Straight-In Velocity landings

[Viking 0]

HMA? the lines that precision puts on there canopies? What purpose did that serve?

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[brits17 0]

Yes, it was relined by Precision. All lines are continuous, no cascades since the lines are super-thin. Most notably, it reduces drag.

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[Spizzzarko 0]

Get with me at the DZ on Sunday. Most of the people here on DZ.com have no real business giving advice.

Grant

[brits17 0]

I didn't know there was any advice to give... ? Just looked like a plain ol discussion to me.

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[ccowden 0]

I thought it was a pretty good discussion too, but I think I may have given SOME advice.

But what the hell do I know? Better leave the advice giving to the obviously seasoned, much more experienced veterns!

[karenmeal 0]

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with jumping a cross-braced canopy and not doing hook-turns. As long as you can land it in all types of circumstances that may occur during an emergency-type situation, what's the harm? Are there any emergency situations that require a front riser turn close to the ground? I can't really think of any....

The only thing that I can think of that you may not be practiced at, is landing with the additional speed that you would be used to dealing with from swooping. In the case of having to land downwind for whatever reason, can you handle your canopy with something like a 15 mph tailwind?

If the answer is yes, then I say keep jumping your canopy how you see fit! If you don't want to take the extra risks from swooping, but enjoy the way your velo lands straight-in, then that's sweet!

I can kinda relate to where you're coming from.. I am a mildly aggressive canopy pilot. I usually do between a 90 and 180 carving front riser turn and maybe 1/3rd of the time I use my rear risers for getting a longer swoop.

If conditions aren't perfect for me (gusty winds, too much traffic in the area..) then I am happy to just land my canopy straight in and shoot accuracy. I don't really like pushing the envelope too much.

I've got a relatively light wingloading, about 1.5 and I would like to go higher.. but I don't really want to jump a 75. That seems so small to me.. I would rather add weights for hop and pops.

Anyways.. enough circumlocuting. I say if that canopy is a safe choice for you, have fun with whatever type of landings you are comfortable with and forget the people who don't understand. Just call them names or something.. that always works for me.

Happy skydives.

-Karen

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[somethingbitme 0]

Thanks Spizzy!

[somethingbitme 0]

I think you guys aren't understanding that I am not here to get everyones permission to jump this canopy. I don't need that. I should have known better than to post something on dz.com asking for some information that might actually teach me something. Ha! (I am being a very tiny bit facetious but mostly truthful. I know you all have good intentions but this wasn't why I made the post. Oh and I am still waiting to hear from Brian Germain.) I thought maybe somewhere someone could teach me something about canopy flight, not tell me they think it's okay for me to stay on the canopy. I don't care what you say, this is what i jump.

[ccowden 0]

Ok. Forget I posted.

I didn't think I was doing anything but offering my insight into what your original post was about. Certainly wasn't trying to act like you need my permission to jump a canopy.

Was just trying to help by offering my opinion and insight, but apparently I totally missed what the point of your post was or something. By this statement: "I would really like to hear from people. So what do you guys think?" I could have swore you were asking for comments.

Maybe you should just have emailed Brian Germain.

[RMURRAY 1]

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So what do you guys think?

what a waste!

rm

[RMURRAY 1]

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Yes, it was relined by Precision. All lines are continuous, no cascades since the lines are super-thin. Most notably, it reduces drag.

except continous lines increase drag bigtime - even if they are thin. If it were better PD and Icarus would be doing the same!

rm

[crewkeith 0]

see sarah people dont really know you here. i do. you do just fine flying it and landing it. i would hope you would get coaching when you decide to really push on that canopy. its a pocket rocket when you piont it at the ground you seem to have respect for that canopy so i dont have an issue with how you fly it. bsbd
keith


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[somethingbitme 0]

I was trying to learn something about the mechanics of my canopy and the way it flies. All I have been hearing is 'Well sure you can jump that canopy.' Well yes I can. And I did email Brian. I wasn't trying to be rude. I guess I just miscommunicated what I was trying to accomplish by posting. I don't need reassurance. I am trying to learn about the speed my canopy needs to fly the way it was designed to. I guess what I've heard about dz.com is true and that's why I've only heard from a couple people worth listening to that even have a clue.

[karenmeal 0]

Sorry.. I was trying to back you up on your choice of canopies. I was just trying to be on your side. whoops..

It didn't seem like you were asking for advice on your canopy in your first post, it seemed like you were just stating that you liked landing your canopy straight in and that people told you that you should land it differently, but you already enjoyed your landings.

If you were asking for advice on how to fly your parachute the way it was designed, then I think that some of the input you got on up-sizing and then learning those skills was very appropriate.

Good luck with Brian though.. maybe you should have started by e-mailing him if you didn't want the opinion of people who haven't written books and don't do lectures on canopy controls.

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[Viking 0]

If you want to learn the mechanics i'd suggest you buy Brians book "The Parachute and its Pilot". I own it and its very insightful about the science of canopy flight and how things work.

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I am trying to learn about the speed my canopy needs to fly the way it was designed to.

The Velo was designed to swoop its why the canopy was created. If you want to fly it at the speeds it was designed for you have to start messing with the front risers. But what the hell do i know i'm a hundred jump wonder and an avid dz.commer ontop of that.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[garywainwright 0]

Taken from the velocity flight manual;
"a straight in approach feels
similar to an approach made with a small amount of front risers on a Stiletto. Many aggressive
pilots are afraid of straight in landings, but they can be accomplished quite well on the Velocity,
even at very high wing loadings, if the technique is right. You have lots of excess energy, which
makes it easy to level off and plane out for a long distance, if you get the technique and timing
right. A big part of the technique is to avoid the common mistake of being “twitchy” on the toggles
all the way down the final approach. This nervous habit scrubs off a surprising amount of speed,
which certainly won’t help the flare! Harness movements are great for making minor course
corrections smoothly."

