- No it's not, come on.
- Yes it is! You just crossed it and thats a case of beer. I like Heineken's!
- Well then you better go buy some, you sneaky ol bastard!

isnt the beer line like the hanger door at our dropzone mike?



Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[BMFin 0]

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I dont know what kind of lane was in question, but most of the times swoop lanes have blades separating the lane from the surrounding area.

On regular dropzones? Hardly ever. Most places i've seen it's just like the beer line - not far from spectators and not clearly marked. And just like the beer line the old timers move it to their liking.

If its not separated, I wouldnt call it a "swoop lane" I simply call it a landing area.

To me, swoop lane is an area that has entry gates and blades more less running on both sides of the lane, hence the name "lane"

[BMFin 0]

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I have the right of way. perioid.

Doesn't matter who's right or wrong, you'll both be dead or seriously hurt if you collide.

If the pilot doesn't have the skill to avoid obstacles then they shouldn't swoop them. Period. Even then, remember, anyone can make a mistake, it only takes one and it's happened to better pilots than most of us.

Blues,
Ian

I thought we werent talking about whether the ones involved would be hurt or not if a collision happened.

I was mostly talking about who is responsible in this kind of scenario and what kind of action is to be expeted from each to prevent any such possibilities...

[skybytch 259]

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I dont know what kind of lane was in question

It's a strip of asphalt that is known at the dz to be for the use of swoopers. Non-swoopers land in the large field next it. I was standing on the edge of the asphalt on the non-swooper landing area side of the lane, so that when I bailed it was into the non-swooper landing area. I was standing there prior to his setup, and I didn't move until I had to. He had a clear lane to swoop in.

I know the risks. I signed the waiver. This isn't about affixing blame. It's an attempt to remind some and maybe educate others about ways to prevent something that might make for an unpleasant and early end to what could have been a great day.

[JSE 1]

Lisa, don't let one bad apple spoil it for the rest...I hope one of these days you get a good shot of me under my new canopy

[phoenixlpr 0]

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A few weeks ago I was standing at the edge of the swoop lane on the peapit side. Someone that I don't know was doing a 270 with a larger nine cell. Had he come down the middle of the swoop lane like I'd expected him to, I'd have likely gotten a few nice pictures. Instead, he came right at me.

Have you agree upon this shooting before? I do share my plane of landing if I know that someone wants to take pictures about it. They know where to expect me from.

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When I realized he was going to be too close to get good pics, I brought the camera down. He was still coming at me. I bailed to the left (into the mud, thankyouverymuch) to avoid being taken out.

I think you did the right thing. I standing person is much better than a running person the swoop lane.

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The lighting was excellent that day. I'd have sent him some sweet pictures if he'd chosen to swoop the middle of the lane instead of choosing to swoop me.

He might have got some target fixation. Do you how is going with the kid on the bicycle and the tree?

Its nice to hear that both of you is fine.

[vdschoor 0]

Lisa,

I did yell at someone last weekend as well, for the very same reason (they would have taken me out) and I told them that I will make sure NOT to get video of them landing anymore.

Here's the thing, just because there is a camera there, it doesnt mean YOU need to do something to "help out" the photographer / videographer by setting up a certain swoop. Let the photographer take care of the shot, you just land your parachute.

I have worked with people on certain shots, asked them to do certain moves to get a shot, or I have told people this is what I am doing so they could be ready for it.

If you are IN the landing area it's a different story, but like Lisa said (I know the landing area in Davis) she was on the edge, and that person should not have "aimed" for the camera..

Iwan

[adamT 0]

You are wrong to think you have the right of way over stationary objects or people in the landing area. You are in control of the faster moving more maneuverable vehicle. In all forms of aviation that gives you less right of way. Please don't tell me your the type of person that yells at people to "watch out" on the ground while your on final.

[BMFin 0]

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You are wrong to think you have the right of way over stationary objects or people in the landing area. You are in control of the faster moving more maneuverable vehicle. In all forms of aviation that gives you less right of way.

So do you think its ok if you just go and stand in the middle of the runway of and tell all the airplanes wanting to land : "You are in control of the faster moving more maneuverable vehicle."

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Please don't tell me your the type of person that yells at people to "watch out" on the ground while your on final.

Please don´t tell me you are the type of person that goes having his sunday picnic on a swoop lane and actually considers anyone swooping the lane offending your privacy and endangering your ass...

[ianmdrennan 2]

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So do you think its ok if you just go and stand in the middle of the runway of and tell all the airplanes wanting to land : "You are in control of the faster moving more maneuverable vehicle."

No but they'll abort if they are unable to make a safe landing.

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Please don´t tell me you are the type of person that goes having his sunday picnic on a swoop lane and actually considers anyone swooping the lane offending your privacy and endangering your ass...

Adam is actually quite a good swooper. I've had the pleasure of watching him compete. I would say he's quite knowledgable on the subject.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[lilchief 0]

I'd go and talk to the person who did this and try to make him/her understand my concern and point of view. Instead of ignoring the person completely. We as a community does not serve any well if we don't speak to each other to try and reach an agreement. And when I mean speak, that does not mean bashing or ranting at someone and then walk away.

What was he/she thinking? What was his/hers plan? why did he/she do this? your opinion on how to avoid this in the future.

If the person is not listening at all or doing the same thing over and over again, I'd consider sanctions as grounding, have another authority at the DZ(instructor, DZO, very experienced skydivers on the subject etc) to talk to the person and at last ignore the person.

Face it, he/she may still go to another DZ and jump, doing the same things and MAYBE not realize what he/she had done wrong if you just ignore him/her. How would you feel then when knowing that you may have guided him/her on to the right path and avoiding an accident.

I'm very much for solving issues through communications , and not through "social norms". Not every one is on the same frequency.

just my 2 cents..

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[damion75 0]

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Inside the swooplane the swooper has the right of way for sure.. (unless you have agreed on it otherwise with everyone involved)

You did the right thing when you chose not to say anything to the jumper.

If you can't conduct basic canopy control (direction) then perhaps you should rethink swooping. And your canopy choice - it is clearly too fast for your mental processes.

That is all.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[TheSecret 0]

There are a whole lot of unwritten unspoken rules in this sport!? In life (skydiving or otherwise) I say pipe up and say something otherwise I guess it wasn’t that important. I’m never sure what’s accomplished by giving the cold shoulder. What happens if they run in to you next time? Are you going to yell at them from not understanding your silent and subtle form of communication.



Crap…I think I’m channeling my last fight with my significant other.

Life is good

[frost 1]

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Please don't tell me your the type of person that yells at people to "watch out" on the ground while your on final.

No, of course not. I will fly into you silently.

Let's not get into semantics here? There is NO reason for ANYONE to be in the landing area, unless they are doing something purposeful, like catching tandems or what have you. Landing area in not for idle time passing. What do the signs on the fence say? "Skydivers only beyond this point".