The minimum suspended weights for all sizes is 1.0lbs / ft^2

hope this is helpful!

gary

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[brits17 0]

Hi,
With all due respect, I have not posted directly to you yet but I will. The only contribution I have made was my earlier post where I said that I learned quite a bit at 1.7 on the Velo and the WL in which you fly it is totally fine in my dz.com opinion.

Secondly, I'm finally understanding what you're asking. And I, as well as everyone here, do not see anything wrong with how you're approaching. Its totally fine and if it makes you happy, more power to ya
Now, the only thing I will say as far as an answer to your 'question' is that I think the only thing you may be missing is understanding how steep it dives in comparison to other canopies and having this reference close to the ground. Please don't beat me over the head with a bat here ;) You very well may, but I'm just saying that I learned a lot by slowly easing into front riser turns closer to the ground and it HELPED me understand the angles and characteristics of this particular parachute.
Again, as been stated by previous posters before me, this could help in a situation where you're in a tight spot or something doesn't go exactly as planned and you may or may not realize how much room you have to get yourself out of a corner at lets say 500 feet.

I'm glad Grant's out there to help ya, he's an excellent pilot. Take care and stay safe

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[ccowden 0]

Well, guess I am just an idiot then, cuz I don't get it. You make a post on a public forum and ask for comments and ask "What do you guys think?" Then you make coments like "I don't need your reassurance" when someone agrees with you, or "I don't care what you say" if they don't. Then you say you aren't trying to be rude when you insinuate I have "no clue" and "what you have heard about dz.com is true."

All I have done is try to give my opinions and I HAVE posted answers to your characteristics questions. I have a slightly different way of looking at things and you and another poster or two just completely dismiss my opinion as I am not worth listening too. That's a pretty bad attitude.

Next time you make a post asking for comments and what we think, please put a disclaimer that you only want comments that are exactly inline with your line of thinking. Forgive me for not being a mindreader and not knowing EXACTLY what you wanted to hear. I tried to help by entering into your discussion, that's all.

Good luck with your canopy flight and be safe.

[somethingbitme 0]

Chris I was not posting that to you! Geez, all i was trying to do was learn something about how my canopy flies, not learn how to do hook turns. I was mostly wanting to find out what *highly* experienced canopy pilots thought about hook turns or the lack thereof. Other than that, I really don't want to keep putting energy into this. Goodbye post.

[nicknitro71 0]

As already posted, you'd be better off with a conventional 9-cell like a Katana or X-fire at the same WL.

I also was flying an underloaded x-braced and it sucked.

X-braced canopies fly best at 2.0-2.4. Below this range you get all the cons w/out any of the pros.

To me it's like driving a 911 turbo at the speed limit: nothing wrong with it but what's the point???

Memento Audere Semper

903

[ccowden 0]

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I was mostly wanting to find out what *highly* experienced canopy pilots thought about hook turns or the lack thereof.

Then why the heck did you bother to post here, a public discussion forum, in the first place? And why did you address your post to "all" and say "I would really like to hear from people" and "what do you guys think?" and "Thanks everyone" ????

You could have saved us all alot of time and effort by posting "What do *highly* experienced canopy pilots think of hook turns or lack thereof? Please do not add your comments unless you are *highly* experienced."

Or better yet, not posted at all in a public discussion forum if you only wanted to ask certain *highly* experienced people, and are obviously not interested in what anyone other than Brian Germain or *highly* experienced canopy pilots think.

Next time you would like to post on a public discussion forum and get people's opinions and thoughts on something, please do so. But if you only want to hear from certain people and "don't care what others think," then don't waste our time!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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all i was trying to do was learn something about how my canopy flies, not learn how to do hook turns.

A cross-braced canopy is designed for fast high performance canopy flight. A competent canopy pilot can still fly them straight in, but that's not the way they were designed to be flown. It's a narrow, rigid wing aerodynamically superior to it's non cross-braced cousin. Coming straight in on a cross-braced canopy causes you to come in steeper and faster than a traditional design. But due to their aerodynamics, there's tons of lift to play with if you know how to use it. So these canopies can be flown straight it. Just know that they're like race cars. Race cars can be driven on the street. But race cars are designed for race tracks.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[marks 0]

Quote

Chris I was not posting that to you! Geez, all i was trying to do was learn something about how my canopy flies, not learn how to do hook turns. I was mostly wanting to find out what *highly* experienced canopy pilots thought about hook turns or the lack thereof. Other than that, I really don't want to keep putting energy into this. Goodbye post.

a velo will land just fine with straight in approaches at your wingloading. as im sure you already know.

a velo is a fairly highly elliptical crossbraced canopy. the crossbracing making the wing more efficient through the airflow. it has a fairly high amount of bottom end lift for the size/wingload. i/e you can load a smaller one up and still have the lift of a larger canopy. it has the tendency to spin violently when there is line twist. it is a great canopy. im sure you like it..

with that being said, i think all canopies should be crossbraced. it is just plainly more efficient. but also quite a bit more costly to manufacture.

[swoopster33 0]

PM sent.

[crewkeith 0]

a little damp?? i saw you get it wet here in colorado. and you said you would send one of your base videos too. im so heartbroken


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